Tour de France Tour de France 2023, stage 5: Pau - Laruns, 162.7k

[ChewbaccaDefense]

Bernard Hinault: "Hold my beer".

And my fist!

 

[RobertCrawley]

And my fist!

They had great jerseys back in those days.

 

[johnymax]

Seems like Pidcock didn't pace the last climb perfectly. He followed Kuss tempo longer then Skjelmose and Gaudu but were then past by both at the top by some margin. Maybe try to ride a bit smarter, like Skjelmose?

He has done that several times now. Among the last riders to be dropped, only to completely explode later and lose a lot of time.

 

[Boehmand]

Aksel Sandemose aint a Norwegian author, he is born and raised in Denmark and also died in Denmark, so with an aspect of semantic. you can refer to him as a Danish/Norwegian writer. .
Aksel Sandemose "born Axel Nielsen in Nykøbing Mors Denmark in 1899" and died 1965 at Copenhagen Denmark..
His mom was from Norway and moved to Denmark, and his father Danish and Aksel moved there (Norway) as an adult at the age of 32 but kept his Danish nationality, and he also lived in Sweden from 1941 to 1945.. so a very Scandinavian writer of danish heritage & citizenship.
but I reckon your Danish from your name, so you can sum-up here.

Aksel Sandemose.

Aksel Sandemose - Wikipedia, den frie encyklopædi

da.wikipedia.org

Jantelov

Janteloven - Wikipedia, den frie encyklopædi

da.wikipedia.org

Scandinavians tend to behave very introverted.

Why Are Scandinavians Introverted? - Scandinavia Facts

Scandinavians are known for many things, including their intelligence, independence, and low levels of corruption. However, they are also considered introverted compared to people from other nations. Scandinavians seem introverted

scandinaviafacts.com

Norway

What Exactly is Janteloven? Norway's Unspoken Social Norms

Janteloven (the law of Jante) is a social code in Norway that helps to explain why Norwegians act the way they do, and why they look down on bragging.

www.lifeinnorway.net

Though Jonas Vingegaard & Trine Hansen..haven't been silent, about the fact that they aren't crazy about attention and even hide indoors in their home in "Glyngøre" after TdF-win and Jonas Vingegaard deleted his Instagram as "waste of time" and the whole aspect of "Netflix" was a weird experience to be on camera that much, and he dont wanna be a Netflix star.

Vingegaard vil ikke være Netflix-stjerne: 'Men det er nok det, der kommer til at ske'

Jonas Vingegaard kører lørdag det prestigefyldte endagsløb Lombardiet Rundt.

www.dr.dk

- Some people crave a camera and being famous, and some don't & dislike the attention.. Jonas Vingegaard seems quite introverted.

- but maybe that is also a good move to say as little as possible, as the media loves to push scandals & take things out of context to rally eyebrows & clicks.
Not least last year' after he won Tour de France, and stated that he dedicated his win to his two girls. (aka his fiance Trine Marie Hansen & his infant newly born girl)
Certain rancid media pushed that, as he had like an adult sexual relationship with "two girls", not least in the UK media "Guardian", that later had to excuse their article and clarify they "misunderstood" and Vingegaard didn't have such a relationship with this other girl, that was his newly born infant girl.

British newspaper's correction after stating Vingegaard had "two girlfriends"

The Guardian newspaper has published this incredible clarification about Tour winner Jonas Vingegaard

www.stickybottle.com

Dude, it was a joke

 

[HelloDolly]

Oi mate don't be too harsh. People forget how good was Landa in 2015-17 and how many opportunities he lost because of luck. That's why he gets chances. He was strong enough to won Giro 2015, 2016, 2017 and 2017 TDF. also 2021 Giro. And he was held back in each of those. So his mythos and his legend is based on the potential to achieve what could have been. If life was fair landa would be multiple gt winner

You could say that about alot of riders who shoulda, woulda, coulda have won
Landa threw away his chances by joining INEOS and riding for Froome and has had bad luck but lots of other riders have had bad luck ...Tibo PInot in 2019 for instance or Nairo Quintana, Geraint Thomas ...its cycling but one cannot keep riding GC based on past glories

 

[RedheadDane]

Geraint Thomas ...its cycling but one cannot keep riding GC based on past glories

Well... Thomas kinda rode GC this year.

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

Well... Thomas kinda rode GC this year.

And he did kinda good...

"The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated" - Mark Twain

 

[Big Doopie]

What do you mean? The winner lost to Skjelmose in Tour de Suisse...

Riiiiight because coming off of Covid racing against riders well rested and coming directly from altitude training is no excuse for losing by a few seconds and not being at their best, but having a few months to get over a wrist injury should excuse any lack of form… bwahaha.

Btw I actually think Pog may underperform because what the wrist issue did to his prep. And I believe it is a valid excuse. But those of u who agree with that but then say Remco was at top shape in Swiss is so disingenuous it’s laughable.

Point is both Hindley and Carlos Rodriguez appear to be holding their own. But Remco crushed them at the Vuelta (despite a nasty crash) and all the talk was that it was such a weak field. I think we will find that is not true. And today is just the start of that evidence.

Cheers.

 

[Netserk]

Hindley was not a factor in the Vuelta last year and he was nowhere near his Giro level.

 

[dobrien]

And my fist!

This is an all time classic!!

 

[dobrien]

They had great jerseys back in those days.

They really did.

 

[Gratemans]

I lurked here as many regaled in his mimicking of WvA. And now this.

I find it odd that so many enjoyed one rider ridiculing another. It does appear that WvA may not be well-liked. He certainly seems somewhat grouchy. But let’s just say “another” rider did these things, would so many people think it was so hilarious. I doubt it.

The TDF is not necessarily over. And Pog may yet win his third but I really find it hard to warm to him.

He is the best all around cyclist at the moment.

However:

1. How can one support THAT team: UAE?
2. The above ridiculing of opponents.
3. Everything has come so easy for him. The wrist issue, (certainly less damaging than other riders have had to deal with, and who are expected to rebound IMMEDIATELY!), is his very first challenge to deal with. Let’s see how he does.

For all his amazing successes, he leaves me just a bit cold.

Same here. I thought that was a pretty moronic and disrespectful thing to do. Sprinters get pissed off when they don't win, they do it all the time. This wasn't weird or unusual, I didn't see a reason to mock him.
And I'm not even a Van Aert fan. Nothing against him either. Very impressive in the Tour, but frustrating to watch certain decisions he makes in the classics.

I also don't really buy the whole persona Pogacar is trying to put across. That whole "look at me not taking it all too serious and having a lot of fun!" thing seems a bit artificial. Sagan I believed, Pogacar not so much. That's based on nothing but a gut feeling though.

Contest: Who was/is the most unlikable Tour champion?

That's not even a contest is it?
I don't even mind the whole clinic thing, it's the 'destroying peoples livelihoods and even lives for your own gain'-thing I have quite a few issues with.
And him just being an all round douche.

 

[HelloDolly]

Well... Thomas kinda rode GC this year.

I was making 2 points in the one sentence ...Geraint Thomas has had bad luck and Landa cant continue too ride GC based on past glories

Stupid me for expecting people to get that

 

[armchairclimber]

Same here. I thought that was a pretty moronic and disrespectful thing to do. Sprinters get pissed off when they don't win, they do it all the time. This wasn't weird or unusual, I didn't see a reason to mock him.
And I'm not even a Van Aert fan. Nothing against him either. Very impressive in the Tour, but frustrating to watch certain decisions he makes in the classics.

I also don't really buy the whole persona Pogacar is trying to put across. That whole "look at me not taking it all too serious and having a lot of fun!" thing seems a bit artificial. Sagan I believed, Pogacar not so much. That's based on nothing but a gut feeling though.


That's not even a contest is it?
I don't even mind the whole clinic thing, it's the 'destroying peoples livelihoods and even lives for your own gain'-thing I have quite a few issues with.
And him just being an all round douche.

Cameras/media is my job.
He was clearly having a giggle with his team mate and probably not even thinking about the camera, because they are ever present and we, the media, know that people faced with cameras all the time, start to lose their guard.

Also what is going on here is the building of a narrative. Think Prost/Senna. If you don't work in that environment, you don't se how the stories are built.

 

[Gratemans]

I'll reluctantly concede to your first point: he might not have realised there were cameras. Still, a sprinter being angry at losing a sprint: it happens at every single sprint stage. But yeah, among team mates you might make fun of it.

Your second point, not so much. No offense, but you might be overconfident in the media's ability to create a narrative that actual cycling enthousiasts will swallow as the truth. Sure, you'll convince the average Susan watching that Netflix thingy, but not so much the people that have been following cycling for decades. There is a big battle on the road, not behind the scenes imo.

 

[Gratemans]

Anyway, has this Tour delivered so far or what? Yes, yesterday might have been one of the lamest stages ever, a true snoosefest where even attackers couldn't really be bothered, but the rest of em were pretty great.

 

[Cookster15]

I know the 'experts'on here have been undervaluing Jai Hindly for awhile but great race today by him . he is smart. I had money on him for the podium

Its still such a log way to going in the Tour who knows how fortunes may be reversed between Vinge and Pog

Pog is certainly not race fit and will get better
Vinge has been flying for awhile and may lose steam

But I am not sure JV did a good thing today by underestimating Jai Hindley.

Both Rodriquez and Skjelmose are riding very well . If I were INEOS I'd buy Skjelmose

​

You do a good job of putting Hindley’s ride today into context - it was huge. Elsewhere I read that Vingegaard didn’t make much dent in his lead. And here is food for thought - when Hindley won the Giro he wasn’t outstanding early in that race. Even when he won on Blockhaus it wasn’t really convincing. If Hindley can build on this it could get interesting for him and give JV something else to worry about 🙂

 

[xo 1]

Yes, according to Strava even Pidcock was 8sec faster than 2020 Pogacar...

This is the central take away for me. Pogi is going well (particularly given his interrupted prep), but in 2022 and 2023 Jonas is able to hit a gear that is not in Pogi's range. It will be interesting to see if Hindley has that gear.

 

[yaco]

For the critisism of Mads Pedersen - according to an article in the newspaper he has just told about todays tactics.

• Help Ciccione get in the break and pull
• Participate in the sprint (he did as WVA attacked)
• Was told to stay in the break, to get the other teams to work in the break
• Bring water and food to Skjelmose when you go through the field

All done according to Mads and he did as the team asked (as i predicted earlier in this thread). His reaction is because a former board member of the Danish Cycle union criticed his moves today. Which they apparently where not.

Peterson's biggest issue as I previously pointed out is that he is riding four consecutive GT's which will make it difficult for him to be much of a factor in this edition of the TDF.

 

[Big Doopie]

Hindley was not a factor in the Vuelta last year and he was nowhere near his Giro level.

Agreed 100%.

But then y does the poster (and many others) judge Remco’s TDS perf as if it was his best when it so clearly was not. It was nowhere close to his Vuelta or pre-Covid Giro.

I still stand by the fact that Remco is the only rider that is judged on EVERY performance as if it must have been his absolute ceiling. Every other rider is consistently (and accurately!) allowed to have races (even full GTs) where they are not at “peak”.

“Peak Hindley” this, “Peak Hindley” that. Well sure.

“Peak Remco” would have won the TDS. And, if so, it is fair to say that “Peak Remco” would likely have been ahead of the skjelmose group…

“Peak Remco”, babies!!

 

[Volderke]

Pogi was alone a couple of minutes before he got dropped. The climb was steep and he was in the wheel of Jonas. He didn’t cover any attacks here. No extra helper could’ve made a difference there.

Pogi got caught eventually by a group with Yates. The less worked over Yates was, the sooner pog would have had his company, the better the chase. Still too hard to understand? It’s the effort of a very hard race that created the best circumstances for Vingegaards attack: the moment Kuss drilled it, the group was down to a handful. In any other scenario than a big strong break with Jumbos, there would be more (UAE) riders later on the climb in the favorite’s group (as those wouldn’t have been spent, either by pulling or by the high rhythm), and less of a gap on the top, and a better chance to get things organized (or simply no attack at all on the climb, if Vingegaard would have seen pog was far from isolated on the last climb).

Disclaimer: I still believe WvA’s first objective was his own bid for glory, and if that didn’t work, help out the team, preferably connecting after the top, and if that didn’t work, help where possible on the climb. Any of these scenarios would always be advantageous for Vingegaard, and so it proved to be: Wva was all too eager to show his strength, UAE was under a lot of pressure, and in the end, after only 5 days of racing, the first cracks in pog’s resistance have been laid bare.

 

[Scarponi]

Riiiiight because coming off of Covid racing against riders well rested and coming directly from altitude training is no excuse for losing by a few seconds and not being at their best, but having a few months to get over a wrist injury should excuse any lack of form… bwahaha.

Btw I actually think Pog may underperform because what the wrist issue did to his prep. And I believe it is a valid excuse. But those of u who agree with that but then say Remco was at top shape in Swiss is so disingenuous it’s laughable.

Point is both Hindley and Carlos Rodriguez appear to be holding their own. But Remco crushed them at the Vuelta (despite a nasty crash) and all the talk was that it was such a weak field. I think we will find that is not true. And today is just the start of that evidence.

Cheers.

Agree with everything but Hindley was on his 2nd GT in a year. Haven’t seen them peak vs peak

 

[RedheadDane]

Peterson's biggest issue as I previously pointed out is that he is riding four consecutive GT's which will make it difficult for him to be much of a factor in this edition of the TDF.

That's some Ilmaestro99-level spelling.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

Pogi got caught eventually by a group with Yates. The less worked over Yates was, the sooner pog would have had his company, the better the chase. Still too hard to understand? It’s the effort of a very hard race that created the best circumstances for Vingegaards attack: the moment Kuss drilled it, the group was down to a handful. In any other scenario than a big strong break with Jumbos, there would be more (UAE) riders later on the climb in the favorite’s group (as those wouldn’t have been spent, either by pulling or by the high rhythm), and less of a gap on the top, and a better chance to get things organized (or simply no attack at all on the climb, if Vingegaard would have seen pog was far from isolated on the last climb).

I love it when people step upon the high horse and ask why things are hard to understand.

The difference between Vingegaard and Pogacar was massive when Vingegaard could put 36 seconds in about 1,5 km of climbing (+ increasing the gap on the plateau before the downhill and increasing downhill and flat to finish). With such a massive difference after a hard race it would’ve likely been a significant difference with a slightly slower race. Say Pog had lost 15-25s instead of 35s and Yates had been around 10s behind Pog instead of 20-25s. In theory that looks like a better scenario for UAE.

But then the problem is that if UAE had gone slower, then Vingegaard would have had both Benoot and WVA waiting on the top. And that would’ve probably made the gap between Vingegaard and Pogacar the same or even bigger than it was today.

My whole point is: Pogacar wasn’t yesterday enough to keep up with Vingegaard.

Majka staying with him two minutes more or even Yates staying with Pog the whole climb wouldn’t make Pogacar being able to stay with Jonas. That’s what I’ve been saying when I’ve said this isn’t about tactics, but about pure strength difference between them. As you use to say, is that so hard to understand?

And yes it was a hard race, but probably nothing special really. Laengen did the whole Soudet, the peloton never caught the break and UAE had good numbers and there was plenty of team mates for Pog until the steep part. UAE didn’t loose because tactics or team weakness. UAE lost because Jonas was much stronger. Claiming it’s about the team and tactics is a distraction to the reality.

 

[gunara]

Missed another great stage, am I Gigs or what... Caught the replay without knowing the result, and wow, that's utter domination right there.

Holy tactics won't save this Tour from Vinge's/Kuss' wrath, it would take a great flood or something to alter the result, other than a personal mishap of course.

Can PH hang on to at least second place? Will Pog's improvement be enough to make him the best of the rests? Will we have a likeable Tour winner?

I just hope we will still have enjoyable Tour after the great start, despite this early display of untouchability.