Tour de France Tour de France 2023, stage 5: Pau - Laruns, 162.7k

[Cookster15]

Sure. Main issue for me is Gianetti.

We can also discuss the merits of any sponsorship from a middle eastern oil state, but I do not want to go there.

But Gianetti is a serious problem for me.

Got it, yes there is the thread in the Clinic. On UAE, again this is opinion but it doesn't worry me.

 

[Sciatic]

If you've ever ridden around Durango, CO you'd understand 😉

cattle crossings?

 

[Big Doopie]

Got it, yes there is the thread in the Clinic. On UAE, again this is opinion but it doesn't worry me.

Not really. Look up Gianetti’s actual career and what he is KNOWN to have done. Facts.

I am not saying he is doing anything bad NOW. Or accusing Pog of ANYTHING. I simply cannot support the ASSOCIATION. Because it hurts the sport. Like Wiggins and Cav going on The Move and being all pals with Armstrong. Are they freaking tone deaf!? Not accusing either of them of anything. But they are either really stupid or taking us fans for a ride. Just like Phil Liggett - a despicable talent-free humanoid.

 

[Red Rick]

1. 2022 Tour wasn't a fluke.
2. 2022 Giro wasn't a fluke, though I didn't catch much live so Hindleys MB time was worse than I thought. That said, I think he was very strong in the finale, losing much less time on his own than you'd expect.
3. Pogacar may push 2022 numbers but when everyone improves it's not good enough. When Kuss on his own puts you on the limit that hard after having done the Giro, you're not good enough. Getting caught by the bunch behind must have been painful

 

[Volderke]

I struggle to see any big relevance that Pogacar was isolated when he was sitting on the wheel of Jonas in a 10% section. Having Yates there as well wouldn't help Pogacar following Jonas.

Having Yates there would've only helped limiting the losses, maybe it could've been 45s instead of a minute. And that wouldn't matter in the grand scheme, because it's not about seconds here and there, the big issue is the big difference in strength between them at the moment.

That big difference in strength can be only laid bare by a strong attack after a hard race.
Not by a strong attack after a slow race.
Is that so hard to understand?

Ps: I’m pretty sure Wva was allowed to go for stage victory rather than waiting for Vingegaard (similar to Ventoux stage) if he survived. So in a way, selfish, but they probably figured out that all scenarios with Wva (or other jumbos) putting pressure on uae would be beneficial for testing pog and his team.

 

[RobertCrawley]

Sure. Main issue for me is Gianetti.

We can also discuss the merits of any sponsorship from a middle eastern oil state, but I do not want to go there.

But Gianetti is a serious problem for me.

It's called "sportswashing."

Human rights in the United Arab Emirates - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[RobertCrawley]

That big difference in strength can be only laid bare by a strong attack after a hard race.
Not by a strong attack after a slow race.
Is that so hard to understand?

Ps: I’m pretty sure Wva was allowed to go for stage victory rather than waiting for Vingegaard (similar to Ventoux stage) if he survived. So in a way, selfish, but they probably figured out that all scenarios with Wva (or other jumbos) putting pressure on uae would be beneficial for testing pog and his team.

Yep. A teammate can make all the difference. He can give you water, food, a wheel to follow and break a little wind, and a pal to keep your spirits up. That could be the difference between win and lose.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

That big difference in strength can be only laid bare by a strong attack after a hard race.
Not by a strong attack after a slow race.
Is that so hard to understand?

It would be easy to understand that if you had written it and not talk about what value more team mates would’ve had in what was the steep section of the climb….

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

Yep. A teammate can make all the difference. He can give you water, food, a wheel to follow and break a little wind, and a pal to keep your spirits up. That could be the difference between win and lose.

Pogi was alone a couple of minutes before he got dropped. The climb was steep and he was in the wheel of Jonas. He didn’t cover any attacks here. No extra helper could’ve made a difference there.

 

[Martinstranger]

For the critisism of Mads Pedersen - according to an article in the newspaper he has just told about todays tactics.

• Help Ciccione get in the break and pull
• Participate in the sprint (he did as WVA attacked)
• Was told to stay in the break, to get the other teams to work in the break
• Bring water and food to Skjelmose when you go through the field

All done according to Mads and he did as the team asked (as i predicted earlier in this thread). His reaction is because a former board member of the Danish Cycle union criticed his moves today. Which they apparently where not.

 

[RobertCrawley]

Pogi was alone a couple of minutes before he got dropped. The climb was steep and he was in the wheel of Jonas. He didn’t cover any attacks here. No extra helper could’ve made a difference there.

Completely disagree. Yes, Pog was going to lose some time today, But we've seen many, many times when a teammate turns himself inside out to help his GC contender minimize the losses on a climb. And of course a teammate would have been invaluable on the run into Laruns to minimize the time loss.

 

[Casper96]

Pogi was alone a couple of minutes before he got dropped. The climb was steep and he was in the wheel of Jonas. He didn’t cover any attacks here. No extra helper could’ve made a difference there.

The lack of a helper might have made Vingegaard confident enough to try that attack. From what he said, he almost seemed surprised that his first attack worked as well as it did.

 

[RobertCrawley]

The lack of a helper might have made Vingegaard confident enough to try that attack. From what he said, he almost seemed surprised that his first attack worked as well as it did.

Yes, isolate and attack. Then leave a cattle-guard jumping guy to suck on your wheel the rest of the day. No fun.

 

[Divergence]

Sure. Main issue for me is Gianetti.

We can also discuss the merits of any sponsorship from a middle eastern oil state, but I do not want to go there.

But Gianetti is a serious problem for me.

To me it is vice versa. Actually Gianetti is not an issue at all. But the oil country with serious human rights and environmental problems is a big no no. The same goes with Bahrain to a lesser extent.
Regarding the most disliked rider I guess it changes with time for me. I used to really dislike Froome, but now I kinda want to see him do well. Pog, Vingo and WvA are not likable at the moment along with Wright (mostly because of him crashing Rog and then playing innocent).
Most likable definitely Rog.

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

I lurked here as many regaled in his mimicking of WvA. And now this.

I find it odd that so many enjoyed one rider ridiculing another. It does appear that WvA may not be well-liked. He certainly seems somewhat grouchy. But let’s just say “another” rider did these things, would so many people think it was so hilarious. I doubt it.

The TDF is not necessarily over. And Pog may yet win his third but I really find it hard to warm to him.

He is the best all around cyclist at the moment.

However:

1. How can one support THAT team: UAE?
2. The above ridiculing of opponents.
3. Everything has come so easy for him. The wrist issue, (certainly less damaging than other riders have had to deal with, and who are expected to rebound IMMEDIATELY!), is his very first challenge to deal with. Let’s see how he does.

For all his amazing successes, he leaves me just a bit cold.

He and MvDP both did their little school boy giggling and talking during E3, where it was like watching two stupid high school boys, acting like two stupid high school boys.

It's clear that Pog is still sore in the taint about Wout dropping him in the TdF, last year. He loves to act like a clown, because he is a clown, and yes, Supporting UAE is supporting forced subjugation of women and the outlawing if same sex relationships. Yay....I guess...

I loved watching him get dropped today...lets hope for more of the same in the next two and a half weeks.

 

[GroupDK]

I quite enjoy you use a "theory" invented by a Norwegian author, presented by a Swedish actor, to explain a Danish rider

Aksel Sandemose aint a Norwegian author, he is born and raised in Denmark and also died in Denmark, so with an aspect of semantic. you can refer to him as a Danish/Norwegian writer. .
Aksel Sandemose "born Axel Nielsen in Nykøbing Mors Denmark in 1899" and died 1965 at Copenhagen Denmark..
His mom was from Norway and moved to Denmark, and his father Danish and Aksel moved there (Norway) as an adult at the age of 32 but kept his Danish nationality, and he also lived in Sweden from 1941 to 1945.. so a very Scandinavian writer of danish heritage & citizenship.
but I reckon your Danish from your name, so you can sum-up here.

Aksel Sandemose.

Aksel Sandemose - Wikipedia, den frie encyklopædi

da.wikipedia.org

Jantelov

Janteloven - Wikipedia, den frie encyklopædi

da.wikipedia.org

Scandinavians tend to behave very introverted.

Why Are Scandinavians Introverted? - Scandinavia Facts

Scandinavians are known for many things, including their intelligence, independence, and low levels of corruption. However, they are also considered introverted compared to people from other nations. Scandinavians seem introverted

scandinaviafacts.com

Norway

What Exactly is Janteloven? Norway's Unspoken Social Norms

Janteloven (the law of Jante) is a social code in Norway that helps to explain why Norwegians act the way they do, and why they look down on bragging.

www.lifeinnorway.net

Though Jonas Vingegaard & Trine Hansen..haven't been silent, about the fact that they aren't crazy about attention and even hide indoors in their home in "Glyngøre" after TdF-win and Jonas Vingegaard deleted his Instagram as "waste of time" and the whole aspect of "Netflix" was a weird experience to be on camera that much, and he dont wanna be a Netflix star.

Vingegaard vil ikke være Netflix-stjerne: 'Men det er nok det, der kommer til at ske'

Jonas Vingegaard kører lørdag det prestigefyldte endagsløb Lombardiet Rundt.

www.dr.dk

- Some people crave a camera and being famous, and some don't & dislike the attention.. Jonas Vingegaard seems quite introverted.

- but maybe that is also a good move to say as little as possible, as the media loves to push scandals & take things out of context to rally eyebrows & clicks.
Not least last year' after he won Tour de France, and stated that he dedicated his win to his two girls. (aka his fiance Trine Marie Hansen & his infant newly born girl)
Certain rancid media pushed that, as he had like an adult sexual relationship with "two girls", not least in the UK media "Guardian", that later had to excuse their article and clarify they "misunderstood" and Vingegaard didn't have such a relationship with this other girl, that was his newly born infant girl.

British newspaper's correction after stating Vingegaard had "two girlfriends"

The Guardian newspaper has published this incredible clarification about Tour winner Jonas Vingegaard

www.stickybottle.com

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

Contest: Who was/is the most unlikable Tour champion?

Lance Armstrong, by some distance...wait, you said "Tour champion"...mmm...The Badger

 

[RedheadDane]

not least last year after he won the yellow in TdF, and stated that he dedicated his win to his two girls. (aka his fiance Trine Marie Hansen & his infant newly born girl)

I think we have different definitions of "newly born"...

 

[Samu Cuenca]

I think we have different definitions of "newly born"...

He'll have 500 girls before he retires.

 

[RedheadDane]

He'll have 500 girls before he retires.

You're saying there was a secret baby last year? And another one this year? Maybe that was the "unforeseen family circumstances" before P-N.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

The most overrated rider of the decade. And he gets chance after chance after chance...with a full squad dedicated to him.

At least now Bilbao, Mohorič, Poels, Haig... should go for stage wins hopefully.

Oi mate don't be too harsh. People forget how good was Landa in 2015-17 and how many opportunities he lost because of luck. That's why he gets chances. He was strong enough to won Giro 2015, 2016, 2017 and 2017 TDF. also 2021 Giro. And he was held back in each of those. So his mythos and his legend is based on the potential to achieve what could have been. If life was fair landa would be multiple gt winner

 

[dobrien]

That’s opening a can of worms. And should likely be it’s own thread.

But IMO:

Most likable: Lemond (though Thevenet comes to mind if you see him interviewed since he retired - honestly humble and appealing).

Most unlikable: Armstrong hands down.

Bernard Hinault: "Hold my beer".

 

[Samu Cuenca]

You're saying there was a secret baby last year? And another one this year? Maybe that was the "unforeseen family circumstances" before P-N.

He has a girl in every port.

 

[johnymax]

One can only hope. Speaking of “nice”, Carlos is the man!

Last year’s Vuelta top ten not looking too shabby these days…

What do you mean? The winner lost to Skjelmose in Tour de Suisse...

 

[HelloDolly]

I know the 'experts'on here have been undervaluing Jai Hindly for awhile but great race today by him . he is smart. I had money on him for the podium

Its still such a log way to going in the Tour who knows how fortunes may be reversed between Vinge and Pog

Pog is certainly not race fit and will get better
Vinge has been flying for awhile and may lose steam

But I am not sure JV did a good thing today by underestimating Jai Hindley.

Both Rodriquez and Skjelmose are riding very well . If I were INEOS I'd buy Skjelmose

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