Tour de France Tour de France 2023, stage 5: Pau - Laruns, 162.7k

[Casper96]

A tactical masterclass from WvA. For those still wondering what his value is:

1. He forced the break of the day;
2. He had some decent GC guys / climbers in the group, so by pushing very hard, he single-handedly forced UAE, who had no one in the break, to decimate half of their team;
3. When his own bid for glory was gone, he forced the pace in the front group, helping his team to drop all UAE riders, so the moment pogacar was dropped, he didn’t have any team mates.

So again, while people’s memory is still fresh, WvA was the key rider that contributed significantly to Vingegaard’s successful attack and the amount of time that was ultimately gained.

This is an interesting analysis, but still got to say that Vingegaard and Sepp were both more important than WVA today. At least he made and interesting day even more interesting.

 

[RobertCrawley]

One sad thing today is that the peloton was not interested in allowing Neilson Powless (who is extraordinarily nice) to be in the breakaway. He loses the dots, but maybe he gets them back later. And that would be nice.

 

[Boehmand]

true, and you can't blame Pogacar because his numbers are what they should be.

Unless Vingegaard has a breakdown/bad day, it will be very hard to get back time on him. (Maybe he can try a Flandis'ke..)

As said earlier, I am holding my breath for Courchevel and Fellering, because I think a lot of the GC riders have timed their peak earlier this year, because the front of the race has a lot of climbs.

Vingegaard may lose his mojo week 3, and Pogacar may come to life.

History doesn't support that, restitution is a key element to Vingegaard being a great GC rider, but as said - because of the route design - it remains to be seen if it is the case this year.

 

[Rollthedice]

And they said that vingegaard was a boring rider.

He was until he realized he is stronger than everybody.

 

[Nick2413]

As said earlier, I am holding my breath for Courchevel and Fellering, because I think a lot of the GC riders have timed their peak earlier this year, because the front of the race has a lot of climbs.

Vingegaard may lose his mojo week 3, and Pogacar may come to life.

History doesn't support that, restitution is a key element to Vingegaard being a great GC rider, but as said - because of the route design - it remains to be seen if it is the case this year.

Has Vingegaard ever had a bad day as a GC leader?

 

[Lequack]

How is it over?

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Has Vingegaard ever had a bad day as a GC leader?

Depends on whether you define this as GTs only and designated leader at the start only. If you look at all leadership in stage races, he had a bad day on Romme in 2021 and a bad day in P-N this year. However, the more accurate answer IMO is, No.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Per Lantern Rouge, there was a tailwind on the climb. I'm assuming they factored that into the power calculations. Here is what they say:

• Vingegaard's best climbing performance in a GT of all time
• Very close to Contador in Verbier, but not quite on that level
• Not quite on the level of Roglic and Remco on Lo Port, but this was obviously in tougher context

Jonas Vingegaard Skyrockets on Marie Blanque | Tour de France 2023 Stage 5 - Lanterne Rouge

Jonas Vingegaard annihilated his competition on the steep gradienst of the Marie Blanque climb, putting over a minute into his closest rival before the race, Tadej Pogačar. Jai Hindley won the stage from the breakaway and earnt the leader's jersey, with a masterclass from Bora-Hansgrohe.

lanternerouge.com

 

[GroupDK]

And they said that vingegaard was a boring rider.

I dont think people see Vingegaard as a boring rider, quite the contrary.. often find him entertaining and willing to attack and reach for the gain and go out on a limp.
Though I reckon many see him as an introvert (= boring restricted person), as he doesn't have that flaming gesticulating attitude, that you often see in fx East Europe or Southern Europe where you have your feelings on the sleeve & tends to be very visual in your expressions and will gladly show anger or content by body language
but I reckon some of that is culture and some personality, though many Danes and Scandinavians in general are not that extrovert & flamboyant.
Also recalled that another Dane Christian Eriksen got some heat from Conte, because of that "restricted" attitude in 2020/21 when Eriksen & Inter won Seria A, simply because he didn't have that Italian temper on the pitch..

Maybe its culture, maybe its this Danish-jantelov "law of jante" that some Scandinavians puts value to (- don't front your success, be humble & grateful and don't think your that special) +27s

View: https://youtu.be/FhdcWYmFdX4?t=27

 

[Big Doopie]

Now that the tour is over, what will happen in the Vuelta?

Ayuso must be a mixed bag of emotions.

Could hurt him at Vuelta.

Could have given him more of a real future now at UAE.

 

[Mayomaniac]

I dont think people see Vingegaard as a boring rider, quite the contrary.. often find him entertaining and willing to attack and reach for the gain and go out on a limp.
Though I reckon many see him as an introvert (= boring restricted person), as he doesn't have that flaming gesticulating attitude, that you often see in fx east europe or Southern Europe where you have your feelings on the sleeve and very visual in your expressions and will gladly show anger or content by bodylanguage
but I reckon some of that is culture and some personality, though many Danes and Scandinavians in general are not that extrovert & flamboyant.
also recalled that another Dane Christian Eriksen got some heat from Conte, because of that "restricted" attitude in 2020/21 when Eriksen & Inter won Seria A, simply because he didnt have that Italian temper on the pitch..

Maybe its culture, maybe its this Danish "law of jante" that some Scandinavians puts value to (- don't front your success, be humble & grateful and don't think your that special) +27s

View: https://youtu.be/FhdcWYmFdX4?t=27

Tbf, Conte is also an unlikeable guy, so that's probably no Eriksen's fault...

 

[Trofonios]

Honestly, even if Pog improves during the tour, which is not certain, it is hard to see him actually drop Vingegaard. In the tour we haven't seen that since stage 9 2021. Vingegaard has however dropped Pog 4 times since then.
Vingegaard could have a bad day of course, but he seems to be very consistent.

Afraid we could see Vingegaard putting more time in to Pog tomorrow and stage 9.

 

[Scarponi]

Have to hope Hindley doesn’t pay for his efforts today and gets absolutely torn up by Vinge tomorrow

 

[Cookster15]

Congrats to Jai Hindley and Bora, great to see them back. Interesting they are saying it wasn't planned? Of course, well done to Vingegaard and JV. After all the early Tour drama with WvA it looks like he was still the great teammate today?

And so much for many of our predictions that either a) Marie Blanque was not long or high enough and too far from the finish, b) nothing would happen and c) that Pogacar could match Vingegaard today and the real threat was stage 17.

I hope Pog can bounce back but sadly the prospects for the rest of the Tour is now a little uninspiring. Best I can hope for is Hindley can recover for tomorrow as its looking like a cakewalk.

 

[RobertCrawley]

Have to hope Hindley doesn’t pay for his efforts today and gets absolutely torn up by Vinge tomorrow

Great point. Tour champions are not only superhuman riders, they are also athletes with the superhuman ability to recover. Does peak Jai Hindley have that? His Giro win suggests yes, but this is the TdF.

 

[Skijumper Roglic fan]

Have to hope Hindley doesn’t pay for his efforts today and gets absolutely torn up by Vinge tomorrow

No danger, I think… As a Giro winner, he‘s super experienced, and recovers perfectly. Hindley is probably in best shape ever, and might smell GC victory now. Perfect situation for him…

 

[Trofonios]

Many have said that 20 minutes climbs are Pog's real strenght.
I think this is correct in some sense but when the gradient is consistently 10 % and above weight becomes more of a factor and Vingegaard is of course several kilos lighter than Pog.

I was not surprised that TJV let Kuss set a high pace on Blanque, he can be incredibly strong on steep gradients.
Think Vingegaard knew that if he pushes 6.8-6.9 watts/kg on the climb Pog will eventually have a hard time following.
This probably doesn't bode well for Pog on Puy de Dome.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

Without Wva, UAE would have more riders on the last climb and more chance of a rider close to Pogacar, if the same scenario (dropped by Vingegaard) happened.

I don't think more riders would've mattered at all. Yates was never working and I don't see how keeping Laengen and Bjerg at the bottom of the last climb instead of losing them 5-10 km earlier would've mattered at all to make Yates be closer to Pogacar at the top.

Majka was there until the really steep part started and Yates there until Kuss really turned it on. I can't see any realistic scenario where Majka would survive that, Yates had ridden the whole stage in Pogacars wheel.

It wasn't about tactics, it was all about Vingegaard being much stronger.

 

[Divergence]

A tactical masterclass from WvA. For those still wondering what his value is:

1. He forced the break of the day;
2. He had some decent GC guys / climbers in the group, so by pushing very hard, he single-handedly forced UAE, who had no one in the break, to decimate half of their team;
3. When his own bid for glory was gone, he forced the pace in the front group, helping his team to drop all UAE riders, so the moment pogacar was dropped, he didn’t have any team mates.

So again, while people’s memory is still fresh, WvA was the key rider that contributed significantly to Vingegaard’s successful attack and the amount of time that was ultimately gained.

Wout wanted the win today and was fine with pulling a rival for the yellow jersey away from his leader. It is both pretty selfish and pretty bad tactics. On top of that he was not even 10th best out of that group for the stage... JV would have been better off these 5 stages with 7 riders and no Wout. Maybe he will do something useful for the team in the stages to come.
The only saving grace for JV was that UAE was pulling the peloton. They should have forced the favorite, i.e., JV to ride to not lose the race but I guess Pog is always overconfident (most of the time rightly so) and cannot make good tactical decisions.

 

[Cookster15]

No danger, I think… As a Giro winner, he‘s super experienced, and recovers perfectly. Hindley is probably in best shape ever, and might smell GC victory now. Perfect situation for him…

I hope you are right.

 

[Big Doopie]

Pogacar will now have felt he shouldn’t make jokes about Wva not having the legs (yesterday he said this after the sprint with Philipsen).

I lurked here as many regaled in his mimicking of WvA. And now this.

I find it odd that so many enjoyed one rider ridiculing another. It does appear that WvA may not be well-liked. He certainly seems somewhat grouchy. But let’s just say “another” rider did these things, would so many people think it was so hilarious. I doubt it.

The TDF is not necessarily over. And Pog may yet win his third but I really find it hard to warm to him.

He is the best all around cyclist at the moment.

However:

1. How can one support THAT team: UAE?
2. The above ridiculing of opponents.
3. Everything has come so easy for him. The wrist issue, (certainly less damaging than other riders have had to deal with, and who are expected to rebound IMMEDIATELY!), is his very first challenge to deal with. Let’s see how he does.

For all his amazing successes, he leaves me just a bit cold.

 

[KZD]

I watched the stage now.

First of all, great win for Jai Hindley. He absolutely deserves the yellow jersey that he will wear tomorrow.

Very good stage from Felix Gall too, I wrote in the KOM thread that he would be really dangerous for that jersey and he didn't disappoint today. Ciccone and Buchmann really strong too.

As for Vingegård, he is an absolute beast, best climber in the world right now and possibly best GC rider as well. Pogačar was not as good as I hope but he is a champion so I am sure he won't go down without a fight. Great to see Rodriguez and Sjkelmose up there showing that are legitimate threats to the overall podium.

 

[Cookster15]

Great point. Tour champions are not only superhuman riders, they are also athletes with the superhuman ability to recover. Does peak Jai Hindley have that? His Giro win suggests yes, but this is the TdF.

This. Genuine Grand Tour contenders have amazing ability to recover.

We already know from the 2022 Giro that Hindley can have great recovery - he had to mark attacks from both Carapaz and Landa in the previous days in the mountains. Bora say he went very deep today and might pay tomorrow. This may be true, but as an Aussie, I recall in 2011 TdF how Cadel went super deep when he chased Andy on the Galiber on stage 18 but still came back super strong the following day to AdH and then in the final TT. Its only stage 5. So lets see what Hindley's recovery is made of.

 

[Divergence]

I lurked here as many regaled in his mimicking of WvA. And now this.

I find it odd that so many enjoyed one rider ridiculing another. It does appear that WvA may not be well-liked. He certainly seems somewhat grouchy. But let’s just say “another” rider did these things, would so many people think it was so hilarious. I doubt it.

The TDF is not necessarily over. And Pog may yet win his third but I really find it hard to warm to him.

He is the best all around cyclist at the moment.

However:

1. How can one support THAT team: UAE?
2. The above ridiculing of opponents.
3. Everything has come so easy for him. The wrist issue, (certainly less damaging than other riders have had to deal with, and who are expected to rebound IMMEDIATELY!), is his very first challenge to deal with. Let’s see how he does.

For all his amazing successes, he leaves me just a bit cold.

Both are not easy to like

 

[Skijumper Roglic fan]

If neither UAE nor Jumbo chased, Hindley would have gotten 5 minutes - which neither Jumbo or UAE would want.

Watched ESP player from 20k to go on, and couldn‘t believe Hindley had 2mins still with 20k to go. I think JV and UAE were still playing a dangerous game, because Hindley has won the Giro in the past, and has no flat ITT to worry about.

Well, and Pogacar just seems to lack shape, certainly due to the problematic prep, due to wrist injury. Finished with Madouas, FdJ‘s co-captain, who will want to improve his 10th place on GC from last year.

Vingegaard very strong, indeed. But it‘s far from over. Pogacar probably isn’t the man any more than Vingegaard fears most, this year…