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Tour de France Tour de France 2024, Stage 15 14/7 Loudenvielle-Plateau de Beille 197.7k

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Oldermanish

Jan 31, 2016
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Logic-is-your-friend said:
Rumor mill says they already signed Evenepoel. Unclear whether for 2025 or 2026. Not sure what you expect of Jorgenson.
Click to expand...
Jorgenson was the guy that took 3 minutes out of the break on one climb today, accelerated and left everyone behind except his guy Jonas and Tadej. He's the guy that could ride across to Tadej on the gravel...realize his Patron is back in the dust and retrieve him....then ride back up to Pogacar while everyone else was also dropped. He also won a stage race and placed 2nd in another by seconds this year after winning a semi-classic. Seems like you could do something with a guy like that.
Another year with team support and he is #2, a recovered Jonas #3, Primoz #4 and Remco still working hard but not built for GTs.
 
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Krzysztof_O

Krzysztof_O

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Oldermanish said:
Jorgenson was the guy that took 3 minutes out of the break on one climb today, accelerated and left everyone behind except his guy Jonas and Tadej. He's the guy that could ride across to Tadej on the gravel...realize his Patron is back in the dust and retrieve him....then ride back up to Pogacar while everyone else was also dropped. He also won a stage race and placed 2nd in another by seconds this year after winning a semi-classic. Seems like you could do something with a guy like that.
Another year with team support and he is #2, a recovered Jonas #3, Primoz #4 and Remco still working hard but not built for GTs.
Click to expand...

Jorgenson is an all-terrain monster, no doubts. Yesterday he did better than I expected actually. He can be a leader for a non-Tour GT but the level of mutants in the mountains in something else.
 
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Valv.Piti

Valv.Piti

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BigCoward said:
There's 2 tdf contenders, should everyone else just give up?
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Well tbf, you make a good point. You can count real TdF contenders on one hand (Jonas, Pogacar, Remco and Roglic) and you could argue only two of them are ACTUAL contenders. If he rode for himself, he might have fought for 4th this race. He has been that strong and has spent a lot of energy positioning Jonas and being in the wind on days where most riders tried to conserve energy and not lose time.

So in short, I think he's extremely good and I do think he will be a GT-contender that can also win, but right now the state of the TdF-mutants is two levels above him. And that goes for the whole peloton almost.
 
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Miha81

Miha81

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staubsauger

staubsauger

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Rackham

Rackham

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Miha81 said:
Found it. It was in this thread all along :/

https://twitter.com/x/status/1812603801855267010
View: https://x.com/ammattipyoraily/status/1812603801855267010?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1812603801855267010%7Ctwgr%5Ecbb5ac80a0c467cbb02c99d176c91dab6a272616%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fforum.cyclingnews.com%2Fthreads%2Ftour-de-france-2024-stage-15-14-7-loudenvielle-plateau-de-beille-197-7k.39810%2Fpage-53
Click to expand...

Some people are always so desperate to prove Pog & Vinge aren't better than Pantani by desperately looking for mitigating circumstances regarding their ascent times.

But they really are a lot faster than Pantani. By a huge margin. Embrace it. People wanted to claim Jorgenson's pull was the reason for the huge gap versus Pantani's time but it evidently wasn't. They're the best climbers of the past 40 years & probably in the history of the sport.
 
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Peyroteo94

Peyroteo94

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Rackham said:
Some people are always so desperate to prove Pog & Vinge aren't better than Pantani by desperately looking for mitigating circumstances regarding their ascent times.

But they really are a lot faster than Pantani. By a huge margin. Embrace it. People wanted to claim Jorgenson's pull was the reason for the huge gap versus Pantani's time but it evidently wasn't. They're the best climbers of the past 40 years & probably in the history of the sport.
Click to expand...
Spot on! They are in a league of their own!
 
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CleanCiclismo

CleanCiclismo

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Rackham said:
Some people are always so desperate to prove Pog & Vinge aren't better than Pantani by desperately looking for mitigating circumstances regarding their ascent times.

But they really are a lot faster than Pantani. By a huge margin. Embrace it. People wanted to claim Jorgenson's pull was the reason for the huge gap versus Pantani's time but it evidently wasn't. They're the best climbers of the past 40 years & probably in the history of the sport.
Click to expand...
My 2 cents, if Pantani was racing today, say in team Bora or hell Visma, he would also be a lot faster than he was at the time. A lot of things improved since 1998. Not just the bikes and nutrition but also attitude. And this isn't seen just in cycling. In a lot of other sports it's becoming more and more like gladiators rather than competitors. Football now has more than 70 games in a season for the best players for example, when say 20 years ago you had Zidane playing 40 games and it was considered a lot. Going back to cycling, teams also have a lot more money to play with. I imagine just getting a good night sleep does wonders for a lot of riders. If you look at those reviews by Cort you can see that there is a huge gap between teams. UAE, Ineos, Bora have their own sleeping arrangements with specialised mattresses, air purifiers...you name it. Money is no obstacle for them, while teams like Uno-X have to sleep in bunker like conditions peeing in bottles during the night. Even the staff that follows them around is huge compared to the 90s. Every rider has their own masseuse, nutrition plan, likely their own coach. So yeah Pantani would be flying if he was to compete today.
 
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Brullnux

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Rackham said:
Some people are always so desperate to prove Pog & Vinge aren't better than Pantani by desperately looking for mitigating circumstances regarding their ascent times.

But they really are a lot faster than Pantani. By a huge margin. Embrace it. People wanted to claim Jorgenson's pull was the reason for the huge gap versus Pantani's time but it evidently wasn't. They're the best climbers of the past 40 years & probably in the history of the sport.
Click to expand...
People don't want Vingegaard and Pogacar to be faster than Pantani, but not for some nostalgic protection of the past... much the opposite.
 
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Netserk

Netserk

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CleanCiclismo said:
My 2 cents, if Pantani was racing today, say in team Bora or hell Visma, he would also be a lot faster than he was at the time. A lot of things improved since 1998. Not just the bikes and nutrition but also attitude. And this isn't seen just in cycling. In a lot of other sports it's becoming more and more like gladiators rather than competitors. Football now has more than 70 games in a season for the best players for example, when say 20 years ago you had Zidane playing 40 games and it was considered a lot. Going back to cycling, teams also have a lot more money to play with. I imagine just getting a good night sleep does wonders for a lot of riders. If you look at those reviews by Cort you can see that there is a huge gap between teams. UAE, Ineos, Bora have their own sleeping arrangements with specialised mattresses, air purifiers...you name it. Money is no obstacle for them, while teams like Uno-X have to sleep in bunker like conditions peeing in bottles during the night. Even the staff that follows them around is huge compared to the 90s. Every rider has their own masseuse, nutrition plan, likely their own coach. So yeah Pantani would be flying if he was to compete today.
Click to expand...
Swings and roundabouts. It's not as if there has been a constant and gradual improvement in performances since then.
 
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YavorD

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LMAO at people claiming it's all about improving of bikes and training

Pogacar was dealing with another record of Pantani only 70 days ago and he was 30 seconds (?) behind. Granted he didn't go all in and his team didn't drill as hard as Visma yesterday but he wouldn't be that far ahead.
Meaning that Pantani's records are still very relevant today. And 4 minutes is a whole universe.
 
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