Tour de France Tour de France 2024: Stage 16 16/7 Gruissan - Nîmes, 188.6k

[James M]

If anyone need a job. Btw imagine how easy it is to get to their room? just go to the reception and say your from doping control and they give you key card then you can play Xbox with Remco.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWqGEmxKyps&embeds_referring_euri=https%3A%2F%2Fforum.cyclingnews.com%2F&source_ve_path=MjM4NTE&feature=emb_title&themeRefresh=1

 

[Danskebjerge]

I thought the domination of Visma and UAE would be criticized more. But at least now, more riders are complaining about it. Fuglsang has said that his team has to approach the race differently because no breakaways are succeeding. And Uno-X are even more frustrated which is perfectly understandable given how much they have tried compared to how little the output has been for them.

"In the long run, Visma and the UAE being terribly greedy is a bit detrimental to entertainment," says one of Uno-X riders to VG.

Hushovd: "Previously, there were three to six minutes between the peloton and the breakaway. Now the gap is just one to two minutes. That's when the breakaway riders lose motivation. The group is caught up and eliminated. That's the tactic of the big teams."

If I were in the UCI, I would be thinking a lot about what can be done about this. Some fans like the domination, but overall, I think people prefer more suspense and variety.

 

[DenisMenchov]

Interesting how Visma and UAE are gready with 4 stage wins among them, but Alpecin and Intermarche are not gready with 5? Pogacar and Vingegaard are payed to win stages the same way as Philipsen and Girmay. Yet many teams just sit in the bunch and don't want to work for it on a "sprinters" day but still expect gifts on mountain stages?!

 

[Danskebjerge]

Interesting how Visma and UAE are gready with 4 stage wins among them, but Alpecin and Intermarche are not gready with 5?

The sprinter teams can only achieve success through stage wins, while the GC teams can create their time gaps without being the first to cross the finish line.

 

[DenisMenchov]

The sprinter teams can only achieve success through stage wins, while the GC teams can create their time gaps without being the first to cross the finish line.

There are also bonus seconds in the end and overall hard stages produce bigger gaps. They are free to race as hard as they want. There was just one clear breakaway stage (stage 9) so far and break took it. There are 2 more stages in the last week (stages 17 & 18). Again that's not teams' fault but ASO's.

 

[Danskebjerge]

There are also bonus seconds in the end and overall hard stages produce bigger gaps. They are free to race as hard as they want. There was just one clear breakaway stage (stage 9) so far and break took it. There are 2 more stages in the last week (stages 17 & 18). Again that's not teams' fault but ASO's.

A team like Uno-X has tried time and time again, both on the flat and the mountaineous stages. They have been nowhere near a stage win, and even without being in a breakaway that succeeds all the way, they have rightfully expected to be in breakaways with some chance of making it - but this hasn't happened. In the mountains, there are always stages that are won by breakaway riders, with the GC riders taking a couple of stage wins. That's the norm that Uno-X and other minor teams have been calculating with. This may still happen, of course, but I understand they are losing faith.

The unwritten rule about not being greedy when you're leading is as old as I can remember. The commentators mentioned it often in the 1990's even.

 

[DenisMenchov]

A team like Uno-X has tried time and time again, both on the flat and the mountaineous stages. They have been nowhere near a stage win, and even without being in a breakaway that succeeds all the way, they have rightfully expected to be in breakaways with some chance of making it - but this hasn't happened. In the mountains, there are always stages that are won by breakaway riders, with the GC riders taking a couple of stage wins. That's the norm that Uno-X and other minor teams have been calculating with. This may still happen, of course, but I understand they are losing faith.

The unwritten rule about not being greedy when you're leading is as old as I can remember. The commentators mentioned it often in the 1990's even.

They have 2nd and 3rd place, what do you mean not near a stage win?! How closer can you get?

Arkea and TotalEnergies both won a stage each, so did DSM. On paper those are 2 really small teams and one medium. Intermarche has 3 stage wins. So all in all smaller teams already have 6 wins out of 15 stages. That's good odds.

 

[Lequack]

Pog interview

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajuEVnTGS_s


Remco interview

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gJJu9fu8EQ

 

[Lequack]

UAE backstage

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93Ut9BfCmMI

 

[Danskebjerge]

They have 2nd and 3rd place, what do you mean not near a stage win?! How closer can you get?

Arkea and TotalEnergies both won a stage each, so did DSM. On paper those are 2 really small teams and one medium. Intermarche has 3 stage wins. So all in all smaller teams already have 6 wins out of 15 stages. That's good odds.

Uno-X are not complaining about the result lists, they are saying that it has been too hard to get into successful breakaways because they are being chased down hard by the big teams. And you've got to admit they have tried.

 

[Stelvio]

Wind forecast is gusts upwards 30 kph from the northwest in Nimes in the afternoon. Chance of echelons if we're lucky..

 

[Valv.Piti]

Uno-X are not complaining about the result lists, they are saying that it has been too hard to get into successful breakaways because they are being chased down hard by the big teams. And you've got to admit they have tried.

Blame the ASO, not Jumbo and UAE for trying to win the race in the mountains lol

 

[zlev11]

yeah they should be complaining that there have been barely any stage designs that actually lend themselves to a breakaway. everything has either been a flat sprint stage or a GC mountain stage since after the opening weekend. if the break still doesn't go these next two days i think thursdays stage is going to be absolutely nuts, or it could be either way.

 

[Danskebjerge]

yeah they should be complaining that there have been barely any stage designs that actually lend themselves to a breakaway. everything has either been a flat sprint stage or a GC mountain stage since after the opening weekend. if the break still doesn't go these next two days i think thursdays stage is going to be absolutely nuts, or it could be either way.

I don't think their point is that all the breakaways need to go all the way to the finish line. They just want more than those 1-2 minutes so that they can start believing they may succeed.

And that's how I feel about it, too. That small chance of making it contributes to the excitement when you're watching a race.

 

[scribers]

For breaks to have a chance you need to de-incentivize sprinters and GC team chase control.

Hills (walls) plus finishing ramps for sprinters. Maybe rethink intermediate sprints too (though they are usually decent).

For GC maybe remove the bonus seconds at the end. I think they regularly added bonus seconds in to incentivize more GC action at the finish. I can’t recall now why it was lagging so much. Maybe doping controls for stage winners?

 

[zlev11]

I don't think their point is that all the breakaways need to go all the way to the finish line. They just want more than those 1-2 minutes so that they can start believing they may succeed.

And that's how I feel about it, too. That small chance of making it contributes to the excitement when you're watching a race.

whatever their point is, it's still the fault of the route. you cant blame the GC riders for wanting to race the mountain stages.

 

[Danskebjerge]

For GC maybe remove the bonus seconds at the end. I think they regularly added bonus seconds in to incentivize more GC action at the finish.

True. It's not like we've always wanted breakaways to succeed. Often, the opposite has been the case. Then we have been talking about what could be done to make the GC riders win more stages.

It's not contradictory. Things change. And the Tour should adapt to that.

So they should make it harder for the GC leader to win the polka dot jersey, they should change the criteria of the young riders jersey (preferrably abolish it), they should remove the bonus seconds on mountain tops (as you mention), and they should put in more KoM points on the flatter stages to avoid stages with no breakaway attempts.

 

[Samamba]

Wind forecast is gusts upwards 30 kph from the northwest in Nimes in the afternoon. Chance of echelons if we're lucky..

Are we gonna give everyone hope again lmao. 30km/u gusts is not a lot. Average wind is like 16km/u which simply isn't enough.

 

[Danskebjerge]

you cant blame the GC riders for wanting to race the mountain stages.

That's exactly what was different earlier, for decades. The GC riders took it easy in the beginning of the mountain stages.

 

[Valv.Piti]

That's exactly what was different earlier, for decades. The GC riders took it easy in the beginning of the mountain stages.

I remember when GC teams didn't bother. That was a terrible watch watching break after break winning stages with 10-20 minutes of actual racing going on behind. We don't wish to go back to that at ANY POINT. At least I don't want that.

Mostly its on stage design, simple as. Usually there are more varied transition stages, but this year there's not and that has been a big complaint for most posters engaging in discussions of the route. ASO has simply done a poor job because you can simply not fault sprinter teams for controlling on the flat days and GC teams for racing the mountains stages hard. If anything, we can blame the smaller teams going for very unlikely sprinters on flat days and not engaging in break action AT ALL.

 

[scribers]

True. It's not like we've always wanted breakaways to succeed. Often, the opposite has been the case. Then we have been talking about what could be done to make the GC riders win more stages.

It's not contradictory. Things change. And the Tour should adapt to that.

So they should make it harder for the GC leader to win the polka dot jersey, they should change the criteria of the young riders jersey (preferrably abolish it), they should remove the bonus seconds on mountain tops (as you mention), and they should put in more KoM points on the flatter stages to avoid stages with no breakaway attempts.

The problem with making it harder for GC to win mountains classification is the best climber is usually the GC guy. But they usually don’t desire it anyhow, so there’s that. Climbers in the break have every incentive to get those points compared to GC guys. With KOM points along the way and sometimes at the end.

Maybe smaller teams would help breaks survive too

 

[Brullnux]

Interesting how Visma and UAE are gready with 4 stage wins among them, but Alpecin and Intermarche are not gready with 5? Pogacar and Vingegaard are payed to win stages the same way as Philipsen and Girmay. Yet many teams just sit in the bunch and don't want to work for it on a "sprinters" day but still expect gifts on mountain stages?!

Intermarché, in true intermarché style, have done absolutely no work at any point in this race.

 

[DenisMenchov]

Intermarché, in true intermarché style, have done absolutely no work at any point in this race.

They worked in the front on stage 8.

 

[hayneplane]

One good tweak could be to dish out more points for cat 4 (3points) and cat 3 (5points) instead of the current 1 and 2 points respectively so that there is more reward and incentive for a first week battle for the KOM jersey as this year very quickly went to Abrahamson winning unchallenged. It would also allow a rider to build up a bigger tally that would less easily be overhauled by one big climb from a GC guy.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Last stage where Pogacar can lose the Tour.