Tour de France Tour de France 2024, Stage 4: Pinerolo > Valloire, 139.6 km

[proffate]

I would not have thought Tadej would put time into Jonas on rhe descent. Rhe gap was only 7 seconds on rhe top of rhe Galibier.

Jonas practiced descents prior to rhe Tour to regain his confidence after his terrible crash. It's tough. It will be interesting to see what he says about that.

The top seemed a bit more technical with hairpins, some wet. Jonas was even to slightly better on that part, at least if you trust the moto gaps. He looked marginally smoother with fewer line corrections as well. I think he just didn't have the juice to jump out of corners or power along the straighter bits.

 

[proffate]

When Almeida was pulling hard, and A.Yates was already dropped, he was haging around at the end of the group.
Almeida turned around, and waved emphatically at him to come forward and take a pull. And lo and behold, Ayuso had no problems any more, came to the front, and pulled. Not as much as Almeida for sure though.

I honestly see a bigger problem here with Almeida, who should not have remonstrated so publicly on TV. Pog or the DS should be the one telling Ayuso what to do. Tactically, I think what happened worked out fine, with Ayuso being marginally useful on the descent/finish. He should be following orders for sure, I just don't know what they were saying in his earpiece and I don't think Almeida should be the one calling the shots.

The real reason Almeida was angry was that he was on career best form, looking like the world's 3rd or 4th best climber, but had to "waste" it on his leader. If Almeida were OTB do you think he still would have been so hot n bothered?

 

[jaylew]

I missed what Ayuso did

Basically trying to save his GC more than the other helpers. It was obvious but not quite as bad as is made out here.

I just rewatched it. He hadn't pulled yet and was hanging out near the back of the group while Yates, Pog, and Almeida were near the front, Almeida doing a long, strong pull. Yates pulled for a short bit after that and Ayuso made his way up to the front (possibly had to be told) and then took over from Yates, dropping JV's last helper, Jorgenson. After his pull he slotted back in near the back of the group while Almeida took over. After pulling a while Almeida starts waving for Ayuso to come back on the front but he's near the back with Roglic. He goes back to the front and he and Almeida start trading pulls until Pog goes. Posters will tell you that Ameida's pulls were harder or longer than Ayuso's but after watching it again, once Yates was gone they shared the work equally but of course Almeida had worked much more at that point.

The biggest issue is he obviously cares about his GC more than the others and hangs out at the back of the group instead of up front near Pog where he should be. I'm guessing that might change going forward after a stern talk from the team but we'll see.

 

[will-10]

The Pyrenees will be more revealing for Ayuso's motives IMO. Coming in with such a stacked top 4, all from altitude, I can imagine it's quite difficult to be certain which order to use those guys up in. Yates and Almeida were very closely matched in Suisse, and Ayuso had more disrupted buildup with his Dauphine.
I suspect that is why we saw them swapping off rather than just pulling and ejecting in turn. The first big climb obviously helps to clarify who should be the last guy etc.

As an aside, obviously they have had all the bad luck in the world, but it's pretty crazy to see Jonas so isolated.

 

[jaylew]

In any case, the team is publicly praising him. I'm guessing behind closed doors they will say he needs to stay near the front with his teammates more which is nothing new.

“Everybody did great work, all the eight guys did perfect,” Almeida told ITV. “We are proud of our work. In the end, it paid off, just a pity the headwind. I think it’s looking good.”

“It was a great performance from all of the team, especially João Almeida and Juan Ayuso on the Galibier and finally the great work by Tadej Pogacar. Incredible, incredible achievement,” manager Mauro Gianetti told Eurosport.

 

[red_flanders]

And yet, he did a faster descent than Vingegaard.

I think we can all agree that he gained back time on the straighter, lower portions and looked terrible on the steeper, curvier sections.

He has a lot of power, that's great. His skill level on the descents is something which can and will be exploited.

 

[scribers]

What a stage! July is truly begun for me

 

[Le Grand Doop]

Basically trying to save his GC more than the other helpers. It was obvious but not quite as bad as is made out here.

loooooooong history of totally selfish riding without ever lifting a finger for a teammate.

 

[Low is rhe new high]

To be (able to live it down) or not to be (able to live it down), that is rhe question!

What has happened to Simon Yates?

He was always the slightly better brother until they went their seperate ways.

Though last year looked to be back in some level of form.

And this year just seems another BIG step down, pretty consistently from the start of the season.

Jayco does not know the right proportions between fructose and glucose?

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Ayuso is a perfect fit for a Movistar GC leader.

 

[Roku]

I posted early in the year that he had a poor preparation because of sponsor commitments. His last race day in 2023 was in the Taiwan on the 27th October, then in Mid January, he was riding the TDU in Australia, then he went straight to the Alula tour in Saudi Arabia at the end of January. Since then he has not fired a shot. Jayco needs to make a decision whether he drops more time and tries for stages or battles on to get top 15 GC.

Anyways S.Yates has always been hit or miss and usually too inconsistent. He should drop out of GC and fight for stage wins, IMHO.

 

[velaso montador]

He lost 17s to pogacar in the descent to my countings and calculations. He lost less than Vingegaard but more than Roglic/Rodriguez/Ayuso. I'd like to see him do better obviously, but then again, it's really not the end of the world either.

He says his wheel slid a bit on one of the wet sections, and he stopped taking risks after that.

Great ride from evenpoel. Evenpoel was clearly the second strongest rider today after Pogacar I think like befoer he will surprise manyyy this tour* he is mean and lean. He lost a bit in the first part downhill but the power section only pogacar matched him and at the end evenpoel was clearly the strongest in the bunch behind.

 

[skidmark]

loooooooong history of totally selfish riding without ever lifting a finger for a teammate.

I guess given that he's 21 and has only been a leader, that makes sense

 

[RobertCrawley]

Jonas: He says rhe team expected to lose 2 minutes or more in rhe first four stages. To lose "only" 50 seconds is quite good, and "our time will come."

 

[Barkintheeye]

Great ride from evenpoel. Evenpoel was clearly the second strongest rider today after Pogacar I think like befoer he will surprise manyyy this tour* he is mean and lean. He lost a bit in the first part downhill but the power section only pogacar matched him and at the end evenpoel was clearly the strongest in the bunch behind.

How do you reckon that? Only rider that was close to follow pog’s attack was Vingo…

 

[scribers]

All that good climbing is no good if you give it all away to remco and lose time to boot

 

[scribers]

Jonas: He says rhe team expected to lose 2 minutes or more in rhe first four stages. To lose "only" 50 seconds is quite good, and "our time will come."

lol okay

 

[Landeirovic]

Good performance still. Probably sat up a bit. Knowing he has no chance to repeat what he did last year and get on the podium.

And if Almeida + Ayuso are this good... he doesnt need to be better atm.

Last year Yates did as domestique a great GC result. This year he will be domestisque but not spend more energy for GC. He go to the Vuelta where he can win the GC

 

[Poursuivant]

Last year Yates did as domestique a great GC result. This year he will be domestisque but not spend more energy for GC. He go to the Vuelta where he can win the GC

He will come second to Pog at Vuelta

 

[search]

According to Denk's podcast, Bora and Ineos got a hotel with a beautiful view today - at 1800m alttiude

 

[Pantani_lives]

Holy Moses, what a stage! UAE used the length and height of the Galibier to reduce the group to the best eight climbers in this Tour. Pogacar used his explosiveness to create a gap in the final section with the steep bends. His descent was impressive. He must have done a lot of reconnoitering. Those bends with the melted snow looked scary.

For Evenepoel today was his crucible, and he passed it with flying colors. The doubts about his capacities at high altitude and about his team strength have been erased. A podium spot in Nice looks very realistic now. He just has to do good time trials and avoid a bad day.

 

[scribers]

High fives at aso’s dinner table today. They’ve delivered us from Italy with a bang through the alps and there is still a race to be done

 

[Cookster15]

Nice to have action like this so early in the Tour!

Great win by Pogacar and a good example why he is a popular rider. Noticed he rode all the way to the line only celebrating after the line - he wanted every second he could get. With bonuses it was a good day's haul.

Vingegaard lost the wheel when Pog surged out of a bend - Vinge didn't have the power. Also not sure if its significant that Vingegaard lost the wheel in the chasing group at the end and slipped 2 seconds?

After the criticism of their riding on stage 2, UAE did a good job and surely Ayuso knows his place now?

Also good to see Remco finish strongly with the Vingegaard group and Roglic hold on after initially struggling when the fun started on the Galibier.

 

[KZD]

One of the most entertaining descents of the last years and good stage altogether.

Pogačar really is in superb shape, being able to drop a very high level Vingegaard on the high mountains is impressive and in the second part of the descent he really showed that he had more left in the tank. UAE riders also with an amazing job (big shoutout to Pollitt and Almeida), only Ayuso is a worry given his seemingly unwillingness to work.

Vingegaard didn't look good in the end and lost important time but he is still in the game and the fact that the next mountain stage is in 8 days should help him but the TT is going to be another hard test and Visma doesn't look good either.

Remco also really strong showing that he is really climbing at his best and with the TT coming on Friday he has to be considered as a real candidate for the overall as well. Rodriguez very strong as I expected in this sort of stage and Roglič with a better performance than on Sunday showing that he is still in the game.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Why am I feeling that the Tour GC could still be exciting and is far from over?

Pogi drew the first blood but it's only stage 4 and it's far from certain he'll keep his level until the end. Vingo obviously hasn't said his last word and will want to attack later. NoFatco Evenepoel may turn out to be very dangerous in this Tour: given his current climbing level and two TTs left. Not sure about Primoz but maybe it's too early to write him off.