Tour de France Tour de France 2024, Stage 5: Saint-Jean-de-Maurienne > Saint-Vulbas, 177.4 km

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QueenStagiaire

QueenStagiaire

Jun 30, 2022
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Libertine Seguros said:
This to me has been a lot like Aleksandr Ovechkin's pursuit of the NHL goals record. It feels somehow wrong for him to break it, cos the guy that holds the record is unquestionably a better player, and for the last few years the entire modus operandi of the Capitals has been to get Ovechkin goals by any means necessary, knowing they will lose games as their team is rebuilding. So they've been sending him out for the whole 2 minutes of the powerplay to stand in the circle and rip shots every time the puck comes near him, sending him out every time the opponent pulls the goalie and instructing others to pass to him for the empty netter, giving him almost 100% offensive-zone starts, and so on, that means that breaking the record feels a little hollow seeing as nobody in their right mind thinks Ovechkin a greater player than Gretzky and it feels a bit wrong to not have Gretzky hold that record, but you just can't help but admire the longevity needed and respect the hustle that has been involved in Ovechkin's quest to get there.

I see Cav in the same way. It doesn't feel right to have Merckx not hold the record, and the fact Cavendish has spread his wins over far more years and has only won one type of stage means it feels a bit hollow that he's the record holder because, hey, he's a sprinter and they always get more chances to win - a bit like the most decorated Olympian always being a swimmer because of the plethora of medals available - and yet having seen all of the highs and lows, and all the people who were thinking in 2009-10 that he'd have broken this record by 2015 because of his dominance, watched him go through reinvention, moving from team to team, breaking down and building himself back up, and... is it three now... repeated attempts to 'get the band back together' for one last shot at the record as he ages out and is forced to adapt to a lesser lead-out and stronger and faster riders around him, and try to do to the young guys what Alessandro Petacchi once did to him... again, I don't really want a one-dimensional sprinter to hold the record and somebody other than Merckx holding it just seems wrong, but it's impossible not to admire the longevity and respect the hustle that has earned him this undisputable place in history.
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So Ronaldo=Ovechkin and Cavendish=Ovechkin? You‘re running out of comparisons
 
Peyroteo94

Peyroteo94

Mar 20, 2022
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Libertine Seguros said:
I'm not saying he doesn't deserve it, the last part was saying precisely that. I'm saying it somehow feels wrong that Merckx doesn't hold it anymore, but you can't help but admire and respect the effort that has gone into breaking it.
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Did you see Merckx riding? Genuinely question because if you didn't how can you say it feels wrong? Maybe Merckx won a lot of stages by beating amateur riders. I don't know because I didn't see him racing.
 
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B

Bolder

Jun 25, 2015
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TourOfSardinia said:
Clipboard.png

'Life Is What Happens When You're Busy Making Other Plans'​

( attrib. John Lennon)​

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Better than puppies any day! But that's a lot of mouths to feed.
 
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Libertine Seguros

Libertine Seguros

Feb 20, 2010
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tobydawq said:
That icehockey reference makes no sense.

This is a Tour stage we're talking about.
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Why does it make no sense?

It's a record for an achievement in a sport which is held by somebody perceived as the all time greatest, and which somebody has been getting closer to, and pursuing, for years now. Nobody thinks Ovechkin is a better player than Gretzky, but regardless of people's opinion of whether they want that record broken, the effort required to even be in position to consider breaking the record is impossible not to at least admire.

Likewise, Eddy's number of stage wins was a monumental achievement in the sport by somebody almost universally perceived as the greatest, and Cav had been getting close for years, and several times it seemed like he'd stall out and would fall short, and then he drew level... but he couldn't get the record breaker. And it seemed like the chance was gone and he was coming back for increasingly forlorn hope of getting the record breaker, so it's admirable that he kept on coming back when it would have been easy to have retired having equalled it, especially given the setbacks he's faced since.
 
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Ilmaestro99

Ilmaestro99

Apr 13, 2021
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I don't actually think is rigged, I think he made the history and it's a legitimate great achievement. But it's like Cristiano ronaldo having the all-time international goal record but needing a lot of rigged gifted penalties against weak nations like San marino, faro islands and belgium.
 
tobydawq

tobydawq

Nov 16, 2013
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Salvarani said:
I think you understand the point of it, even if you dont agree.
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I don't think it makes sense because the hockey player will inevitably score points if set up by his teammates, assuming he plays for a good team. Especially if the team really is set up for that as the primary focus (which sounds lame but I know nothing of the NHL).

You definitely don't get a Tour win just by grinding up the number of stages you ride, nevermind how good a team you ride for.

I get the point that he has been picked up by Astana with the record in mind but it feels like an attempt to diminish his achievements (alluding to its inevitability).

Then again, I rarely think comparisons between ball sports and cycling make much sense.
 
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S

Salvarani

Oct 15, 2017
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Ilmaestro99 said:
I don't actually think is rigged, I think he made the history and it's a legitimate great achievement. But it's like Cristiano ronaldo having the all-time international goal record but needing a lot of rigged gifted penalties against weak nations like San marino, faro islands and belgium.
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They also play way more international games and friendlies now than ever before.

Back in day they hardly played any.
 
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J

jmdirt

Dec 6, 2013
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tobydawq said:
I don't think it makes sense because the hockey player will inevitably score points if set up by his teammates, assuming he plays for a good team. Especially if the team really is set up for that as the primary focus (which sounds lame but I know nothing of the NHL).

You definitely don't get a Tour win just by grinding up the number of stages you ride, nevermind how good a team you ride for.

I get the point that he has been picked up by Astana with the record in mind but it feels like an attempt to diminish his achievements (alluding to its inevitability).

Then again, I rarely think comparisons between ball sports and cycling make much sense.
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There is no ball in ice hockey. :)
 
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Libertine Seguros

Libertine Seguros

Feb 20, 2010
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Peyroteo94 said:
Did you see Merckx riding? Genuinely question because if you didn't how can you say it feels wrong? Maybe Merckx won a lot of stages by beating amateur riders. I don't know because I didn't see him racing.
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Not live, of course not, but there's plenty of archival footage out there. And yea, the sport was very different back then and the field was nothing like as specialised or as deep. It's just one of those things that has been ingrained in the sport as long as I've been alive, and many of his records seemed unbreakable, and the only one that I've seen broken previously was the Tour victories which had only ever been equalled and, well, we all know about what happened there. It's a testament to Cav's longevity that he has been able to get that many across such a long period of time in a style of stage that typically suits the younger rider as well, with the fast twitch fibres needed. But also because Eddy won all types of stages whereas Cav has only won one type of stage (depending on your opinion on Aubenas 2009 which is legitimately probably the most impressive of the lot imo) so it seems surreal to have won enough of one specific type of stage, since Cav only really has 1/3 of every Tour's stages available to him to win whereas Merckx could contend for all 20+ stages every edition.
 
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