Tour de France Tour de France 2024, Stage 5: Saint-Jean-de-Maurienne > Saint-Vulbas, 177.4 km

[tobydawq]

Of course, because he still had to deliver the goods, so it's not a matter of just turning up. But then, apart from the gifted empty netters, Ovechkin still has to put the puck in the net. If it was just about turning up and marking time then I'd have been a lot more critical, and compared it to Keith Yandle's ironman streak or Adam Hansen's run of consecutive GTs, where it went from them being respected, revered hardmen who never missed a day, through to by the end of the run, it being all that they're known for. Yandle became a soft, fragile defender who would never make or take a hit for fear of losing the ironman streak, and got scratched in the playoffs (which didn't count for the streak) and traded to a team specifically because they promised they wouldn't drop him from the starting lineup until he broke the record. That to me was a disappointing damp squib of a record breaker that was hard to respect because the final year or two completely overshadowed how tough he had been to be in that position in the first place.

Cav winning is far from a damp squib and is impossible not to respect.

Fair enough, I still want to maintain that you have to beat all the best (or many of the best , rather) sprinters to win a stage in the Tour, while that's certainly not the case to score a hockey point, but I think I'll let this be now.

 

[zlev11]

How Cav moved up and positioned himself

That was a masterclass

yeah he almost crashed 3 different riders but sure, a masterclass

 

[meat puppet]

Hey, if Mario had stayed healthy...

Preach!

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I also understand what she was trying to say, I just think it paints quite a negative picture.

Scoring a point in hockey is surely much, much easier than winning a Tour stage.

The number of goals required to break the record is 895.

So yes, while scoring a goal is easier than winning a Tour stage (also Ovi is nowhere even remotely close to beating the points record as Gretzky also had almost 2000 assists) the number required to break the record is also a huuuuuge amount higher to reflect that.

 

[RobertCrawley]

The number of goals required to break the record is 895.

So yes, while scoring a goal is easier than winning a Tour stage (also Ovi is nowhere even remotely close to beating the points record as Gretzky also had almost 2000 assists) the number required to break the record is also a huuuuuge amount higher to reflect that.

Gretzky's assist record is what has always impressed me most about his amazing career.

 

[Salvarani]

I also understand what she was saying, I just think it paints quite a negative picture.

Scoring a point in hockey is surely much, much easier than winning a Tour stage.

I think it was more about the feat in itself and how it was achieved, rather than comparing points to stage-wins.

 

[rallybanana]

IMHO the best comparison for Merckx is Pele. Old people would talk about how great he was even though the guy never even played a single Champions League match.

Do you mean the European Cup?

 

[Salvarani]

yeah he almost crashed 3 different riders but sure, a masterclass

Not at all.

Dont think he did anything "bad" there or out of the ordinary that you see in a sprint.

It was how he moved up and between riders to eventually get a gap... then went for it. It was great execution and very much a masterclass.

 

[Unchained]

This to me has been a lot like Aleksandr Ovechkin's pursuit of the NHL goals record. It feels somehow wrong for him to break it, cos the guy that holds the record is unquestionably a better player, and for the last few years the entire modus operandi of the Capitals has been to get Ovechkin goals by any means necessary, knowing they will lose games as their team is rebuilding. So they've been sending him out for the whole 2 minutes of the powerplay to stand in the circle and rip shots every time the puck comes near him, sending him out every time the opponent pulls the goalie and instructing others to pass to him for the empty netter, giving him almost 100% offensive-zone starts, and so on, that means that breaking the record feels a little hollow seeing as nobody in their right mind thinks Ovechkin a greater player than Gretzky and it feels a bit wrong to not have Gretzky hold that record, but you just can't help but admire the longevity needed and respect the hustle that has been involved in Ovechkin's quest to get there.

I see Cav in the same way. It doesn't feel right to have Merckx not hold the record, and the fact Cavendish has spread his wins over far more years and has only won one type of stage means it feels a bit hollow that he's the record holder because, hey, he's a sprinter and they always get more chances to win - a bit like the most decorated Olympian always being a swimmer because of the plethora of medals available - and yet having seen all of the highs and lows, and all the people who were thinking in 2009-10 that he'd have broken this record by 2015 because of his dominance, watched him go through reinvention, moving from team to team, breaking down and building himself back up, and... is it three now... repeated attempts to 'get the band back together' for one last shot at the record as he ages out and is forced to adapt to a lesser lead-out and stronger and faster riders around him, and try to do to the young guys what Alessandro Petacchi once did to him... again, I don't really want a one-dimensional sprinter to hold the record and somebody other than Merckx holding it just seems wrong, but it's impossible not to admire the longevity and respect the hustle that has earned him this undisputable place in history.

Please contact USA Cycling ( USCF) I want my bike racing records divided into 4 or 5 separate careers!! And they will know what to do, they will see a result, then a series of last place and DNFs. Who would not want to be able to cherry pick stats, to make staying too long or smaller window of opportunity for competition and comparison? Russell Wilson just texted and said he for sure wants his career divided into sucking and non sucking sections.
Armstrong for sure knows when he pushed too far, one less comeback and maybe history is totally different.
I for one had zero confidence that Cavendish could deliver. Him blowing groceries, off the back everyday, nothing was a sign he was going to succeed, but that is the difference. The greats figure out a way to get it done.. And talk about evolution!! When Cavendish started he needed pimple cream and a fake ID.now he needs a school bus and mobile diaper changing table to get through the day!!
Cavendish believed in himself and the pay off is stupendous!!
No way does he not deserve the record, without any *** asterisk

 

[Netserk]

Then again, I rarely think comparisons between ball sports and cycling make much sense.

That's what you get when you compare a sport with a ball game. Like tennis.

 

[tobydawq]

That's what you get when you compare a sport with a ball game. Like tennis.

wat

 

[gunara]

gifted penalties against weak nations like San marino, faro islands and belgium.

Unnecessary bad words towards nice people of San Marino and Faroe Islands

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Please contact USA Cycling ( USCF) I want my bike racing records divided into 4 or 5 separate careers!! And they will know what to do, they will see a result, then a series of last place and DNFs. Who would not want to be able to cherry pick stats, to make staying too long or smaller window of opportunity for competition and comparison? Russell Wilson just texted and said he for sure wants his career divided into sucking and non sucking sections.
Armstrong for sure knows when he pushed too far, one less comeback and maybe history is totally different.
I for one had zero confidence that Cavendish could deliver. Him blowing groceries, off the back everyday, nothing was a sign he was going to succeed, but that is the difference. The greats figure out a way to get it done.. And talk about evolution!! When Cavendish started he needed pimple cream and a fake ID.now he needs a school bus and mobile diaper changing table to get through the day!!
Cavendish believed in himself and the pay off is stupendous!!
No way does he not deserve the record, without any *** asterisk

What on earth are you responding to? Where did I ever suggest "dividing careers into sections statistically"? Where did I cherry pick stats? Where did I suggest that the record needs asterisking? All I said was that early in his career he was blitzing out ~5 stages a season and people were thinking he could break it with ease and then he'd endured a number of obstacles and hardships that meant it seemed increasingly unlikely he'd be able to do it, and he has had to show a huge amount of determination and bloody-mindedness to still be able to fight for the stages at this point in his career, therefore he has earned it?

 

[skippo12]

So only Bauhaus relegated after todays sprint? The way it looked I would have done the same with Gaviria. They nearly took out half the field fighting for Philipsen's wheel.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

Why haven't de lie been diqualified yet? He crashed mads pederson. Actually probably Cavandish and philipsen also should be relegated for diving across the whole road.

 

[RedheadDane]

Why haven't de lie been diqualified yet? He crashed mads pederson. Actually probably Cavandish and philipsen also should be relegated for diving across the whole road.

Huh? The only one I saw diving across the whole road - and crashing Pedersen - was Philipsen...

 

[Slavique Nuke]

This to me has been a lot like Aleksandr Ovechkin's pursuit of the NHL goals record. It feels somehow wrong for him to break it, cos the guy that holds the record is unquestionably a better player, and for the last few years the entire modus operandi of the Capitals has been to get Ovechkin goals by any means necessary, knowing they will lose games as their team is rebuilding. So they've been sending him out for the whole 2 minutes of the powerplay to stand in the circle and rip shots every time the puck comes near him, sending him out every time the opponent pulls the goalie and instructing others to pass to him for the empty netter, giving him almost 100% offensive-zone starts, and so on, that means that breaking the record feels a little hollow seeing as nobody in their right mind thinks Ovechkin a greater player than Gretzky and it feels a bit wrong to not have Gretzky hold that record, but you just can't help but admire the longevity needed and respect the hustle that has been involved in Ovechkin's quest to get there.

You sound like someone who is completely clueless about hockey. Ovechkin is a much better goal scorer than Gretzky ever was, and he is easily the best goal scorer of all time. He would have broken Gretzky's scoring record a long time ago if it hadn't been for lockouts and covid. In Ovechkin's prime, the average goal per game was much lower than it was in the 80s & he's still going to break that record.

No one is talking about Ovechkin being a better player than Gretzky or the best player ever. He's just simply a goal-scoring machine and he's the best ever at it.

Btw, I don't know why you're upset because the team wants to have their best goal scorer on the ice when they have the man advantage or are in the offensive zone.

 

[Barkintheeye]

Great that Cav did it. Lovely to witness cycling history!

Now I want Pog to win this Tour, Van der Poel to win the Olympics and Van Aert to win the road WC.

 

[MartinGT]

Btw, what's the name of that English commentator who sometimes is even a race speaker - not Carlton Kirby, not Rob Hatch. He has a rather high-pitched voice.

If its the one I am thinking of it's the one with long hair. He's done a few major races including the Olympics. He is normally in the lead car at the British Nationals and ToB.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

You sound like someone who is completely clueless about hockey. Ovechkin is a much better goal scorer than Gretzky ever was, and he is easily the best goal scorer of all time. He would have broken Gretzky's scoring record a long time ago if it hadn't been for lockouts and covid. In Ovechkin's prime, the average goal per game was much lower than it was in the 80s & he's still going to break that record.

No one is talking about Ovechkin being a better player than Gretzky or the best player ever. He's just simply a goal-scoring machine and he's the best ever at it.

Btw, I don't know why you're upset because the team wants to have their best goal scorer on the ice when they have the man advantage or are in the offensive zone.

I'm not upset about it. I'm just saying that that's how the Caps are playing at the moment, because at the position they are in their cycle, they aren't going to be winning a Cup any time soon, but Ovi chasing the record is a big storyline that people are invested in and it keeps them watching even when the team is struggling. Other elements of Ovi's game may be deteriorating with age but he's still a great goalscorer. It's more about the fact that somebody who is the greatest in one discipline is chasing the record of somebody who is perceived as the greatest of all - which I feel is comparable to Cav - now hard to argue against his being the greatest ever sprinter - breaking a record previously held by Merckx, perceived as the greatest of all.

 

[Froome]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1808527454174138611

View: https://x.com/davidguenel/status/1808527454174138611


Please, asterisk on Cavendish record.

 

[pmcg76]

Sad day for those of us who like cyclists who well....actually race. I would wager Cavendish spent less time with his nose in the wind in his 35 wins than Merckx did in one of his victories.

I was doing some research as I couldn't figure out how the time cut on stage 1 was 50 minutes for a stage that didn't have anything above a Cat 2. I always knew about % of winning time, speed, distance etc but not the exact formula. So the Tour has a co-efficent for stage toughness to calculate time-cuts, 1-6 with 1 being an easy flat stage and 6 being the TTs or hard Mountain stages. So how do we think Merckx v Cav stacks up using the co-efficents.

As Cav himself once said(or something similar), he was really good at winning the piss poor easy stages. There is also an irony that some are saying Merckx had it easy, put Cav back pre sprint train era(90s) he would have won precious little. I simply will never rate a cyclist whose career consisted of sitting in the bunch all day and then sprinting at the finish.

For the record, the time cut on the infamous stage to Sestriere in 92 was about 55minutes, 5 more than stage 1 this year. The Sestriere stage was 50km longer, had twice as much climbing, came on the 13th stage and the climbing began from the start.

 

[Breezy1985]

Huh? The only one I saw diving across the whole road - and crashing Pedersen - was Philipsen...

Cavendish goes all the way from one barrier to the other.

 

[Izzyeviel]

Of all the stages to miss....

Cav watch is over. The end.

 

[Samamba]

So only Bauhaus relegated after todays sprint? The way it looked I would have done the same with Gaviria. They nearly took out half the field fighting for Philipsen's wheel.

Even Cav kinda pushes into Bauhaus there. Bit rough for the latter one given he was getting sandwiched in between them. Ok yes he gives a lil elbow, but Ive seen worse today.