Tour de France Tour de France 2025 Stage 11: Toulouse – Toulouse (156.8k)

[theyoungest]

Johannessen didn't do anything wrong btw. Everyone moved to the right except Pogacar, he just wasn't paying attention.

Of course his fans are going to look for a scapegoat, how dare you crash the great Pogi, but this kind of stuff happens in cycling... just not very often to Pogacar.

 

[Tim Cahill]

In a sprint finish, this wouldn‘t come up because Pogačar would also be taking the fastest line.

He also wouldn’t be on the radio with one hand on the bars going backwards

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Jorgenson basically saying that Pogacar should from now on keep his mouth shut about unsportsmanlike behavior.

Haha, who remembers Jorgenson blasting Pidcock on social media 6 years ago, after crashing in the rain on a descent in Tour de l'Avenir? Unfortunately, his post was removed.

 

[Forever The Best]

I mean, it's never ideal to crash, but Gianetti said it was nothing serious, and when has Gianetti ever told a lie?

Surely the last part is sarcasm.

 

[Rackham]

Attacks were flying off the front? After the climb, there was literally 1 'attack' from Narvaez, then the 2nd was Vauqelin, where Pog crashed. That's it. Nothing was happening at all.

Pog literally crashed because the group was fragmenting and attacks were happening.

 

[kingjr]

Haha, who remembers Jorgenson blasting Pidcock on social media 6 years ago, after crashing in the rain on a descent in Tour de l'Avenir? Unfortunately, his post was removed.

He did?

 

[theyoungest]

He will.

Pogi is just collecting receipts my friend.

With or without road rash, tomorrow he will serve a stomping to Jorgenson.

Jorgenson waited for him! Why should there be a bill to settle? He should thank him.

 

[theyoungest]

Surely the last part is sarcasm.

Well yeah of course. The guy shouldn't be in this position... just my opinion of course.

 

[Flamin]

Pog literally crashed because the group was fragmenting and attacks were happening.

I invite you to re-watch. Vauquelin attacked, yes. And everyone was about to jump to his wheel. To say attacks were flying off the front, or that there was little control, is stretching it big time. There was Narvaez and Jorgenson to reel in any potential danger.

 

[HashRouge]

I still think this shows Pogacar straightens a bit one or two seconds before they touch wheels (which is why from the moto view it looks like he moves to the left – he doesn't, but he does relative to the movement he had immediately before).

And, as mentioned, he was on the radio as the race suddenly moved to the right.

He was on the radio as some parts of the race moved right. Lots of riders hadn't reacted yet either. I've got no particular skin in this game bit it seems pretty obvious that the Uno-X rider was at fault - he overtook on the left, then chopped across too quickly. Like, I still think it was a complete accident and these things happen, but I don't really see how this could be viewed as Pog's fault.

 

[KoopaCycling]

You can’t necessarily judge crash by speed. Clearly Pog’s injuries are nowhere near as serious as Almeida’s and you don’t jump up as quickly as he does even if you have adrenalin if there is a serious structural issue (ie a fracture).

It is also fair that almost all crashes which involve road rash will leave that person in a less optimal position than if they had not crashed, that is not rocket science. How much a particular crash impacts varies on severity and individuals etc and it may also change strategy.

Instead of looking to attack he may try and play conservatively tomorrow and just try and follow, but it’s all speculation because as anyone who has ever crashed knows you don’t really know until the following day how you feel.

I’ve crashed banged my hip with relatively limited road rash and felt a lot worse than when i have skidded and taken off a lot of skin even if the latter meant i slept less!

I wasn't judging by speed. Pogacar was probably riding faster than almeida when their respective crash happened. i'm looking at how the crash went. They crashed and hit the pavement hard @Almeida. As in a hard impact. No doubt Pogacar felt that as well, but he slided. Kinda reminds me of when remco lost the corner during Belgian TT champs. Only Pogacar also hit his arm hard hitting the curb and stopping the slide whereas Remco fell into a ditch.

All in all i think the damage will be minimal. but i can be wrong ofcourse.

 

[stianbraathen]

He went left as THJ went right

Everyone went in a row like a snake as always, except POg who was on his radio and didnt notice.. THat was the problem, and he crashed. Its very simple. NO idea why this is a discussion even.

 

[bah]

Well Pogi has been pretty much complaining none stop when Visma do anything to make his life slightly more difficult. its a bit like when Pep guardiola or Klopp criticise teams that defend against them and dont let them easily win. when they play in a way that allows them to trounce them they are full of praise...

 

[markene2]

Pog did not even bother to talk to or acknowledge thj personal apology lol.

 

[stianbraathen]

No. THJ was eager to follow a move and was reckless in doing so. Causing the crash.

You clearly have never rode a bike race, you dont cause a crash by following the wheel in front of you. If ur front wheel get clipped when the rider in front of you follows the rider in front of him its YOUR fault. As Pog already told THJ after THJ went to hear if all was ok after the race.. Debate over.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

He did?

Yeah, of course, that was before Jorgenson himself completely blew up a day or two later and dropped out of GC. Had the order been reversed, he would probably not have been such a loudmouth. I don't remember the exact phrasing, but he basically said that Pidcock rode like a lunatic and got what was coming. At that time, both Jorgenson and Pidcock were considered race favorites. Pidcock obviously DNF after his crash, and Jorgenson finished 30 minutes down in GC.

 

[Unchained]

Ah yes, if anyone dares to critcize uae of pog they are worthless trash not worth anything. textbook uae behaviour your displaying.

Zero to do with my point TDF organization might want a complete do over, including the pageantry ,tradition in Paris.
Crashing is a thing, it's seldom important who's fault it is..part of racing.. The person who should have a strong opinion about what to do next after a crash is not brand new, different yellow jersey, no grand tour winner Jorgenson, no instead does Ben Healy want to keep yellow from deviation from the traditional behavior of the jersey. 2 great examples.. Ben Healy, infectious smile, gentlemen involuntarily.. and now Jorgenson doing a daily version of a rap video about just how gangster he is..hard to pull off with red hair and freckles but he has to try. Maybe all this off bike spewing of BS will pay off for Jorgenson, Visma, ultimately Vigegaard, typically being distracted with non race issues during the biggest race is wasted time..
Great movie about Jorgenson's style..

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1z4OF5okuLw&pp=ygUcbWFsaWJ1J3MgbW9zdCB3YW50ZWQgdHJhaWxlcg%3D%3D


He's from a little north

 

[Salvarani]

You clearly have never rode a bike race, you dont cause a crash by following the wheel in front of you. If ur front wheel get clipped when the rider in front of you follows the rider in front of him its YOUR fault. As Pog already told THJ after THJ went to hear if all was ok after the race.. Debate over.

Images show THJ is coming from behind and then cutting him over. It was reckless and caused the crash.

 

[moljoh]

He will.

Pogi is just collecting receipts my friend.

With or without road rash, tomorrow he will serve a stomping to Jorgenson.

It only takes one arm to hit the jackpot, destroy them Pogi

 

[Red Rick]

If Jonas had crashed instead and Pog had not waited, the same people who say they should not have waited for Pog would be howling in protest. And the thing is everyone here knows it.

Projection much?

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

So much expertise on this board. Amazing. It's shocking teams don't recruit for their DS positions from here.

 

[KoopaCycling]

I'm no Jorgenson fan cause he is a very tactical rider. Smart way to ride and it gives results. I'm also constantly harping on riders not riding smarter, but i kinda like the dudes that every now and then just say: here's goes nothing and just go.
But i also do not fault Visma for throwing the kitchen sink at Pogacar (so long as it remains sportive). In fact it's what you want to see. Them making it as hard as possible.

 

[theyoungest]

Well Pogi has been pretty much complaining none stop when Visma do anything to make his life slightly more difficult. its a bit like when Pep guardiola or Klopp criticise teams that defend against them and dont let them easily win. when they play in a way that allows them to trounce them they are full of praise...

Exactly. It's not Visma who b.tch and moan about UAE or Pogi, it's always the other way around. Even today Jorgenson was clearly reluctant to say anything about Pogi's comments earlier in the race, but he just couldn't help himself as it was such low hanging fruit (and good on him).

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Projection much?

Truth hurts, sorry.
I have no doubt Pog would have waited, just as Jonas did. But maybe riders have more respect than message board posters.

 

[Brullnux]

He was on the radio as some parts of the race moved right. Lots of riders hadn't reacted yet either. I've got no particular skin in this game bit it seems pretty obvious that the Uno-X rider was at fault - he overtook on the left, then chopped across too quickly. Like, I still think it was a complete accident and these things happen, but I don't really see how this could be viewed as Pog's fault.

I don't think being on the radio makes it Pogacar's fault, it was just badly timed.

I also think that you can see Pogacar straightening slightly just before they touch wheels – again, doesn't make it Pogacar's fault, but I think the prior direction of travel lulled THJ into angling in like that (it's a bit clearer from the moto shot, but you can see it from above, too; he drifts to the right about 1m when Lipowitz moves then straightens).

Genuinely, I think it was a racing incident, I don't really think either are particularly at fault – THJ went in too aggressively then the little straightening made the crash inevitable.