Tour de France Tour de France 2025, Stage 18: Vif - Courchevel Col de La Loze(171.5k)

[scribers]

What are feet?

Some people are into that sort of stuff.

Not me.

I experiment with metrics

 

[dobrien]

This is the one case where I prefer the British system over the metric, because it makes it seem like I climbed more. I feel good if I say I did 2500 feet today. But if I say that I climbed 760 meters, I feel like.. meh.

Well jeez, you could always just say you climbed 76000 centimeters then?! And millimeters? Oh baby!!

 

[scribers]

Let's go!!

​

 

[QueenStagiaire]

I would say it's the hardest stage since LGB in 2013, people forget this stage as there wasn't any GC action but it was a very hard stage in terms of elevation.

The LGB stage actually has less vertical meters than this one though, although I think the 2023 Loze stage is harder because they tackled a much harder side of the climb. In terms of pure vertical meters, tomorrow actually has the most since at least 2007 Aubisque where Rasmussen had the very last hurrah, but I think the vertical meters are more overestimated by mapping engines on that stage. 2006 La Toussuire where Landis blew up completely is close though and 2006 Pla de Beret is definitely above tomorrow in terms of vertical meters although that of course had a quite unselective last climb. That just goes to show how easy the Tour has gone on real massive vertical meter stages since the biggest doping scandals.

 

[Unterlenkerfahrend]

Is this the Madeleine side they used in 1998 where Ullrich and Pantani still hold the record?
I think it's the correct direction but a different road, or am I mixing that up?

 

[ashhutch1997]

Is this the Madeleine side they used in 1998 where Ullrich and Pantani still hold the record?
I think it's the correct direction but a different road, or am I mixing that up?

No its the classic side that was used in 1998. In 2020 they used a different road for 3/4 of the climb, before joining the classic side.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

What are feet?

They are legendary

 

[Tim Cahill]

Ullrich lost 9 minutes the day before then attacked Pantani at the foot of the climb. I didn't watch back then but had seen the stage years later and hadn't seen the footage again until just now, what I didn't catch was Pantani gifting him the stage but making it look like he didn't, what a guy.

 

[Unterlenkerfahrend]

No its the classic side that was used in 1998. In 2020 they used a different road for 3/4 of the climb, before joining the classic side.

Ah sick! So we might get a remake of this:

Ullrich lost 9 minutes the day before then attacked Pantani at the foot of the climb. I didn't watch back then but had seen the stage years later and hadn't seen the footage again until just now, what I didn't catch was Pantani gifting him the stage but making it look like he didn't, what a guy.

Yeah the situation was quite similar to the one right now, a desperate second (although he was actually third at this moment due to the 9 minute loss) attacking as early as possible and dragging the yellow jersey minutes away from everyone. I think they put over 2 minutes into everyone else just on the climb.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

Ah sick! So we might get a remake of this:

Yeah the situation was quite similar to the one right now, a desperate second (although he was actually third at this moment due to the 9 minute loss) attacking as early as possible and dragging the yellow jersey minutes away from everyone. I think they put over 2 minutes into everyone else just on the climb.

Ullrich was even 4th on GC at the time and only reclaimed 3rd on that stage.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Ah sick! So we might get a remake of this:

Yeah the situation was quite similar to the one right now, a desperate second (although he was actually third at this moment due to the 9 minute loss) attacking as early as possible and dragging the yellow jersey minutes away from everyone. I think they put over 2 minutes into everyone else just on the climb.

My hematocrit jumped 5 points just seeing this.

 

[Red Rick]

Well jeez, you could always just say you climbed 76000 centimeters then?! And millimeters? Oh baby!!

 

[dobrien]

Big story is obviously Pog vs Vingo; even if Jonas is almost certainly too far back to take yellow it will be fascinating to see if he has the legs to drop Pog or if people thinking Pog's form is starting to decline are just seeing what they want to see. There is really only one strategy Pog needs, and that is to follow Jonas. (Unless of course it's Jonas who shows weakness, in that case, chop off his head.)

Aside from that though of course the really big questions will be how Lipo handles the uncharted waters of being in a podium position this late into the Tour, is Primosz riding himself into podium winning form, and can Onley make some hay for himself as well. Should be a brutally interesting day, with another to follow on Friday.

Looking forward to getting some answers!

 

[Unchained]

Big story is obviously Pog vs Vingo; even if Jonas is almost certainly too far back to take yellow it will be fascinating to see if he has the legs to drop Pog or if people thinking Pog's form is starting to decline are just seeing what they want to see. There is really only one strategy Pog needs, and that is to follow Jonas. (Unless of course it's Jonas who shows weakness, in that case, chop off his head.)

Aside from that though of course the really big questions will be how Lipo handles the uncharted waters of being in a podium position this late into the Tour, is Primosz riding himself into podium winning form, and can Onley make some hay for himself as well. Should be a brutally interesting day, with another to follow on Friday.

Looking forward to getting some answers!

The new barometer is if Pogacar stands up!! That's the indicator that he is being put under pressure.. So far most everything from the front or back is with him sitting down @98% of the time.. He makes countering almost every move look effortless. Vingegaard is riding excellent.. Pogacar has had little trouble..

 

[houtdffan]

The LGB stage actually has less vertical meters than this one though, although I think the 2023 Loze stage is harder because they tackled a much harder side of the climb. In terms of pure vertical meters, tomorrow actually has the most since at least 2007 Aubisque where Rasmussen had the very last hurrah, but I think the vertical meters are more overestimated by mapping engines on that stage. 2006 La Toussuire where Landis blew up completely is close though and 2006 Pla de Beret is definitely above tomorrow in terms of vertical meters although that of course had a quite unselective last climb. That just goes to show how easy the Tour has gone on real massive vertical meter stages since the biggest doping scandals.

the problem with LGB 2013 was it was a neutered version of the 2004 stage (which was starting to approach Morzine 1983 in terms of difficulty)

 

[houtdffan]

No its the classic side that was used in 1998. In 2020 they used a different road for 3/4 of the climb, before joining the classic side.

there are 2 roads on the south side

It's why the south side of Madeline can be used as a pass if Gouvenou were to ever grow a pair

 

[Rob5091]

The only way at the moment that Pogacar would lose yellow is if he does a 2016 Kruijswijk and goes face first into some snow. I don't think Vingegaard has the "Nibali voodoo" but people have accused his wife of similar abilities.

Who knows, maybe it starts to rain and the whole stage is neutralized. I hope not, but these things do happen.
Anyhoo, how many new KOM records are we looking at today?

 

[Miha81]

The stage I was waiting for. I am looking forward to some fireworks. Last chance for TJV to make significant difference.

 

[solo80k]

Prepare yourself for an @solo80k attack tomorrow, it's the third week.

I'd like to see it but I still think that GC action will take place on Loze unless someone "is gone is dead".

 

[movingtarget]

O'Connor finally going to get it right from the break or do the GC favourites run them down again in the closing kms ?

 

[Berniece]

Visma all out on Glandon, Vingegaard attack on Madeleine. If Pogacar doesn’t crack there he should be fine

 

[KZD]

Hopefully we get a battle for the ages between Pogacar and Vingegaard.

I expect Pogacar to withstand all Vingegaard's attacks and then go solo in the last kilometers of Col de la Loze to win the stage.

 

[RedheadDane]

The only way at the moment that Pogacar would lose yellow is if he does a 2016 Kruijswijk and goes face first into some snow.

I think the availability of snow - even in the high mountains - is somewhat more limited in July than in May...

 

[Dazed and Confused]

O'Connor finally going to get it right from the break or do the GC favourites run them down again in the closing kms ?

I think there is a chance of a win from such a brave move if O'Connor was a tier one descender as Vinge/Pog are likely to go slow on the wet descents. In any case O'Connor should give it a go.

 

[MagliaNera]

It hasn't been the most exciting competition so far, but today and tomorrow will also be the decisive days for the KOM classification. If Pogacar wins the stage, he will take 40 points, so whoever wants to challenge him better takes both HC climbs (also 40 points) beforehand.

There are another 40 points during the stage + 20 points at the finish on offer tomorrow if I counted correctly, so if you're going for KOM and calculate somewhat pessimistically (Pog wins both stages and you don't score on the final climbs), you should have at least around 35 (better 40) points before today. That leaves only Lenny and Arensman (plus Woodsie and VPP with an outside chance) in the running...

Edit: Current KOM standings

Rank	Rider	Team	Points
1	Pogačar Tadej	UAE Team Emirates - XRG	60
2	Martinez Lenny	Bahrain - Victorious	60
3	Arensman Thymen	INEOS Grenadiers	48
4	Vingegaard Jonas	Team Visma | Lease a Bike	45
5	Woods Michael	Israel - Premier Tech	38
6	Paret-Peintre Valentin	Soudal Quick-Step	36
7	Healy Ben	EF Education - EasyPost	35