Tour de France Average Speeds

[BigBoat]

I'm not aware of Lemond's TT record course layout (which was beaten I think speed wise by Zabriskie in 2005??).

The higher the average speed usually the lower the average power output due to downhills and being forced to drop a few watts, especially with under gearing and such. Of course you could have a dead flat TT with close to a record speed and watts (well not in the aero position I guess) but as high as you can get in the aero position versus having to stop pedaling hard on downhills with corners and such.

 

[benlondon]

Doping on the Tour

I think EPO was there in the early 90s. Let's face it there's never been a Tour winner as physically big as Miguel Indurain before or since. He pioneered the closed mouth, relaxed climbing style that Greg Lemond has alluded to. In 88 he was 47th, in 89 he was 17th, in 90 he was 10th and from 91, when EPO first appeared on the scene he won it five times on the trot.
However the year EPO became really widespread on the Tour was 96. That was the tipping point where it became almost impossible to compete effectively without it. It was the year Monsieur 60 percent won it and the year the average speed topped 40km per hour for the first time.
Chris Boardman is the Mr Clean that you can use as a benchmark for the period. Of course Chris Boardman very generously puts the fact that he couldn't compete in Grand Tours down to his powers of recovery or lack of. But in 95 Boardman was well up there in the Dauphine Libere and performed really well on the climbs. You'd expect this from a 5ft 9 (175 cm) 10 1/2 stone (68 kilo) rider with a phenomenal power output. But from 1996 onwards Boardman (then 28 & should have been approaching his peak as a stage racer) he never achieved another good performance in a stage race.

 

[BigBoat]

I believe Boardman was jacked on epo but he did not use the "growth" (HGH) which hampered his recovery ability compared to those using testosterone, cortizone, HGH, slin, or IGF-1.

Maybe he could have won the Tour if he had jacked the recovery gear... Maybe he was to scared to use it though. Epo is a mild PED with almost no side effects if used properly.

I think Obree could have been clean though... he really went out of his way to say such. Can anybody find the Obree quote on doping?

 

[benlondon]

Boardman definitely clean

Any number of pros contemporary with Boardman have said the guy was famously clean. He wouldn't even accept vitamin injections. What evidence have you got to suggest he wasn't.

 

[Escarabajo]

I think EPO was there in the early 90s. Let's face it there's never been a Tour winner as physically big as Miguel Indurain before or since. He pioneered the closed mouth, relaxed climbing style that Greg Lemond has alluded to. In 88 he was 47th, in 89 he was 17th, in 90 he was 10th and from 91, when EPO first appeared on the scene he won it five times on the trot.
However the year EPO became really widespread on the Tour was 96. That was the tipping point where it became almost impossible to compete effectively without it. It was the year Monsieur 60 percent won it and the year the average speed topped 40km per hour for the first time.
Chris Boardman is the Mr Clean that you can use as a benchmark for the period. Of course Chris Boardman very generously puts the fact that he couldn't compete in Grand Tours down to his powers of recovery or lack of. But in 95 Boardman was well up there in the Dauphine Libere and performed really well on the climbs. You'd expect this from a 5ft 9 (175 cm) 10 1/2 stone (68 kilo) rider with a phenomenal power output. But from 1996 onwards Boardman (then 28 & should have been approaching his peak as a stage racer) he never achieved another good performance in a stage race.

Nice Info. Maybe that explains why Indurain could not win anymore. Since most riders were on the same stuff, he did not have the unique advange anymore. Or maybe other riders became more agressive in using EPO and less afraid of the treatment that they went to up 60% in the crit. Or 55% "Y Punto"

 

[slcbiker]

Seems to me only an uphill TT, track or the lab would provide accurate comparisons. TT's can definitely be affected by wind and turns. And aero equipment and wind tunnel usage has changed significantly since the 70s and 80s. Easily enough to account for speed gains.

 

[benlondon]

Yes, Indurain was out-gunned.

Nice Info. Maybe that explains why Indurain could not win anymore. Since most riders were on the same stuff, he did not have the unique advange anymore. Or maybe other riders became more agressive in using EPO and less afraid of the treatment that they went to up 60% in the crit. Or 55% "Y Punto"

96 was the year the Italian doctor Cecchini had a definite technical edge on the other doping doctors. His clients Riis and Ulrich were first and second in the Tour (with the notorious doper Virenque third) And three of his clients: Pascal Richard, Rolf Sørensen and Max Sciandri filled the podium at the Olympics road race that year. The pros even used to joke about it as 'Cecchini's year' apparently.

 

[Big_Blue_Dave]

I believe Boardman was jacked on epo but he did not use the "growth" (HGH) which hampered his recovery ability compared to those using testosterone, cortizone, HGH, slin, or IGF-1.

Maybe he could have won the Tour if he had jacked the recovery gear... Maybe he was to scared to use it though. Epo is a mild PED with almost no side effects if used properly.

I think Obree could have been clean though... he really went out of his way to say such. Can anybody find the Obree quote on doping?

With this post, I am now 100% positive (pun absolutely intended!!!) that you post complete and utter tripe as often as possible. The medical works that you write may be true, but that can always be copied and pasted from medical journals and medical forums. If you actually knew the people you write about, you would never make such statements.

Seeing as you and your "everybody dopes" buddies say that only those who say they have "never failed a test" dope but those who say "i've never taken anything" don't dope. You should know that Boardman always said he never doped, and always pushed for increased testing.

You act like you are a Mr Know-it-all, yet you have now proven to me you are Mr.Knows-F**k-All!!! Do yourself a favour and go all Jose Maria Jimenez for us!!!

 

[BroDeal]

With this post, I am now 100% positive (pun absolutely intended!!!) that you post complete and utter tripe as often as possible. The medical works that you write may be true, but that can always be copied and pasted from medical journals and medical forums. If you actually knew the people you write about, you would never make such statements.

Seeing as you and your "everybody dopes" buddies say that only those who say they have "never failed a test" dope but those who say "i've never taken anything" don't dope. You should know that Boardman always said he never doped, and always pushed for increased testing.

You act like you are a Mr Know-it-all, yet you have now proven to me you are Mr.Knows-F**k-All!!! Do yourself a favour and go all Jose Maria Jimenez for us!!!

What he does is spend a lot of time googling and then pretends to be an expert. He has used this same stunt on other forums. It is like the millionaire poster who ends up being a kid in his mother's basement.

In another thread I just called him on his assertion that Armstrong lost 10 - 12 pounds, which he stated with absolute authority, even though all the real data source we have, including Armstrong's under oath testimony, contradict that.

 

[BroDeal]

Nice Info. Maybe that explains why Indurain could not win anymore. Since most riders were on the same stuff, he did not have the unique advange anymore. Or maybe other riders became more agressive in using EPO and less afraid of the treatment that they went to up 60% in the crit. Or 55% "Y Punto"

Riis had a great year in '96. The following year the UCI instituted the 50% hematocrit and Indurain quickly retired before he was ever subject to hematocrit measurements. At his age he should have ridden for two more years.