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Tour De France Dream Stage Structure

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Feb 12, 2010
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No Alps and no Pyrenees but including every other mountain range in France, cobbles, short and sharp climbs to finish on.

Include a couple of laps up the climb to Montmarte on the last stage in Paris.
 
JohnNordin said:
Re the TT: make it a complicated course. Small roads, sharp turns, some climbs and then the last 5-6km dead flat and straight. Something that requires some technical work not just pure speed.

And certainly we have the technology to have a running clock of how far behind or head someone is against the leader - this 2 or 3 checkpoint thing is totally 1999.

Checkpoint makes it more interesting. Perhaps have a few more checkpoints.
But rolling clock would ruin the excitement imo.
 
Jun 23, 2010
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Reverend_T_Preedy said:
No Alps and no Pyrenees but including every other mountain range in France, cobbles, short and sharp climbs to finish on.

Include a couple of laps up the climb to Montmarte on the last stage in Paris.

Well said. The race has become, how'd you say predictable?. A little unpredictbilty would do it know harm. Puy du Dome, Cobbles etc for a shake up !!
 
Jul 19, 2010
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I like tour schedule alot. However, can we break up that first week of nothing but flat and get to the mountains a few days earlier, then have several flat stages at the end.
Also, how do we keep the final stage from being just a rerun show? Make it an ITT? Split stages on same day?
 
Jul 19, 2010
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Has anyone asked the icons of the sport thios question? Lets have Lemond, Merckx, Zoetemelk, or Van Impe design their favorite tour, or just their favorite stage and combine those into a tour, taking into acount sponsors money etc.
 
Putting the flat stages at the end seems odd too, since then everything's pretty much sorted by week 2 so why bother making it 3 weeks long?

I'd be in favour of putting some medium mountain stages in the first week to break up the GC, or cobbles or wind or something; the Giro normally gets this kind of thing spot on. Maybe put Super-Besse or Mende or somewhere like that in week 1; a stage like the one Haussler won in 2009 if we're going to be in the north of France, using the Vosges, Ardennes or Taunus ranges depending on where we're starting...

Maybe more of the full on Basque climbs before we get to the Pyrenées proper; the Basque country is full of shorter, smaller climbs than the Pyrenean climbs further inland, and that would be a nice way to set up the mountains.
 
Jul 19, 2010
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With some flat stages near the end, and assuming they put the bonus times back in, we coud see some really good racing by people close to eachother in the GC. Say separated by 39 seconds or less.
 
Jul 19, 2010
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True
Although some GC contenders have been known to sprint well, especialy if it can win them a grand tour.

How about Themed tours? Like famous battlefields, or cities ending on -aux?

Or famous french victories? Oh no, can we think of 21??
 
well, there's one over Col de la Madeleine, to Ax-3-Domaines and to Bagnères du Luchon in this year's race alone, one to Jausiers over the Col de la Bonette in 2008 and one over the Tourmalet in 2009 AND 2010, so while I appreciate the comic effect, it's more about French victories that were relevant to the GC that the joke should be aimed.
 
Jul 27, 2009
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How about a really brutal climb?

One thing the Tour doesn't have that the Giro does is a climb like the Mortirolo or Zoncolan. The kind of climb that's so steep, that even pros go up it so slowly that they don't derive significant advantage from drafting.

Surely there must be a sufficiently steep goat track somewhere in the French Alps or Pyrenees that could have some tarmac thrown on it for the purpose?
 
Jun 9, 2010
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rgmerk said:
One thing the Tour doesn't have that the Giro does is a climb like the Mortirolo or Zoncolan. The kind of climb that's so steep, that even pros go up it so slowly that they don't derive significant advantage from drafting.

Surely there must be a sufficiently steep goat track somewhere in the French Alps or Pyrenees that could have some tarmac thrown on it for the purpose?

Well lets go to Spain and climb the Angliru... that IS a CLIMB!
 
Reverend_T_Preedy said:
No Alps and no Pyrenees but including every other mountain range in France, cobbles, short and sharp climbs to finish on.

Include a couple of laps up the climb to Montmarte on the last stage in Paris.

True that there is no prologue in 2011.

Seems radical this suggestion of no alps or pyrenees, but it's certainly an interesting one. I think it would be good to get more medium mountain stages in for a start......maybe in one year this could be at the expense of a lot of the big mountain passes.

It was pointed out that the TDF doesn't have the REALLY steep climbs of the Giro. I also think that there has to be some goat track that is super steep that could be used. Are there any other climbs like Mende (3km at about 10%)? And what of these climbs in the basque country? Anything really steep?

I think that no alps or pyrenees is too big a change. Maybe a tour where they only have one day in each, but about 6-8 medium mountain stages plus maybe the Ventoux?
 
I'd like both of those, but if we're putting Austrian climbs, we should go to Sölden and put in the Rettenbachferner. Those would suit the Giro more, location-wise.

Also, Sölden to Bormio over the Timmelsjoch (early in the stage) and the Passo dello Stelvio = 165km, so you could finish there, climb to an MTF at Bormio 2000, turn left and do the Gavia and finish in Ponte di Legno or on Passo Tonale, or right, then do Mortirolo and Aprica, as a following stage. All good options.

I'd like to see the Vuelta use a couple of the Portuguese climbs, as well, but then again the Spanish GT has some stellar climbs in its own territory that it doesn't use.

For the Tour, well, since they do use Sestrières, why not the Colle delle Finestre and loop back to Sestrières like the 2005 Giro? I also like the idea of Vallorbe Juraparc as a finish for the last stage before the Alps - that made for an interesting and picturesque finish in the Tour de Suisse.

I am also keen on opening gaps from the word go. Start with a road stage with a short but sharp uphill finish. Mende would be great, but you could also use a steepish climb in Luxembourg, anywhere near borders, heck, use the Colline de Fourvières in Lyon - finish outside the Basilique! That would be a wonderful finish as the gaps that it opened would still be very small, but it would be more exciting than a prologue.

I'd also like them to use the Alpes-Maritimes climbs more; Braus in particular is a favourite. What about a stage into Nice over the Col d'Eze for a first stage?

If we want a prologue, why not make it a bit different, and hold it up the Muur van Gerardsbergen or the Mur de Huy? At the moment, with no time bonuses, it is basically "give Fabian Cancellara the yellow jersey until stage 7", which is predictable and no fun. Put a medium mountain finish, or a mountaintop finish but not one that's too selective, or a descent from a descent sized mountain, in stage 3 or 4. Like the Giro climbing to San Martino di Castrozza, for example.
 
Jul 19, 2010
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Libertine Seguros said:
well, there's one over Col de la Madeleine, to Ax-3-Domaines and to Bagnères du Luchon in this year's race alone, one to Jausiers over the Col de la Bonette in 2008 and one over the Tourmalet in 2009 AND 2010, so while I appreciate the comic effect, it's more about French victories that were relevant to the GC that the joke should be aimed.

I meant french military victories, you know, like Alesia, Waterloo, Blenhein, Crecy, etc...
 
Jul 19, 2010
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[

If we want a prologue, why not make it a bit different, and hold it up the Muur van Gerardsbergen or the Mur de Huy? At the moment, with no time bonuses, it is basically "give Fabian Cancellara the yellow jersey until stage 7", which is predictable and no fun. .[/QUOTE]

I love it. that way, they could give out KOM points right away as well.
 
Mar 14, 2009
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rgmerk said:
One thing the Tour doesn't have that the Giro does is a climb like the Mortirolo or Zoncolan. The kind of climb that's so steep, that even pros go up it so slowly that they don't derive significant advantage from drafting.

Surely there must be a sufficiently steep goat track somewhere in the French Alps or Pyrenees that could have some tarmac thrown on it for the purpose?

who needs pavement? i remember most my training roads out in western va were fireroads in the mountains. on road i named woodstock trail road had to have the switchbacks paved so trucks could get up there. another road named tanner's ridge raod which leads up the skyline drive had to be paved up to the national park boundary to have any chance of ascend. the first half mile averaged over 27 percent. if you sat down and climbed your front wheel would come off the ground. if you stood your back tyre would spin. after that if kicked up about 5 more times before you hit the dirt section. descending it resembled riding off the edge of the earth. man i wish i could design a Giro stage in 2012. The gc would be over before they got back to Italy
 
well, the first two stages are already designed, so we can start from the 3rd:

stage 1: flat stage
stage 2: TTT
stage 3-4: flat stages (quite long) heading south
stage 5: long stage (240 km or so) to San Sebastian or Hendaye, with several basque climbs and the Jaizkibel in the final
stage 6: hilly stage Hendaye-Pau or something like that
stage 7: 60km ITT around Pau, flat or hilly
stage 8: Pau - Bagnères-de-Bigorre, high mountains (Marie Blanque, Aubisque, Tourmalet, 35km descent to the finish)
stage 9: Bagnères-de-Bigorre - Foix, medium mountains (col des Ares, portet d'Aspet, col de la Core, col de Peguère-last 3.5km @ 13% average, last 28km are downhill-flat)
stage 10: Foix - Pla Guillem, high mountains ( Port de Pailhères, col de Jau, mtf Pla Guillem). The mtf has its summit at 2300m, is 22km long @ 8.5%, the last 10km are unpaved @ 11.5% average (eat this, monte zoncolan or kronplatz)
well deserved rest day
stages 11-15 flat, hilly or medium mountain stages towards Cuneo in Italy
stage 16: Cuneo -Briançon: long high mountains stage (colle d'Esischie, col de Sampeyre, Colle del'Agnello, col d'Izoard). Esischie summits at 2366m, is 20.6km @ 7.5%, last 7km @ nearly 10%; Sampeure summits at 2284m and is 16.5km @ 8.3%; Agnello summits @ 2744m and is 26km @ 6.2%, last 10km @ 9.3%; Izoard is a french climb ;-)
rest day (or after stage 17)
stage 17: Briançon - Val thorens: high mountains with mtf (Galibier, madeleine, Val Thorens)
stage 18: last Alpine stage, starting in Moûtiers to Morzine, Chambéry, Aix-les-Bains or Yenne, finishing downhill after the climb of the Joux Plane (for Morzine) or Mont du Chat (for the other towns). Mont du chat from the west side is 8km @ 11%, from the east side 12 km @ 9.5%
stage 19: long hilly TT somewhere around genève
stage 20: flat stage
stage 21: flat stage to paris (or stage 19 can be a flat regular stage, and 21 a long TT to paris)
 
Aug 3, 2009
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My dream Tour:

Prologue: Roubaix ITT (7 km in the streets before the finish inside the velodrome)
Stage 1: Roubaix - Brüssel (Some cobbles at the start, but no decisive ones)
Stage 2: Brüssel Circuit (Laps of 10 km to be repeated 10-15 times. Fast and intense racing)
Stage 3: Maastricht - Bastogne (Some steep hills that favour the puncheurs)
Stage 4: Bastogne - Metz (Flat stage)
Stage 5: Lunéville - Ballon d'Alsace (Same type of stage as the one to Station des Rousses this year)
Stage 6: Mulhouse - Bern (Some challenging climbs halfway, but none decisive. A stage for a sprinter with climbing abilities.)
Stage 7: Neuchâtel - Morzine (Mountain stage with either Col de la Ramaz or Col de Joux-Plane before descending down to Morzine.)
Stage 8: Mountain stage with downhill finish
Stage 9: Embrun - Sestriere (Queen stage. Col d'Izoard, Col de Montgenevre, Colle delle Finestre and Sestriere. With an "easy" climb at the end, the riders will have to attack on the Finestre to gain time)
Stage 10-12: Flat transition stages at the Mediterraneen coast.
Stage 13: 50-60 km long ITT
Stage 14: Mazamet - Plateau de Beille (Same as 2007)
Stage 15: Foix - Loudenvielle (Tough climbing stage with Col de Port, Col de la Core, Col du Portet d'Aspet, Col de Mente, Col du Portillon and Col de Peyresourde before descending down to Loudenvielle)
Stage 16: Luchon - Superbagnères ITT (Mountain time trial up Superbagnères)
Stage 17: Luchon - Luz Ardiden (Short and intense mountain stage at about 100 km with Col de Peyresourde, Col d'Aspin, Col du Tourmalet and Luz Ardiden)
Stage 18: Starting in Argèles-Gazost with Col d'Aubisque from the "easy side" at the start, before 100 flat kilometers.
Stage 19: Flat stage
Stage 20: Versailles - Champs-Élysées ITT (Same as in 1989)
 

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