Tour De France Dream Stage Structure

[icefire]

It was pointed out that the TDF doesn't have the REALLY steep climbs of the Giro. I also think that there has to be some goat track that is super steep that could be used. Are there any other climbs like Mende (3km at about 10%)? And what of these climbs in the basque country? Anything really steep?

Do some research on google or your favorite climb database:
Artaburu/Errozate
Issarbe
Soudet/Arette de St Martin
Larrau

 

[jaylew]

1.5 - 2km prologue on a hill. Not necessarily a Mur de Huy, but something challenging.

-The last in the daily GC is out of the race.

Love these two ideas. Also more stages(particularly during the boring 1st week) with "Valverde finishes" like they did in 2008.

How about an ITT that starts at the base of a major climb but finishes after the descent? That would combine ascending/descending abilities.

 

[ericthesportsman6]

My dream Tour:

Prologue: Roubaix ITT (7 km in the streets before the finish inside the velodrome)

Holy crap, that would be awesome!

 

[auscyclefan94]

Here are the first actual rumours for the 2011 tdf coming from steephill.

1- Sam 2/ Noirmoutiers - Mont des Alouettes
2- Dim 3/ C.L.M. aux Essarts
3- Lun 4/ Olonnes - Redon
4- Mar 5/ Lorient - Chateaulin
5- Mer 6/ L'Aber Vrach' - Saint-Brieuc
6- Jeu 7/ Dinan - Lisieux
7- Ven 8/ Alençon - Tours
8- Sam 9/ Tours - Limoges
9- Dim 10/ C.L.M. au lac de Vassivière
10- Lun 11/ Limoges - Saint Flour avec Néronne (2C), Pas de Peyrol (1C),
Perthus (2C), Lioran (3C), Prat de Bouc (2C)
Mar 12/ repos au Lioran
11- Mer 13/ Aurillac - Lavaur
12- Jeu 14/ Toulouse - Luz-Ardiden avec Aspin (1C), Tourmalet (HC),
Luz-Ardiden (HC)
13- Ven 15/ St Gaudens - Limoux avec Larrieu (3C), Port (2C), Montségur (2C),
Saint-Benoit (3C)
14- Sam 16/ Carcassonne - Nimes
15- Dim 17/ Nimes - Dignes
Lun 18/ repos
16- Mar 19/ Dignes - Risoul avec Allos (1C), Vars (1C), Risoul (1C)
17- Mer 20/ Embrun - Pinerollo avec Izoard (HC), Montgenèvre (2C), Sestrière (1C),
PraMartino (2C)
18- Jeu 21/ Pinerollo - Col du Lautaret avec Mont-Cenis (HC),
Télégraphe (1C), Galibier (HC)
19- Ven 22/ Bourg d'Oisans - L'Alpe d'Huez avec Grand Cucheron (2C), Glandon (HC),
L'Alpe d'Huez (HC)
20- Sam 23/ C.L.M. Grenoble - Chamrousse (HC)
21- Dim 24/ Provins – Paris

 

[Libertine Seguros]

why not go over the Colle delle Finestre then finish in Sestrières, then just transfer to Pinerolo?

That one would open up the GC mix.

 

[craig1985]

why not go over the Colle delle Finestre then finish in Sestrières, then just transfer to Pinerolo?

That one would open up the GC mix.

Is that the one with the gravel and used in the 2005 Giro where Savoldelli descended like a nutcase to keep his lead in the Giro? If so, that was a classic stage. Come on ASO, you know it makes sense.

 

[jobiwan]

Here are the first actual rumours for the 2011 tdf coming from steephill.

1- Sam 2/ Noirmoutiers - Mont des Alouettes
2- Dim 3/ C.L.M. aux Essarts
3- Lun 4/ Olonnes - Redon
4- Mar 5/ Lorient - Chateaulin
5- Mer 6/ L'Aber Vrach' - Saint-Brieuc
6- Jeu 7/ Dinan - Lisieux
7- Ven 8/ Alençon - Tours
8- Sam 9/ Tours - Limoges
9- Dim 10/ C.L.M. au lac de Vassivière
10- Lun 11/ Limoges - Saint Flour avec Néronne (2C), Pas de Peyrol (1C),
Perthus (2C), Lioran (3C), Prat de Bouc (2C)
Mar 12/ repos au Lioran
11- Mer 13/ Aurillac - Lavaur
12- Jeu 14/ Toulouse - Luz-Ardiden avec Aspin (1C), Tourmalet (HC),
Luz-Ardiden (HC)
13- Ven 15/ St Gaudens - Limoux avec Larrieu (3C), Port (2C), Montségur (2C),
Saint-Benoit (3C)
14- Sam 16/ Carcassonne - Nimes
15- Dim 17/ Nimes - Dignes
Lun 18/ repos
16- Mar 19/ Dignes - Risoul avec Allos (1C), Vars (1C), Risoul (1C)
17- Mer 20/ Embrun - Pinerollo avec Izoard (HC), Montgenèvre (2C), Sestrière (1C),
PraMartino (2C)
18- Jeu 21/ Pinerollo - Col du Lautaret avec Mont-Cenis (HC),
Télégraphe (1C), Galibier (HC)
19- Ven 22/ Bourg d'Oisans - L'Alpe d'Huez avec Grand Cucheron (2C), Glandon (HC),
L'Alpe d'Huez (HC)
20- Sam 23/ C.L.M. Grenoble - Chamrousse (HC)
21- Dim 24/ Provins – Paris

That would make for a very interesting and physically demanding Tour.

And does C.L.M. mean time trial? If so, a mountain time trial to decide the Tour would be amazing! And following the same route as 2001.

Pretty good tribute to the Alps if you ask me.


Of course, these are just rumors, but how awesome would that be if they were true?

 

[craig1985]

If it's of any help, stage two will be a TTT. That is for certain.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

CLM = Contre la Montre.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Is that the one with the gravel and used in the 2005 Giro where Savoldelli descended like a nutcase to keep his lead in the Giro? If so, that was a classic stage. Come on ASO, you know it makes sense.

That's the one, with Simoni and di Luca fighting to distance Savoldelli, Rujano clinging to their back wheels, other riders seemingly pacing Savoldelli, deals, intrigue and carnage, di Luca cramping up and Rujano finally dropping Simoni to win. Great stage.

 

[DAOTEC]

Oct 13th 2010 11:53 | An outrageous Tour de France 2011

7 mountain stages+ - 7 sprinter stages - and ?? ... to be announced October 19 !!

Prediction TdF stages 2011 -- of what we know till now:

1: Passage du Gois - Mont des Alouettes (uphill)
2: Les Essarts TTT 23 km
3: Olonne-sur-Mer - Redon
4: Lorient - Mûr de Bretagne (uphill)
5: Carhaix-Plouguer - Cap-Fréhel
6: Dinan - Lisieux
7: Le Mans - Chateauroux
8: Aigurande - Super Besse (uphill)
9: Issoire - Saint-Flour (uphill)
-restday (Lioran)
10: Aurillac - Lavaur
11: regio Toulouse ITT
12: Blagnac - Bagnères-de-Bigorre (uphill)
13: Tarbes - Lourdes (bergrit)
14: Saint-Gaudens - Plateau de Beille (uphill)
15: Limoux - Montpellier
-restday (Nimes)
16: Nimes - Gap
17: Embrun - Pinerolo (uphill)
18: Torino - Col du Galibier (uphill)
19: Modane - L'Alpe d'Huez (uphill)
20: Grenoble - Chamrousse - ITT (mountain)
21: Provins - Parijs Champs Elysées


Latest rumour ... the riders have to climb the L'Alpe d'Huez twice according to John Wilcockson of Velonews

When Christian Prudhomme, the Tour de France race director, unveils the route for the 2011 Tour in Paris on October 19, he may have some startling news about next year’s race. And I’m not talking about Alberto Contador and the chance his 2010 title will be taken from him. What could jolt the audience is that when the peloton climbs to the top of L’Alpe d’Huez two days before the Paris finale that the riders could hear bell ring: one more lap!

Outrageous? Maybe. But ....

Source: http://velonews.competitor.com/2010/10/news/inside-cycling-with-john-wilcockson-two-times-up-the-alpe-in-the-2011-tour-de-france_146182
.

 

[Jamsque]

Uphill finish after the Passage du Gois? Awww. There go my hopes of Cav completing his set of GT leader's jerseys.

 

[jens_attacks]

no chance for time bonuses?

 

[Dalakhani]

I'd like

(1) Time bonuses brought back for 1-2-3 on each stage.

(2) Mountain TT.

(3) Equal points for the finish on every non-TTT stage. Make the points jersey less of a sprinters jersey, more of a points jersey.

(4) Fewer bland flat stages. As someone said, make the sprinters work for it. Even if it's just an uphill finish.

(5) Pavee each year.

Steve

 

[rghysens]

Uphill finish after the Passage du Gois? Awww. There go my hopes of Cav completing his set of GT leader's jerseys.

htc can still win the ttt the day after. If cav doesn't lose any significant time on the mont des Alouettes (it isn't more difficult than the poggio), he can claim the leader's jersey.

 

[rghysens]

I'd like

(1) Time bonuses brought back for 1-2-3 on each stage.

(2) Mountain TT.

(3) Equal points for the finish on every non-TTT stage. Make the points jersey less of a sprinters jersey, more of a points jersey.

(4) Fewer bland flat stages. As someone said, make the sprinters work for it. Even if it's just an uphill finish.

(5) Pavee each year.

Steve

1) no
2) yes
3) no
4) you'll get some
5) only the first and the last km's of the tour. (passage du gois and champs elysées )

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Uphill finish after the Passage du Gois? Awww. There go my hopes of Cav completing his set of GT leader's jerseys.

Both the ones he has came from the TTT, hardly a sparkling indictment.

Evans having worn the leaders' jersey in the last 3 GTs he's entered is pretty awesome, however - though I think it's for a total of four days (two in the Giro - won on stage 2, lost in the TTT on stage 4; one in the Vuelta - won on Aitana, lost on Xorret del Catí thanks to time bonus; one in the Tour - won on Avoriaz, lost over the Col de la Madeleine).

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

sparkling indictment.

Your hatred of Cav leads you to come out with some extremely odd turns of phrase.


What next, a glowing accusation, and maybe a positive censure?

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

htc can still win the ttt the day after. If cav doesn't lose any significant time on the mont des Alouettes (it isn't more difficult than the poggio), he can claim the leader's jersey.

He'd need to be number 1 HTC rider up the hill - seems unlikely.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

3) no

for the record, I think Cav would have won green this year if they had the same system as both the Giro and Vuelta (25, 20, 16, 14, 12, 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 on every stage)(I calculated it up a couple of days from the end of the race but never completed the calculations).

I don't see what's wrong with that stage. After all, it's the points jersey, not the points for flat stages jersey. Unless you make the race completely un-sprinter-friendly like the Giro was this year, then the sprinters will always have a good chance at the jersey anyway.

Here are the last 10 points jersey winners at the Giro:
2001 - Massimo Strazzer (secondary sprinter)
2002 - Mario Cipollini (sprinter)
2003 - Gilberto Simoni (GC man)
2004 - Alessandro Petacchi (sprinter)
2005 - Paolo Bettini (all-rounder)
2006 - Paolo Bettini (all-rounder)
2007 - Alessandro Petacchi (sprinter)
2008 - Daniele Bennati (sprinter)
2009 - Danilo di Luca (GC man)
2010 - Cadel Evans (GC man)

- seems like a pretty good mix. Three times a GC contender has won it, four times a pure sprinter has won it, with another time for a guy who's a sprinter but not an élite type one (Strazzer also loved the Intergiro), and two for Paolo Bettini, who is the kind of rider who should be able to do well in a well-balanced points competition.

Now, for the Vuelta, which has an identical points system:

2001 - José María Jiménez (GC man)
2002 - Erik Zabel (sprinter)
2003 - Erik Zabel (sprinter)
2004 - Erik Zabel (sprinter)
2005 - Alessandro Petacchi (sprinter)
2006 - Thor Hushovd (sprinter)
2007 - Daniele Bennati (sprinter)
2008 - Greg van Avermaet (secondary sprinter)
2009 - André Greipel (sprinter)
2010 - Mark Cavendish (sprinter)

Clearly the routes of the Vuelta, plus the withdrawal of many key contenders making it easy for the jersey-holding sprinters to accumulate large points in final-week flat stages, make a sprinter's victory in the competition much more likely. However, it is not impossible for a GC man to take it, as Jiménez proves, and often a GC man is 2nd or 3rd in the classification - Valverde held the jersey for a few days in both 2008 and 2009.

The Tour's points classification biases points in favour of the sprinters, but because it offers places so far down in flat stages points, the difference between points tallies are smaller, percentage-wise, than in the Giro and Vuelta. There isn't as much of a reward for winning stages compared to placing 2nd or 3rd (the Volta a Portugal offers an even more winner-biased system of 25-20-16-13-10-8-6-4-2-1).

The points classification winners at the last 10 Tours are:
2001 - Erik Zabel (sprinter)
2002 - Robbie McEwen (sprinter)
2003 - Baden Cooke (sprinter)
2004 - Robbie McEwen (sprinter)
2005 - Thor Hushovd (sprinter)
2006 - Robbie McEwen (sprinter)
2007 - Tom Boonen (sprinter)
2008 - Óscar Freire (sprinter)
2009 - Thor Hushovd (sprinter)
2010 - Alessandro Petacchi (sprinter)

Yes, some of those "sprinters" are more versatile (Boonen, Freire, Hushovd) but the list of names shows how the jersey is much more of a sprinter's thing than the Giro or Vuelta. The Giro/Vuelta system, when applied to the routes of the Tour, would certainly not stop sprinters winning the jersey. It might add another level of competition - see Gilbert competing for the Vuelta's points jersey this year, and Bettini's two wins in the Giro's points competition. Making it feasible for the likes of Edvald Boasson Hagen to compete for it as well as the Cavs and Hushovds of the world would likely make it a more interesting competition, in my opinion, because those riders would be chasing points on different stages, and trying to get into the top 15 of sprints for the minor points would be key.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

...And take away the radios (and loud-hailers in team cars) from the ITT so the riders have no splits timing while you're at it.

Shoot, for a little change of pace to spark some excitement I'd like to see no race radios on a couple stages including a hilly stage and on one mountain stage... provided there are few hazards like traffic furniture that would make radios worth having.

 

[Carlo Algatrensig]

Latest rumour ... the riders have to climb the L'Alpe d'Huez twice according to John Wilcockson of Velonews



Source: http://velonews.competitor.com/2010/10/news/inside-cycling-with-john-wilcockson-two-times-up-the-alpe-in-the-2011-tour-de-france_146182
.

Is that even possible? I'm probably wrong but I thought Alpe d'Huez was a "road to nowhere". i.e. the road finishes when it gets to the top so the riders would have to descend down the road they just came up while others are still climbing it if they want to do it twice in one stage

 

[roundabout]

Is that even possible? I'm probably wrong but I thought Alpe d'Huez was a "road to nowhere". i.e. the road finishes when it gets to the top so the riders would have to descend down the road they just came up while others are still climbing it if they want to do it twice in one stage

Yes, it's possible.

http://www.steephill.tv/2006/col-de-sarenne/

Google Col de Sarenne for more info if you're interested

 

[Carlo Algatrensig]

Yes, it's possible.

http://www.steephill.tv/2006/col-de-sarenne/

Google Col de Sarenne for more info if you're interested

Thanks for that.

I'm sure that the commentators always used to say that there was only one way up the mountain and so only one way down it.

 

[dsut4392]

Shoot, for a little change of pace to spark some excitement I'd like to see no race radios on a couple stages including a hilly stage and on one mountain stage... provided there are few hazards like traffic furniture that would make radios worth having.

Fully agree. I may not have said so in the post you responded to, but my belief is that radios should be banned in all stages including TTs, and any communication with DS's should require the rider to drop back to the team car to hear non-amplified advice (including TTs). I.e. if you want to know something from your DS, you have to take the chance of at best losing a little time, and at worst missing a move from a competitor.