Tour de France Femmes 2025 (July 26th- August 3rd)

[Libertine Seguros]

Oh come on LS, they had 24 hrs to prepare the PR event they already probably had contingencies for.

Of course the French are going to big this up. And this will be a fraction of what you get if the England football team ever win anything important.

The finale on Sunday just felt egregious. Took me out of the joy of the moment. I can't really say anything to change that, it was how I felt. The fact everybody else was joyful and loved the moment can't change that I wasn't and didn't. I'm sorry.

Two weeks with two rest days, Friday to Sunday for a total of 15 stages. That should be possible within 10 years, maybe even 5. Then the femmes can finish in Paris as well.

Volta a Portugal format (11 days, Wednesday to Sunday with a rest day in the middle) in the short term, 15 stages like the old Vuelta a Colombia format in the medium to long term. That's what I'd hope for.

That would also allow space to explore more than one mountain range, but make one of them intermediate/smaller, maybe using some tougher Massif Central or Vosges stages before a finale in the Alps or Pyrenées for example. They can use the lesser media requirements for the TdFF to utilise smaller ski stations and towns as hosts for stages in those ranges, and the depth of the péloton will allow some of the climbs that might just become a tempo grinder in the men's race to still have some potential to make serious differences in the women's race. Take the climbs around to the south of Saint-Étienne, or around Mont-Sainte-Odile in the Vosges.

Why are the tactics so... crap? The descending and positioning skills are more inconsistent than in the men's peloton too. Is this because the top women don't come together to race often enough (fewer race days per year or career)? Don't they have DSes telling them what to do?

One of the main reasons, I would suspect, is that for a long time the lack of money and investment in women's cycling meant a lot of race organisers were volunteers or underfunded organisations doing it as a passion project. As a result only the absolute elites were able to afford to be full-time pros and dedicate themselves entirely to the sport as their career. As they were then better prepared and trained, they would then flood the front pages of results, bogarting the majority of the prize money, and creating a self-fulfilling prophecy.

As a result I think there are a fair few who have largely been able to coast on success using a strategy of brute force and so get lost or panic when no longer able to just raw power their way to glory, or where perplexing and counterintuitive strategies from the team car have wound up working just because the riders are strong enough to overpower their rivals regardless. Sometimes the DSes are no better than the riders either. Loes Gunnewijk in the Dutch team car in 2021 with a bunch of her friends on the bikes, not wanting to offend anybody by telling them to domestique for each other, or Anna van der Breggen... just Anna van der Breggen. Her time in the team car was largely tactically disastrous, usually only being bailed out by other teams doing SD Worx' job for them. Her disasterpiece in the 2024 TDFF is either the clumsiest misjudgement of strength in depth or a masterfully-executed sabotage.

 

[theyoungest]

The finale on Sunday just felt egregious. Took me out of the joy of the moment. I can't really say anything to change that, it was how I felt. The fact everybody else was joyful and loved the moment can't change that I wasn't and didn't. I'm sorry.

That final was pretty much all thanks to FDJ's poor tactics. Really, Demi Vollering could and maybe even should have won that stage. I can understand if you feel the win on the Madeleine is a little... too impressive, but if it's Sunday's stage that leaves you with that feeling, really, PFP wasn't even that strong. You could clearly see she was suffering like a dog to make it to the finish.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

That final was pretty much all thanks to FDJ's poor tactics. Really, Demi Vollering could and maybe even should have won that stage. I can understand if you feel the win on the Madeleine is a little... too impressive, but if it's Sunday's stage that leaves you with that feeling, really, PFP wasn't even that strong. You could clearly see she was suffering like a dog to make it to the finish.

Really? She was isolated for 90km, never looked in danger once, then rode away like prime Pogačar to just drive the nail in. You can say that the fact she was never put in danger despite being isolated so long is due to FDJ's poor tactics, but the way she so dismissively rode away and made sure to build enough of a lead to make sure the finish line photos were perfect was one step away from Froome and Poels mocking Dumoulin on Cervinia in its flaunting of dominance.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

Really? She was isolated for 90km, never looked in danger once, then rode away like prime Pogačar to just drive the nail in. You can say that the fact she was never put in danger despite being isolated so long is due to FDJ's poor tactics, but the way she so dismissively rode away and made sure to build enough of a lead to make sure the finish line photos were perfect was one step away from Froome and Poels mocking Dumoulin on Cervinia in its flaunting of dominance.

Is that for them sprinting to the line or something else? I guess Froome should have dropped back with him in the last few meters and that wouldn‘t be considered mocking?

 

[Wyndbrook]

As a French rider PFP's win was just what the race and womens cycling needed.
Great that ASO resurrected the race, but there is obviously a limit to how much they are prepared to invest. Its fairly well reported that it was only the financial investment and drive from Zwift that got the race over the line.
A French winner and the resultant publicity will strengthen the races future.

 

[theyoungest]

Really? She was isolated for 90km, never looked in danger once, then rode away like prime Pogačar to just drive the nail in. You can say that the fact she was never put in danger despite being isolated so long is due to FDJ's poor tactics, but the way she rode away to make sure the finish line photos were just perfect was one step away from Froome and Poels mocking Dumoulin on Cervinia in its flaunting of dominance.

PFP was isolated, but she didn't actually have to do anything. When it came to the final, what was Demi Vollering's one chance of winning that stage? In the sprint. What did Demi Vollering do? Try to attack the strongest rider in the race, whom she was never going to drop in a million years, and who had just followed the wheel for two hours. What did Demi achieve by that? Drop her teammate.

Really, FDJ couldn't have played it more perfectly for PFP if they tried.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Is that for them sprinting to the line or something else? I guess Froome should have dropped back with him in the last few meters and that wouldn‘t be considered mocking?

It's the sprinting away, slowing down and waiting for him, only to then sprint off again to demonstrate that they were just playing with him.

As a French rider PFP's win was just what the race and womens cycling needed.
Great that ASO resurrected the race, but there is obviously a limit to how much they are prepared to invest. Its fairly well reported that it was only the financial investment and drive from Zwift that got the race over the line.
A French winner and the resultant publicity will strengthen the races future.

Precisely. And this is why it is very convenient that Pauline - a popular French rider who already has a public presence established - returns and immediately wins. And that's why it had that impression to me when everything fell so perfectly into place for her not just to win, but win in the most perfect way imaginable for the press, for the photos, for the publicity. UCI, ASO and the French media couldn't have scripted it any better, couldn't have asked for a better final shot of the race. And that's what made me feel a little uncomfortable about it.

PFP was isolated, but she didn't actually have to do anything. When it came to the final, what was Demi Vollering's one chance of winning that stage? In the sprint. What did Demi Vollering do? Try to attack the strongest rider in the race, whom she was never going to drop in a million years, and who had just followed the wheel for two hours. What did Demi achieve by that? Drop her teammate.

Really, FDJ couldn't have played it more perfectly for PFP if they tried.

When it came to the final, she was already 20 seconds behind PFP, who went away a few kilometres from the finish, waltzing away without a care in the world. It was a huge and somewhat unnecessary power play, but I guess she had to make sure that given Kasia could still attack Demi over 2nd place, that she had enough time in hand that they wouldn't ruin the photographs of the yellow jersey arriving at the line by appearing in the background.

 

[theyoungest]

When it came to the final, she was already 20 seconds behind PFP, who went away a few kilometres from the finish, waltzing away without a care in the world. It was a huge and somewhat unnecessary power play, but I guess she had to make sure that given Kasia could still attack Demi over 2nd place, that she had enough time in hand that they wouldn't ruin the photographs of the yellow jersey arriving at the line by appearing in the background.

If you really want this to be true, I assume reality is just a bother, but the fact is Vollering attacked first which she shouldn't have done and which made no tactical sense whatsoever. Then PFP countered and the rest is history.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

If you really want this to be true, I assume reality is just a bother, but the fact is Vollering attacked first which she shouldn't have done and which made no tactical sense whatsoever. Then PFP countered and the rest is history.

It's not about who attacked first, it was how she attacked. Potentially yes, she waited until Demi made a move and basically gave the green light, and then it was "ok, now we stop playing around". It made it feel to me like she could have done it anytime she wanted, like we have been watching with Pogačar all season, like the whole thing up to that point was performative.

Maybe I've become too disillusioned by too many races with Pogačar running rings around people, or UAE sending del Toro out to the GP Some Small Basque Village to shoot fish in a barrel, but it just made the whole thing seem like, hey, the GC action got started three hours ago, but we were never actually watching a race, because the outcome was never in doubt. Not that it was scripted, but that there was no jeopardy.

Sorry. Again, that's how it made me feel, and I can't change that, and I won't pretend not to feel like that because it was a lovely moment for French cycling.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

It's not about who attacked first, it was how she attacked. Potentially yes, she waited until Demi made a move and basically gave the green light, and then it was "ok, now we stop playing around". It made it feel to me like she could have done it anytime she wanted, like we have been watching with Pogačar all season, like the whole thing up to that point was performative.

Maybe I've become too disillusioned by too many races with Pogačar running rings around people, or UAE sending del Toro out to the GP Some Small Basque Village to shoot fish in a barrel, but it just made the whole thing seem like, hey, the GC action got started three hours ago, but we were never actually watching a race, because the outcome was never in doubt.

Well, I believe she attacked at the most logical point to attack, on the penultimate climb 5k from the finish. Attack later and you might as well sprint for it and the last logical point before that was over 30k out with a long valley ahead. If you think attacking at the most sensible point is performative then maybe you are just not being fair here at all.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Well, I believe she attacked at the most logical point to attack, on the penultimate climb 5k from the finish. Attack later and you might as well sprint for it and the last logical point before that was over 30k out with a long valley ahead. If you think attacking at the most sensible point is performative then maybe you are just not being fair here at all.

It's literally in the post - it wasn't that she attacked, it was how easy it was, that made it seem like she could have done it whenever she wanted, however she wanted.

I just didn't enjoy it or get the warm fuzzy "wow this is great for cycling" feeling. I've just got through a month of a race that was basically jockeying for position until the mountains arrived near the end, and then one comically overpowered rider plays with the opposition like toy soldiers. It felt like the women's race was the same thing, only this time I'm supposed to feel good about it.

 

[theyoungest]

It's not about who attacked first, it was how she attacked. Potentially yes, she waited until Demi made a move and basically gave the green light, and then it was "ok, now we stop playing around". It made it feel to me like she could have done it anytime she wanted, like we have been watching with Pogačar all season, like the whole thing up to that point was performative.

Maybe I've become too disillusioned by too many races with Pogačar running rings around people, or UAE sending del Toro out to the GP Some Small Basque Village to shoot fish in a barrel, but it just made the whole thing seem like, hey, the GC action got started three hours ago, but we were never actually watching a race, because the outcome was never in doubt. Not that it was scripted, but that there was no jeopardy.

Sorry. Again, that's how it made me feel, and I can't change that, and I won't pretend not to feel like that because it was a lovely moment for French cycling.

PFP had just been sitting in the wheel for two hours. What did you expect, or more relevant to the race, what did the rival teams expect? Of course she was going to be the strongest in that group on that climb. She probably would have been regardless, but certainly now, without having done any work. What you do in that case is save all your energy for the moment she attacks, if she attacks, and certainly save your teammate in the case you have to close a gap for the final sprint.

I didn't particularly like the final either, but for the reason I've been trying to explain: the opponents made it too easy for her, and made it indeed seem like she was Pogacar in female form, Joan of Arc on a bike. Which is the image you dislike, but which was very much not a given.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I didn't particularly like the final either, but for the reason I've been trying to explain: the opponents made it too easy for her, and made it indeed seem like she was Pogacar in female form, Joan of Arc on a bike. Which is the image you dislike, but which was very much not a given.

I felt that while the others certainly didn't do their best tactically, the fact is that they never had a chance of overturning the GC, but the level of dominance of that final move showed that they never had a chance of winning the stage either.

That would be one thing, but it was then heavily exacerbated by the presentation of it, the soliloquies on the magic #51, Audrey Cordon-Ragot crying on commentary, and everything associated, turned it into a sycophantic festival of jingoism that really took me out of the moment. They laid it on so thick that it made me uncomfortable with how perfect what I was watching matched with the outcome and the imagery that the organisers, the UCI and the media would have wanted.

And sure, that in-the-moment reaction may have impacted rational thought and affected how hindsight replays these events in my memory. But that's how I saw it and felt about it at the time.

 

[Sciatic]

I like Demi, but lol at this quote: “I’m proud of my weight and want to set a good example. I hope that in the future I can win again with my weight and show girls that you don’t have to be super, super skinny."

Come on, you got beaten fair and square and it wasnt even close. Simply got beaten by a way better rider. Imagine Pogi or Jonas saying that about each other after a crushing defeat - the optics are not good!

Would be hilarious if Bananito liked Demi’s post

 

[Sciatic]

The nuance behind my post is that male riders, especially climber, types need to be as skinny as possible, which seems to be accepted by their competitors. I can't remember a male rider talking about their weight when discussing another rider, unlike Vollering who is creating aspercions about PFP loss of weight. I am certain that PVP would have worked closely with the nutritionist and Doctor at Visma.

It was in a different way (and alluded more to another issue) but at the start of the Pogacar/Vingegaard dominance there were some comments from a few male pros (perhaps former) re: “since when do skinny guys win flat TTs” (paraphrase). But I think the reference was more to how they got so skinny while maintaining power output.

 

[Sciatic]

Professional athletes don't get paid because they do something objectively useful for society, like building houses or curing diseases. They are paid to be public figures, and that includes being role models for children and young adults. If athletes were not role models, we would cease to have professional sport, as (1) the sponsorship model would not work and (2) if children didn't look up to sportspeople, we would not have a next generation of athlete.

Since children are idolizing these sportspeople, we shouldn't allow the sportspeople to model excessively unhealthy behavior like eating disorders. This was one of the things that bugged me about the Chris Froome era (more than Lance, say).

I don't much follow women's cycling, but abstractly, I'd be in favor of enforced competition breaks for amenorrhea. I'd be in favor of something similar for men, although it may be harder to define an objective cutoff.

You better start with NFL offensive linemen if you’re going to tackle that problem (of sports stars being unhealthy)..

 

[Sciatic]

Also this sounds like an argument for ditching wada. What is the basis for clean sport if not rider health?

Whether it makes sense or not, I think professionally in cycling (and equivalents in many other sports) there is a big difference between rider health and rider safety. Many sports could be considered unhealthy compared to living a joe- or Jane- average lifestyle. And I think that this conceptual divide (healthy:safety) also exists in society (or in least the culture I live in). Folks who raise all kinds of alarms about certain food ingredients or lifestyle choices don’t consider getting in their car unhealthy, even if it is a greater statistical threat to their long-term survival.

 

[Sciatic]

Sponsors don't care if riders use methods that aren't banned. Drugs that are potentially dangerous are disallowed. The few that aren't (caffeine, minor painkillers, asthma meds under the supervision of a doctor), aren’t.

I think you’ll have to explain this comment. Most of the drugs on the banned list are there because they are performance enhancers or an aide (masking) to performance enhancement. I doubt that when you hear a friend is using hydrocortisone cream, or Sudafed, or casually smoking MJ you would say they are dangerous. But they are banned PEDs.

 

[Skalman]

I like Demi, but lol at this quote: “I’m proud of my weight and want to set a good example. I hope that in the future I can win again with my weight and show girls that you don’t have to be super, super skinny."

Come on, you got beaten fair and square and it wasnt even close. Simply got beaten by a way better rider. Imagine Pogi or Jonas saying that about each other after a crushing defeat - the optics are not good!

Talk about sore loser, Im just glad she got beat and handily at that

 

[Sciatic]

Talk about sore loser, Im just glad she got beat and handily at that

Tell me which losers aren’t sore about losing? Some just open their mouths more than others,

 

[Unchained]

It's not about who attacked first, it was how she attacked. Potentially yes, she waited until Demi made a move and basically gave the green light, and then it was "ok, now we stop playing around". It made it feel to me like she could have done it anytime she wanted, like we have been watching with Pogačar all season, like the whole thing up to that point was performative.

Maybe I've become too disillusioned by too many races with Pogačar running rings around people, or UAE sending del Toro out to the GP Some Small Basque Village to shoot fish in a barrel, but it just made the whole thing seem like, hey, the GC action got started three hours ago, but we were never actually watching a race, because the outcome was never in doubt. Not that it was scripted, but that there was no jeopardy.

Sorry. Again, that's how it made me feel, and I can't change that, and I won't pretend not to feel like that because it was a lovely moment for French cycling.

So when Remco goes to the same village, race has dignified status, and he is hunting big fish? Remco may have a San Sebastian tattoo for all we know ..Pauline has won everything she put her mind to..not bad for a mountain bike racer or cyclocross standout, or part time, semi retired road rider..she fits in any or all categories!!
Most pundits don't see the cherry picking scenario for any rider discussed..
Pogacar raced 21 stages..4 in his column.. Pauline raced 9..2 for her..neither rider destroyed anyone just raced great when it counted..
Cheer up man!! Let the light in France has multiple points of light!!
Pogacar showing that he is human!! And Mexican food has added great bike racing to the benefits!!

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ak_dZvkYz3Q&pp=ygUMY3ljbGluZyBkYW5l

 

[Izzyeviel]

Prize Money from the Tour de france femme avec zwift

Visma - 76,000 Euros
FDJ-Suez - 54,000
UAE - 26,000
AG Soudal - 23,500
SD Worx - 20,000
Canyon - 15,000
Lidl - 8,000
Picnic - 7,000
EF - 6,500
Jayco - 6,000
Fenix - 5,000
Human Powered Health - 2,500
Arkea - 2,500
Cofidis - 2,000
VolkerWessels - 1,500
Movistar - 1,500
Ceratizit - 700 Euros
Uno X -490
St Michel -homepreference-auber 93 - 460
Roland 320
Laboral - 310
Winspace -290

 

[jmdirt]

It's literally in the post - it wasn't that she attacked, it was how easy it was, that made it seem like she could have done it whenever she wanted, however she wanted.

I just didn't enjoy it or get the warm fuzzy "wow this is great for cycling" feeling. I've just got through a month of a race that was basically jockeying for position until the mountains arrived near the end, and then one comically overpowered rider plays with the opposition like toy soldiers. It felt like the women's race was the same thing, only this time I'm supposed to feel good about it.

I'd send you a PM to discuss this, but because there might be a 17 year old on here we can't do that anymore.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

So when Remco goes to the same village, race has dignified status, and he is hunting big fish? Remco may have a San Sebastian tattoo for all we know ..Pauline has won everything she put her mind to..not bad for a mountain bike racer or cyclocross standout, or part time, semi retired road rider..she fits in any or all categories!!
Most pundits don't see the cherry picking scenario for any rider discussed..
Pogacar raced 21 stages..4 in his column.. Pauline raced 9..2 for her..neither rider destroyed anyone just raced great when it counted..
Cheer up man!! Let the light in France has multiple points of light!!
Pogacar showing that he is human!! And Mexican food has added great bike racing to the benefits!!

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ak_dZvkYz3Q&pp=ygUMY3ljbGluZyBkYW5l

I like Remco now? That's news to me.

Apart from that, all I interpret from this is "it's nice for France to win and PFP is above criticism. Let us/them have our/their hugbox".

I'm sorry. I'm just recounting how I feel about how things played out, and people are demanding I justify not getting the heart-eyes emoji out because they're not happy that I feel like that. Like I said before, I don't even dislike her and never have - although if this fan and media whitewashing and propaganda offensive continues long-term I could see that changing. Which, come to think of it, is a lot like Remco. I don't have any problem with Evenepoel, but his fans can be a chore.

 

[Netserk]

Tell me which losers aren’t sore about losing? Some just open their mouths more than others,

I don't think Onley was the least bit sore about his 4th place in the Tour.