Tour de France Stage 2 Brussels - Spa, 192 km Monday, July 5 2010

[Barrus]

Yep. Rabo are ****ed off because Gesink crashed before the giant crash, and no one waited for him (bit of an ego that Bobby G, thinking he on his own is important enough to wait for). They also say they didn't agree with the neutralization but didn't have the guts to speak up during the race.

Menchov and Freire didn't want to ride, although the DS screamed at them to ride

 

[Cerberus]

I hope you're kidding? Because he's right of course. If no one is waiting for him, why should he wait for the others?

Because one GC contender crashing presumably under normal racing conditions =/almost every GC contender crashing under very abnormal conditions. There's a lot of factors in determining whether one should wait, but this incident was almost as clear a case for waiting as you can possibly get.

 

[Teddler]

Thought this was interesting from Sastre:

"We took the initiative to start racing again as Thor Hushovd, Jérémy Hunt and I were in the leading group but no-one was helping us. Then Fabian Cancellara told Thor that the race had been neutralised and we weren’t receiving any information on the radio. The race was stopped and then all the people who had taken a fall came back into the main group."

How did Cancellara know when others didn't?
Did he lie to stop them riding?
Was he just hoping it would be?

Hopefully today lives up to my anticipation

 

[TourOfSardinia]

Sparticus of the oppressed!

How did Cancellara know when others didn't?

I guess like a good Spartacushe emerged as the natural leader among men at the moment of uprising - uprising from the fallen bike!

 

[kukiniloa]

Stage 2 Car nage

So there was oil on the road, and it had been raining. I've personally seen a hydraulic fluid spill that made the road like black ice, so I don't find it at all unlikely that this was an act of domestic terrorism. Another strange thing about it is how poor and scant the video coverage of the crashes was. There is a lot of room for wild speculation here, which I don't have time for, but it does seem dubious that this event was an accident. How would oil, or some vehicle fluid, get spilled in large quantity on such a back road, an apparently single-lane back road. Hardly the road on which you frequently expect to find large farm vehicles or trucks, for instance.

OK, I've belabored that point enough. The good signs are that we saw the Tour leader, the Maillot Jaune, show some leadership. Even if that leadership was totally self-serving, with Andy Schleck having gone down quite hard.

From the accounts I've read, such as Chris Horner's Oregonian column, most riders were attacking the downhill anyway, which just worsened the situation. If riders want to attack the descents they have to accept the risks.

Given the dramatics of today, the tacit and casually accepted agreement in the peloton that the finish would be neutralized, indicative of the magnitude of pain suffered yesterday, we can expect things to be somewhat formulaic tomorrow. Which is disappointing, because these guys are all professionals, and we deserve to see some racing. Any particular American fan wants to see Radio Shack create some chaos when they hit the pave.

And this is pertinent to the PLAN, the plan Lance Armstrong has to win the Tour. And pretty much everything in that plan has to work for him to win, mind you, and it is pretty unlikely that all those things will happen. But it is safe to say that Step 1 on Lance Armstrong's Plan was to get time on all his rivals in the Prologue, which he has achieved. The next step is to cause as many rivals as possible to lost time in the first few wild and unpredictable stages. Much like last year when his inter-team rival lost time on a crosswind blown stage in northern France.

But hats off to Chavanel...I'm sure this forum has already discussed the context of his victory. But that's pretty clear. He went really early, 17k in or so (?) and probably did benefit from the mayhem. But he showed his strength well in getting rid of his companions so deliberately.

 

[Barrus]

So there was oil on the road, and it had been raining. I've personally seen a hydraulic fluid spill that made the road like black ice, so I don't find it at all unlikely that this was an act of domestic terrorism. Another strange thing about it is how poor and scant the video coverage of the crashes was. The Tour has been plagued, over the years, by various labor unions using the disruption of the race as a tool to get media coverage, and apply some pain where it hurts. I'm certain that this sort of issue raises some interest in the French government, who are generally interested in caving in to the interests of labor unions. It only makes sense that if this was a deliberate act, the perpetrator wants to keep their identity secret, because the person the act was intended to harm personally knows the perpetrator. Quite some speculation, but it does seem dubious that this was an accident. How would oil, or some vehicle fluid, get spilled in large quantity on such a back road, an apparently single-lane back road. hardly the road on which you frequently expect to find large farm vehicles or trucks, for instance.

OK, I've belabored that point enough. The good signs are that we saw the Tour leader, the Maillot Jaune, show some leadership. Even if that leadership was totally self-serving, with Andy Schleck having gone down quite hard.

From the accounts I've read, such as Horners Oregonian column, most riders were attacking the downhill anyway, which just worsened the situation. If riders want to attack the descents they have to accept the risks.

Given the dramatics of today, the tacit and casually accepted agreement in the peloton that the finish would be neutralized, indicative of the magnitude of pain suffered yesterday, we can expect things to be somewhat formulaic tomorrow. Which is disappointing, because these guys are all professionals, and we deserve to see some racing. Any particular American fan wants to see Radio Shack create some chaos when they hit the pave.

And this is pertinent to the PLAN, the plan Lance Armstrong has to win the Tour. And pretty much everything in that plan has to work for him to win, mind you, and it is pretty unlikely that all those things will happen. But it is safe to say that Step 1 on Lance Armstrong's Plan was to get time on all his rivals in the Prologue, which he has achieved. The next step is to cause as many rivals as possible to lost time in the first few wild and unpredictable stages. Much like last year when his inter-team rival lost time on a crosswind blown stage in northern France.

But hats off to Chavanel...

Are you really serious at what you're saying?
Because if so

It was oil that leaked from the fallen motor

 

[Cerberus]

So there was oil on the road, and it had been raining. I've personally seen a hydraulic fluid spill that made the road like black ice, so I don't find it at all unlikely that this was an act of domestic terrorism. Another strange thing about it is how poor and scant the video coverage of the crashes was. The Tour has been plagued, over the years, by various labor unions using the disruption of the race as a tool to get media coverage, and apply some pain where it hurts. I'm certain that this sort of issue raises some interest in the French government, who are generally interested in caving in to the interests of labor unions. It only makes sense that if this was a deliberate act, the perpetrator wants to keep their identity secret, because the person the act was intended to harm personally knows the perpetrator. Quite some speculation, but it does seem dubious that this was an accident. How would oil, or some vehicle fluid, get spilled in large quantity on such a back road, an apparently single-lane back road. hardly the road on which you frequently expect to find large farm vehicles or trucks, for instance.

That's a very nice theory, but the fact is that a motorcycle crashed and spilled the Oil less than a minute before the Peleton got there. No mystery, no conspiracy, just a freak accident. Occam's razor is your friend

 

[Hawkwood]

...And this is pertinent to the PLAN, the plan Lance Armstrong has to win the Tour. And pretty much everything in that plan has to work for him to win, mind you, and it is pretty unlikely that all those things will happen. But it is safe to say that Step 1 on Lance Armstrong's Plan was to get time on all his rivals in the Prologue, which he has achieved. The next step is to cause as many rivals as possible to lost time in the first few wild and unpredictable stages. Much like last year when his inter-team rival lost time on a crosswind blown stage in northern France.

But hats off to Chavanel...

Five seconds on Contador is really going to help when it starts going upwards!

+1 for Chavanel, and also a great result for Quick Step, France, Eddy Merckx bikes etc.

 

[craig1985]

I have time or interest to go back through the thread, and I will say is congratulations to Chavanel. It's been a perfect start for Quick Step in this Tour.

 

[Cerberus]

I have time or interest to go back through the thread, and I will say is congratulations to Chavanel. It's been a perfect start for Quick Step in this Tour.

Well don't post that in this thread! This thread is for *****ing about the riders waiting for the GC contenders after the crash and/or neutralizing the stage, *****ing about the aforementioned *****ing and *****ing about the *****ing about the *****ing. If you want to congratulate the stage winner you'll have to start you own thread about that, not derail this one.

 

[craig1985]

Well don't post that in this thread! This thread is for *****ing about the riders waiting for the GC contenders after the crash and/or neutralizing the stage, *****ing about the aforementioned *****ing and *****ing about the *****ing about the *****ing. If you want to congratulate the stage winner you'll have to start you own thread about that, not derail this one.

Touchè.

Well played sir.

 

[htvhlb]

Seems to me on reflection that Riis & Cancellera were able to grasp the situation quicker than anybody else....Saxo had the most to lose with both of their team leaders 3 minutes behind once things had settled down...so no wonder Cancellera was telling everyone to slow down.
The biggest losers were Cervelo with Hushovd & Sastre in the leading group. Hushovd had a chance to win the stage and gain a big advantage in the points competition with both Cav & Farrar way down....and Sastre appears to have been the only Overall contender to have made it so he lost a chance to gain time on everyone else.
It's pretty obvious that if a couple of other team leaders had made it into that leading group like Contador or Armstrong with team-mates there, the racing would not have stopped....and it might well have cost Saxo Bank any chance of winning the race.
Would the racing have stopped if everyone knew the Schlek's were 3 minutes down and 2 minutes behind the Armstrong/Contador group?
So it's pretty clever what Cancellera did.

 

[tgsgirl]

Because one GC contender crashing presumably under normal racing conditions =/almost every GC contender crashing under very abnormal conditions. There's a lot of factors in determining whether one should wait, but this incident was almost as clear a case for waiting as you can possibly get.

I agree with Cerberus, and I do it using 10 characters or more.

 

[Cerberus]

Idem.
Idem.
Idem.

I'll stop repeating what has been said before, when people stop asking questions questions that have already been answered. Perhaps you should complain to those people.

 

[Sørensen]

Buhuhuhuh evil Cancellara is ruining my Tour de France experince

 

[tgsgirl]

I'll stop repeating what has been said before, when people stop asking questions questions that have already been answered. Perhaps you should complain to those people.

Sorry, someone asked me the question and you expressed my opinion perfectly, so I just wanted to agree. The triple idem was simply to comply to the stupid length rule, I didn't mean to be sarcastic!

 

[Cerberus]

Sorry, someone asked me the question and you expressed my opinion perfectly, so I just wanted to agree. The triple idem was simply to comply to the stupid length rule, I didn't mean to be sarcastic!

No problem, I (obviously) thought you were complaining about what I wrote, perhaps I just should ask for clarification when I have to look up a word before replying to a post.

 

[esaklamati]

mr

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[BYOP88]

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You need to send me $250,000 in used bills then your dreams will come true.

 

[gregrowlerson]

With the 2011 TDF on the horizon I think it is time to re-ignite some Cancerella-Schleck's hatred!

This was the stage that angered me more than any other I have seen. Sure, if the crashes had happened early on it would be typical to wait (though they still didn't wait for Mayo in '04), but when the mayhem occurred it was already full gas being applied by the peloton - in the quest to chase down Chavannel. It's BS to say that too many riders crashed; that's racing. Logically it should be easier (and fairer) to wait when only one rider goes down, such as with Vino in '07.

Oh wait, they didn't wait then either!

 

[Bavarianrider]

That was unsportsmanship behavior at it's worst. Most disgusting thing i've ever whitnesses in a cycling race.
But what's even worse then Cancellaras actions on this satge was Schleck's behavior afterwards. Even in thi current Tour programm he still speaks about the contador attack. But no single word that without the neutralization of this stage he wouldn't have been anywhere close to the podium in the first palce.
Every cycling fan who whitnessed this stage and the actions afterwards can only have one feeling towards Cancelara Schleck and Riis. Disgust

 

[woodie]

That was unsportsmanship behavior at it's worst. Most disgusting thing i've ever whitnesses in a cycling race.
But what's even worse then Cancellaras actions on this satge was Schleck's behavior afterwards. Even in thi current Tour programm he still speaks about the contador attack. But no single word that without the neutralization of this stage he wouldn't have been anywhere close to the podium in the first palce.
Every cycling fan who whitnessed this stage and the actions afterwards can only have one feeling towards Cancelara Schleck and Riis. Disgust

Um what? Over half the field crashed, over half, waiting for people to regroup was absolutely the right thing to do, it's good to see some unity among the riders. The conditions were dangerous and they made a decision, we should respect that.

Remember these guys ride their bikes to make a living, they support themselves and their families by racing their bikes, yes its dangerous, i know that, but they need to be able to say 'no this is too dangerous'

 

[Bavarianrider]

Um what? Over half the field crashed, over half, waiting for people to regroup was absolutely the right thing to do, it's good to see some unity among the riders. The conditions were dangerous and they made a decision, we should respect that.

Remember these guys ride their bikes to make a living, they support themselves and their families by racing their bikes, yes its dangerous, i know that, but they need to be able to say 'no this is too dangerous'

You wanna tell me that Cancellara would have done this too if Schleck had not gone down.
Like he waited on the cobble stage. Oh wait

 

[woodie]

You wanna tell me that Cancellara would have done this too if Schleck had not gone down.
Like he waited on the cobble stage. Oh wait

Sure, the Schlecks crashing had a lot to do with it, i recognise that, but did over half the field crash at the same time in increasingly dangerous conditions? Who were they meant to wait for on the cobble stage? Don't forget they lost an important rider in Frank on that stage when he crashed.

Sometimes you have to make a call on the go and the riders did that. You weren't racing so you don't fully understand what was going on. You are however entitled to your opinion.

 

[Bavarianrider]

Sure, the Schlecks crashing had a lot to do with it, i recognise that, but did over half the field crash at the same time in increasingly dangerous conditions? Who were they meant to wait for on the cobble stage? Don't forget they lost an important rider in Frank on that stage when he crashed.

Sometimes you have to make a call on the go and the riders did that. You weren't racing so you don't fully understand what was going on. You are however entitled to your opinion.

I am pretty sure the vast majority of non Schleck fans shares my opinion