Tour de San Luis 2016

[canyonball]

Viviani on Twitter

"A mente fredda faccio le mie SCUSE a tutti i tifosi, al @TourSanLuis e alla @Federciclismo per il mio brutto gesto di ieri, non è da me . non me l'aspettavo,ero nero,e fuori controllo,la mia è stata una scelta(sbagliata),ma fatta perchè non ero certo di poter controllarmi"

He doesn't mention or congratulates Mareczko

 

[Brullnux]

Re: Re:

Viviani is really funny. What is he exactly angry about? Ok so maybe Mareczko was supposed to lead him out. But as they entered the finishing straight Viviani was in ideal position behind Etixx and could launch a perfect sprint without need for any lead-out. At the same time Mareczko, spared the lead-out duty, was not far behind and also decided to sprint. And was faster than Viviani. So what? It's his teammate, so Viviani should be equally glad also for his win, no? And be happy for their 1-2. But no, he does not even come for the award ceremony to congratulate the teammate. If that's not sign of injured pride, then what is?

The roles were clearly defined and Mareczko should have sat up as far as I'm concerned Viviani has a right to be pissed, Swift, Fenn or Rowe wouldn't of done that.

'Italy' isn't an actual team though, is it. Mareczko has no allegiance to it: it's not like they're gonna fire him; he's got nothing to lose, and a big win to gain. I really hope that Swift, Fenn and Rowe would do the same if riding for GB a stage race, otherwise I feel there is some character lacking in them. Sometimes it's better to just do what you want and ignore team orders and just stop being robots. You have your own needs. If you're faster on the day, younger, less big wins then go for it! In the end you have just won your team a stage.

 

[MatParker117]

Re: Re:

Viviani is really funny. What is he exactly angry about? Ok so maybe Mareczko was supposed to lead him out. But as they entered the finishing straight Viviani was in ideal position behind Etixx and could launch a perfect sprint without need for any lead-out. At the same time Mareczko, spared the lead-out duty, was not far behind and also decided to sprint. And was faster than Viviani. So what? It's his teammate, so Viviani should be equally glad also for his win, no? And be happy for their 1-2. But no, he does not even come for the award ceremony to congratulate the teammate. If that's not sign of injured pride, then what is?

The roles were clearly defined and Mareczko should have sat up as far as I'm concerned Viviani has a right to be pissed, Swift, Fenn or Rowe wouldn't of done that.

'Italy' isn't an actual team though, is it. Mareczko has no allegiance to it: it's not like they're gonna fire him; he's got nothing to lose, and a big win to gain. I really hope that Swift, Fenn and Rowe would do the same if riding for GB a stage race, otherwise I feel there is some character lacking in them. Sometimes it's better to just do what you want and ignore team orders and just stop being robots. You have your own needs. If you're faster on the day, younger, less big wins then go for it! In the end you have just won your team a stage.

They'd never ride for there country again if they did that though Rod Ellingworth would never select them again.

 

[Armchair cyclist]

If Mareczco was capable of reaching the finish line before Viviani, then Mrezco was Italy's best chance of winning.
If Marezco, as last leadout, was still going fast enough that Viviani either couldn't or had no need to pass him, then the penultimate leadout rider kept Marezco in his slipstream for longer than is ideal.

Marezco does not know until Viviani passes him whether Viviani has the legs to win: if he can secure the team without needing to trust to that unknown, he has done what he should.

If Viviani expects others to value a win for the team, even if it is not an individual triumph, he should learn to do the same.

And if he cannot trust himself as to how he would behave on the podium (his reason for his non-appearance), he should seek employment that does not put him in a public spotlight.

 

[Brullnux]

Re: Re:

Viviani is really funny. What is he exactly angry about? Ok so maybe Mareczko was supposed to lead him out. But as they entered the finishing straight Viviani was in ideal position behind Etixx and could launch a perfect sprint without need for any lead-out. At the same time Mareczko, spared the lead-out duty, was not far behind and also decided to sprint. And was faster than Viviani. So what? It's his teammate, so Viviani should be equally glad also for his win, no? And be happy for their 1-2. But no, he does not even come for the award ceremony to congratulate the teammate. If that's not sign of injured pride, then what is?

The roles were clearly defined and Mareczko should have sat up as far as I'm concerned Viviani has a right to be pissed, Swift, Fenn or Rowe wouldn't of done that.

'Italy' isn't an actual team though, is it. Mareczko has no allegiance to it: it's not like they're gonna fire him; he's got nothing to lose, and a big win to gain. I really hope that Swift, Fenn and Rowe would do the same if riding for GB a stage race, otherwise I feel there is some character lacking in them. Sometimes it's better to just do what you want and ignore team orders and just stop being robots. You have your own needs. If you're faster on the day, younger, less big wins then go for it! In the end you have just won your team a stage.

They'd never ride for there country again if they did that though Rod Ellingworth would never select them again.

Then Rod Ellingworth upholds his inept image as apparently he'd rather lose than be flexible; uphold the already decided hierarchy that Ellingworth probably picked depending on who he liked, rather than let the fastest and strongest man win, just because he was told that he should've been leading out a man that has won more than him, is older, has more experience, instead of seizing the initiative when he realised he can win. Carpe diem.

Viviani has every right to be angry: with himself. Not Mareczko. He lost to someone who is stronger. It is ofc more bitter when you believe that the man who beat you should be leading you out, but you got beaten nonetheless. Of course it's nice winning your first race of the season, but it's not like he lost out to the guy who's meant to be mentoring him, or training him to win. He lost out to the guy he's meant to be mentoring; training. He should be happy for him, after the rage phase ends.

If Ellingworth were to decide never to pick Marczko again, then he would really be a fool.

 

[rote_laterne]

Re:

If Mareczco was capable of reaching the finish line before Viviani, then Mrezco was Italy's best chance of winning.
If Marezco, as last leadout, was still going fast enough that Viviani either couldn't or had no need to pass him, then the penultimate leadout rider kept Marezco in his slipstream for longer than is ideal.

Marezco does not know until Viviani passes him whether Viviani has the legs to win: if he can secure the team without needing to trust to that unknown, he has done what he should.

If Viviani expects others to value a win for the team, even if it is not an individual triumph, he should learn to do the same.

And if he cannot trust himself as to how he would behave on the podium (his reason for his non-appearance), he should seek employment that does not put him in a public spotlight.

Good post.

 

[jaylew]

Re:

If Mareczco was capable of reaching the finish line before Viviani, then Mrezco was Italy's best chance of winning.
If Marezco, as last leadout, was still going fast enough that Viviani either couldn't or had no need to pass him, then the penultimate leadout rider kept Marezco in his slipstream for longer than is ideal.

Marezco does not know until Viviani passes him whether Viviani has the legs to win: if he can secure the team without needing to trust to that unknown, he has done what he should.

If Viviani expects others to value a win for the team, even if it is not an individual triumph, he should learn to do the same.

And if he cannot trust himself as to how he would behave on the podium (his reason for his non-appearance), he should seek employment that does not put him in a public spotlight.

I hear you but that's not at all how it played out.

He was supposed to work for Viv, which even he acknowledged. You can even see him in the replay working for him but they got separated in the last few k (or TM drifted back behind Viv purposely). He was actually somewhere behind Viv the entire last couple of Ks. Viv blew past the other sprinters and had a clear lead and win until TM went for it on the inside. He wasn't trying to do anything other than beat Viv and win the race. This wasn't one of those situations where the leadout man was so fast that the designated sprinter couldn't come around in time. TM wasn't trying to protect Viv in any way, he just wanted to win.

Now, I'm not saying he was 100% wrong in doing that but it's the kind of thing that will be noticed and could have an effect when future team selections are made.

Personally, I don't think it's as big a deal as it would have been if they were trade teammates but it does say a little about the guy, in the same way not showing up on the podium says something about Viv. Not shocking, they're sprinters and they often have big attitudes and egos.

 

[MatParker117]

Re: Re:

If Mareczco was capable of reaching the finish line before Viviani, then Mrezco was Italy's best chance of winning.
If Marezco, as last leadout, was still going fast enough that Viviani either couldn't or had no need to pass him, then the penultimate leadout rider kept Marezco in his slipstream for longer than is ideal.

Marezco does not know until Viviani passes him whether Viviani has the legs to win: if he can secure the team without needing to trust to that unknown, he has done what he should.

If Viviani expects others to value a win for the team, even if it is not an individual triumph, he should learn to do the same.

And if he cannot trust himself as to how he would behave on the podium (his reason for his non-appearance), he should seek employment that does not put him in a public spotlight.

I hear you but that's not at all how it played out.

He was supposed to work for Viv, which even he acknowledged. You can even see him in the replay working for him but they got separated in the last few k (or TM drifted back behind Viv purposely). He was actually somewhere behind Viv the entire last couple of Ks. Viv blew past the other sprinters and had a clear lead and win until TM went for it on the inside. He wasn't trying to do anything other than beat Viv and win the race. This wasn't one of those situations where the leadout man was so fast that the designated sprinter couldn't come around in time. TM wasn't trying to protect Viv in any way, he just wanted to win.

Now, I'm not saying he was 100% wrong in doing that but it's the kind of thing that will be noticed and could have an effect when future team selections are made.

Personally, I don't think it's as big a deal as it would have been if they were trade teammates but it does say a little about the guy, in the same way not showing up on the podium says something about Viv. Not shocking, they're sprinters and they often have big attitudes and egos.

If this had happened on a trade team I imagine he would probably be benched for disregarding team orders.

 

[Ruudz0r]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FQlk24Uh2Y

If you check 22:30 you see Mareczko comming up a bit, he is even quiet a bit further behind a little before that, he and Viviani lost each other and there was no way he was going to be able to do a lead out for Viviani if you check they are positioned.
Viviani had an almost perfect lead out anyway by Richeze so he should really not complain. Mareczko was much stronger in this stage and he was not in the position to help Viviani in the last km.

 

[Armchair cyclist]

Re: Re:

If Mareczco was capable of reaching the finish line before Viviani, then Mrezco was Italy's best chance of winning.
If Marezco, as last leadout, was still going fast enough that Viviani either couldn't or had no need to pass him, then the penultimate leadout rider kept Marezco in his slipstream for longer than is ideal.

Marezco does not know until Viviani passes him whether Viviani has the legs to win: if he can secure the team without needing to trust to that unknown, he has done what he should.

If Viviani expects others to value a win for the team, even if it is not an individual triumph, he should learn to do the same.

And if he cannot trust himself as to how he would behave on the podium (his reason for his non-appearance), he should seek employment that does not put him in a public spotlight.

I hear you but that's not at all how it played out...

My bad: assumed he was lead out, and also assumed that there would be no video worth looking at to check.

I still have no sympathy for Viviani's attitude though, translates as "How dare someone with a lower profile/salary be faster than me."

 

[LaFlorecita]

I'm confused. Surely Mareczko is not at fault for being the faster sprinter. If Viviani doesn't like to be beaten by his lead-out man he should be quicker, period. To say that Mareczko should have sat up because it was Viviani's win is frankly ludicrous. Surely the win belongs to whoever can get to the finish line first.

 

[MatParker117]

Re:

I'm confused. Surely Mareczko is not at fault for being the faster sprinter. If Viviani doesn't like to be beaten by his lead-out man he should be quicker, period. To say that Mareczko should have sat up because it was Viviani's win is frankly ludicrous. Surely the win belongs to whoever can get to the finish line first.

If this had happened when they were racing for there trade teams I'd agree, but here they were team mates and Viviani was the protected rider. I slammed Gerrans for not working for Matthews and I think it was very poor for Marecko to ignore team orders and go into business for himself, Viviani has every right to be furious with him in my opinion.

 

[jens_attacks]

He was the protected rider but far from hitler,stalin or kim ir sen
Kuba didn't jeopardize viviani well being in any way. It was a fair sprint
So well done kuba.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

I'm confused. Surely Mareczko is not at fault for being the faster sprinter. If Viviani doesn't like to be beaten by his lead-out man he should be quicker, period. To say that Mareczko should have sat up because it was Viviani's win is frankly ludicrous. Surely the win belongs to whoever can get to the finish line first.

If this had happened when they were racing for there trade teams I'd agree, but here they were team mates and Viviani was the protected rider. I slammed Gerrans for not working for Matthews and I think it was very poor for Marecko to ignore team orders and go into business for himself, Viviani has every right to be furious with him in my opinion.

It was a sprint and the strongest sprinter won. Viviani was just too slow, tough luck better luck next time.

 

[SafeBet]

As jens noted, Mareczko stated he was told he would have a free role before joining Team Italia in San Luis.
I don't know if this is true, but surely the whole idea behind Team Italia is to give (especially young) riders a chance to compete in races their teams skip or aren't invited to.
Still, I agree he made a mistake if they told him he had leadout duties before the stage. I don't think there are gonna be consequences for future selections though.

 

[jaylew]

Re:

I'm confused. Surely Mareczko is not at fault for being the faster sprinter. If Viviani doesn't like to be beaten by his lead-out man he should be quicker, period. To say that Mareczko should have sat up because it was Viviani's win is frankly ludicrous. Surely the win belongs to whoever can get to the finish line first.

True, but you know as well as I do that that's not how cycling works. You're generally not supposed to race against a teammate.

I think he was told before going that he would get a chance somewhere and things didn't play out that way for whatever reason. TM was probably upset he was designated as lead out man for the last stage (which he admitted) and decided to take matters into his own hands, without informing the team. Perhaps he was wronged in some way - I don't know all the conversations that took place among the team before and during the race but it was a bit slimy the way he won, imo.

Viv has admitted he was enraged and was afraid he would cause a scene on the podium.

 

[jens_attacks]

Vivani such a coward
Kuba would have smacked him anyway

 

[PeterB]

Re:

Even if Mareczko was asked to provide lead-out to Viviani before the race, at that very moment 500m before the finish, seeing that he couldn't be any more helpful to Viviani (although question is - did he separate from Viviani by accident, or intentionally?), there was nothing that could or should prevent him from trying his own luck. And I strongly believe that if he could ask the sport director in that very moment whether he was allowed to sprint, he would have received approval to go for it. His only limitation should be not endangering Viviani's sprint, which he observed (quite on the contrary, it was Viviani who came dangerously close to him).

And I think Brullnux made very good remark that Viviani should have no reason not to support young and talented teammate - it could benefit the future of the squadra greatly if Viviani praised Mareczko for his superb effort, wouldn't it? Yet, Viviani chose to "mentor" him by disrespecting his achievement.

As someone on twitter mentioned, it could even be argued that by ignoring the ceremony, Viviani disrespected Italian team as he did not give it a chance to present the jersey on the podium.

It was perhaps not a perfect situation, but the way Viviani handled it was wrong and unjustified.

 

[bala v]

Re: Re:

I'm confused. Surely Mareczko is not at fault for being the faster sprinter. If Viviani doesn't like to be beaten by his lead-out man he should be quicker, period. To say that Mareczko should have sat up because it was Viviani's win is frankly ludicrous. Surely the win belongs to whoever can get to the finish line first.

If this had happened when they were racing for there trade teams I'd agree, but here they were team mates and Viviani was the protected rider. I slammed Gerrans for not working for Matthews and I think it was very poor for Marecko to ignore team orders and go into business for himself, Viviani has every right to be furious with him in my opinion.

Yeah, but would you slam Gerrans if he had won?

 

[Karaev1]

Gaviria is my favorite young sprinter but after this Kuba stunt it is very hard for me to choose between them... And what Viviani did is not cool even if the team manager told Kuba to be his lead out man before the race.

 

[MatParker117]

Re: Re:

I'm confused. Surely Mareczko is not at fault for being the faster sprinter. If Viviani doesn't like to be beaten by his lead-out man he should be quicker, period. To say that Mareczko should have sat up because it was Viviani's win is frankly ludicrous. Surely the win belongs to whoever can get to the finish line first.

If this had happened when they were racing for there trade teams I'd agree, but here they were team mates and Viviani was the protected rider. I slammed Gerrans for not working for Matthews and I think it was very poor for Marecko to ignore team orders and go into business for himself, Viviani has every right to be furious with him in my opinion.

Yeah, but would you slam Gerrans if he had won?

No because because he can't beat Matthews, him not working for Matthews handed Sagan the Rainbow jersey.

 

[Mr.White]

Re: Re:

I'm confused. Surely Mareczko is not at fault for being the faster sprinter. If Viviani doesn't like to be beaten by his lead-out man he should be quicker, period. To say that Mareczko should have sat up because it was Viviani's win is frankly ludicrous. Surely the win belongs to whoever can get to the finish line first.

If this had happened when they were racing for there trade teams I'd agree, but here they were team mates and Viviani was the protected rider. I slammed Gerrans for not working for Matthews and I think it was very poor for Marecko to ignore team orders and go into business for himself, Viviani has every right to be furious with him in my opinion.

Yeah, but would you slam Gerrans if he had won?

No because because he can't beat Matthews, him not working for Matthews handed Sagan the Rainbow jersey.

Oh yes he can. If the race is hard enough he can beat him. Look at Amstel last year, Kwiat and Valverde beat him in the sprint. Top form Gerrans would surely be able to do it.
I agree though that he made a mistake, but that's different than this Mareczko/Viviani situation. Viviani was in perfect position, Mareczko didn't harm him and isn't exactly his real team mate, he's young and he took his chance, that's all. Perfectly fine by me

 

[Angliru]

When a team has 2 riders sprinting for the win don't they risk the chance of one be used as a leadout to spring past the other (or both)? TM, in his efforts to win the sprint was making himself a useful tool in assisting the rival sprinters in defeating his teammate. It didn't happen but it could have. It's rare that you have 2 riders from the same team in a mass sprint, sprinting against the other. There is a reason for it.

 

[jens_attacks]

I agree. Viviani should have lead out grande kuba.
Big mistake by cassani.

 

[Al Lesklar]

Re: Re:

Mareczko [...] isn't exactly his real team mate

Then Mareczko shouldn't have been wearing the same jersey and going to the same team meetings.