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Tour de Suisse 2012: Stage 4; Aarberg → Trimbach/Olten (189km)

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theyoungest said:
Nice final, boring finish. I can understand Van Avermaet's frustration... come on teams, what are you thinking, that you can beat Sagan at the finish? Good luck with that.

Yes. BMC had the right idea. One rider in a late attack, which might well have stayed away. And then another rider tries to go for a long, long sprint. The point being, to avoid just serving it up on a plate to Sagan.

Today, Liquigas had two men left, including Sagan. These teams would never have helped Sky pull back the break if it was Cavendish there with one helper. So when will they learn that Sagan is to the tricky select sprint as Cavendish is the flat one? How many times does he have to hand them their dignity before they learn?
 
mastersracer said:
WTH? he's amazing to watch - picks exactly the right move to follow, yesterday overcooked the last corner, unclipped, clipped back in, and won.

Its because it has the same grim predictability about it.
He has won roughly 80% of the stages in his past two stage races.
Fun for a while, but it soon gets repetitive.
 
Zinoviev Letter said:
Yes. BMC had the right idea. One rider in a late attack, which might well have stayed away. And then another rider tries to go for a long, long sprint. The point being, to avoid just serving it up on a plate to Sagan.

Today, Liquigas had two men left, including Sagan. These teams would never have helped Sky pull back the break if it was Cavendish there with one helper. So when will they learn that Sagan is to the tricky select sprint as Cavendish is the flat one?

1% chance of victory is better than none.

Edit: pretty good stage despite the inevitable outcome
 
roundabout said:
1% chance of victory is better than none.

Sending someone in the Elmiger/GVA attack, or a similar late attack, provided a better than 1% chance of victory. They knew that Sagan was still in the group. They have to learn to treat him like Cavendish or he will continue to beat them over and over again. Just as everyone knows not to help Sky pull back attacks for Cavendish, only seriously slow learners have any business helping Liquigas pull attacks back for Sagan.
 
Zinoviev Letter said:
Sending someone in the Elmiger/GVA attack, or a similar late attack, provided a better than 1% chance of victory. They knew that Sagan was still in the group. They have to learn to treat him like Cavendish or he will continue to beat them over and over again.

True. But after they missed the attacks they had no options except chasing or a late attack (which may be shut down by other teams).
 
Zinoviev Letter said:
That was ridiculously easy.

Garmin, Astana and Katusha seem to be slow learners. If you help Liquigas set up a sprint on a course like today's one, Sagan will win.

You don't understand. They want a rider in the top 10 so they earn WT points.
Nobody cares about smart racing these days, just about a rider in the top 10 for WT points.

Just like GC riders do everything to maintain their 6th place. Don't even consider attacking which could possibly results in a top 1-5 spot, but also the risk to tumble out of the top10. No it's better to follow the other favourites to make sure you end 6th!

Current system is a big problem.
 
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Apart from Sagan winning that wasn't a bad days racing, pace was fast to start, different combinations got away, first big break came back, eventually it was the third that stuck on the Cat 1. climb, but they weren't given any time as Cataldo may have taken yellow. Attacks came on both the final climbs, until we were left with 3 off the front with a chance. caught with 3km to go...and then we learned again just how good Sagan is.
 
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Kwibus said:
You don't understand. They want a rider in the top 10 so they earn WT points.
Nobody cares about smart racing these days, just about a rider in the top 10 for WT points.

Just like GC riders do everything to maintain their 6th place. Don't even consider attacking which could possibly results in a top 1-5 spot, but also the risk to tumble out of the top10. No it's better to follow the other favourites to make sure you end 6th!

Current system is a big problem.

Garmin and Astana need WT points?

;)
 
Kwibus said:
You don't understand. They want a rider in the top 10 so they earn WT points.

I don't like the points system either, but I don't really believe that the likes of Katusha or Garmin or Astana are so desperate for a couple of WT points that they wll ride for sixth on a stage of the Tour de Suisse. Ag2r or Saxo or another team which could be in points difficulty, maybe, but in fact Ag2r were one of the teams riding for a win.

I think that the basic problems are:

(A) A lack of a real, peloton-wide, understanding that Sagan isn't just a big talent, but is already as big or bigger a favourite to win a select group sprint as Cavendish is to win a flat full-field sprint.

(B) Because of that, it hasn't really sunk in yet that even if helping Liquigas moves your chances of winning a stage from 0% to 1%, it is in your longer term interests for the peloton collectively to refuse to help. Some other team's late attack succeeds today. Yours may succeed tomorrow. But neither will if you chase today and the other team chase tomorrow.
 
Eshnar said:
just logged in. I didn't watch the race, so can anyone give me a brief resume? Apart from Sagan winning ofc ;)

Took a while for the break to form, eventually one got away containing Cataldo.

Cataldo was the last survivor and was caught and dropped by Nordhaug out of the bunch, who was subsequently caught 15mins later by GVA and Elmiger, the trio were soon caught by the bunch.
 
karlboss said:
Apart from Sagan winning that wasn't a bad days racing, pace was fast to start, different combinations got away, first big break came back, eventually it was the third that stuck on the Cat 1. climb, but they weren't given any time as Cataldo may have taken yellow. Attacks came on both the final climbs, until we were left with 3 off the front with a chance. caught with 3km to go...and then we learned again just how good Sagan is.

thanks.
What did Moser do? I see its name all over the thread :p
 
Eshnar said:
just logged in. I didn't watch the race, so can anyone give me a brief resume? Apart from Sagan winning ofc ;)

A few guys (Cataldo, then Nordhaug hoping for a solo soon to be reached by Van Avermat & Elmiger) on a hopeless break caught by the amazingly-epic-awesome-Moser-the new fckin Moser.
Then with around 1km to go Burghardt tries to catch everyone off-guard, but in the end he just accomplishes to perfectly launch superSagan who flies to the win without even contesting.
 
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Eshnar said:
thanks.
What did Moser do? I see its name all over the thread :p

Over the final 2 climbs the only liqui gas riders were Moser and Sagan, Garmin Katusha adn Astana helped the chase in the final 20, Moser being the liqui man, but moser was super impressive in the last 3km, did the job of 3 HTC guys.
 

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