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Tour de Suisse stage 5 Unterterzen - Rettenbachferner 237 km

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Jul 16, 2011
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Re: Tour de Suisse stage 5 Unterterzen - Rettenbachferner 23

damian13ster said:
Pinot to win by outsprinting Fuglsang who will be riding tempo.
Anyone knows how well Pinot and Majka handle such a long distances?

Majka rode pretty well at the San Sebastian classic a couple of years ago. Pinot was very strong on the first Pyrenean stage in last your's tour, which was almost exactly the same length. I've not got a huge amount of data :eek: , but I can't see it being a problem for them.
 
Aug 16, 2013
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Bushman said:
Heart says Fuglsang, head says Pinot. I think those two will definitely be in the top three. Other contenders are Spilak, Majka and Pozzovivo. Expect a good performance from Lopez as well.

How is Lopez in steep climbs btw?

Really good. Also strong on the steep finish climb in Turkey (the stage Bilbao won).
 
Jun 3, 2012
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Arredondo said:
Bushman said:
Heart says Fuglsang, head says Pinot. I think those two will definitely be in the top three. Other contenders are Spilak, Majka and Pozzovivo. Expect a good performance from Lopez as well.

How is Lopez in steep climbs btw?

Really good. Also strong on the steep finish climb in Turkey (the stage Bilbao won).

Yes I watched that stage. Lopez' style is very different to Quintana's but they have something in common.
 
Feb 23, 2014
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Fuglsang
Pinot +15
Spilak +20
Majka +40
Pozzivivo " "
Henao
Gesink +1'20"
Chaves " "
Moreno
Barguil +2'00"
 
Jun 30, 2014
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Joe Dombrowski ftw!
Not really, but it would be good to see some signs of life, he was over 1min behind yesterday...
 
Apr 16, 2009
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Bushman said:
Heart says Fuglsang, head says Pinot. I think those two will definitely be in the top three. Other contenders are Spilak, Majka and Pozzovivo. Expect a good performance from Lopez as well.

How is Lopez in steep climbs btw?
I guess Lopez is really good in steep climbs. He is small. the problem with him is that his legs are not fully developed. He is so young.
 
Apr 16, 2009
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Bushman said:
Arredondo said:
Bushman said:
Heart says Fuglsang, head says Pinot. I think those two will definitely be in the top three. Other contenders are Spilak, Majka and Pozzovivo. Expect a good performance from Lopez as well.

How is Lopez in steep climbs btw?

Really good. Also strong on the steep finish climb in Turkey (the stage Bilbao won).

Yes I watched that stage. Lopez' style is very different to Quintana's but they have something in common.
They are both small and they are both from Boyacá.

Lopez uses high cadence as opposed to Quintana.
 
Jan 27, 2012
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Not a fan of these ultra steep climbs. Racing just looks like crap going up imo.

But I've been happy about the parcours so far. Lots of narrow and twisty roads in stunning landscape.

Big muscle Fuglsang to drop everybody.
 
Feb 23, 2014
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johnymax said:
Jspear said:
Fuglsang
Pinot +15
Spilak +20
Majka +40
Pozzivivo " "
Henao
Gesink +1'20"
Chaves " "
Moreno
Barguil +2'00"

You forgot Sagan.

The competition is a little better here and I think this is going to be too steep for him. Besides he doesn't have the motivation that he had in Cali. Here he knows he won't be able to win the overall. He'll stick with stage wins. :)
 
Jun 10, 2013
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Dazed and Confused said:
Not a fan of these ultra steep climbs. Racing just looks like crap going up imo.

But I've been happy about the parcours so far. Lots of narrow and twisty roads in stunning landscape.

Big muscle Fuglsang to drop everybody.

I agree.

Like trying to vacuum-clean the San Francisco sewers trough a toilet.
 
May 27, 2014
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Re: Tour de Suisse stage 5 Unterterzen - Rettenbachferner 23

Tank Engine said:
damian13ster said:
Pinot to win by outsprinting Fuglsang who will be riding tempo.
Anyone knows how well Pinot and Majka handle such a long distances?

Majka rode pretty well at the San Sebastian classic a couple of years ago. Pinot was very strong on the first Pyrenean stage in last your's tour, which was almost exactly the same length. I've not got a huge amount of data :eek: , but I can't see it being a problem for them.

True, Majka also does well in Lombardy. I am excited for tommorow. Too bad that all I am left with is live text at work :/
 
Jan 4, 2011
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Man, what an insane stage this is. 237km, 6h30+ in the saddle, and one of the most brutal climbs in pro cycling.

Result from 2005 Deutschland Tour, MTF on Rettenbachferner with also a big HC climb mid-stage but only 171km long:

1 Levi Leipheimer (USA) Gerolsteiner 5.11.56
2 Georg Totschnig (Aut) Gerolsteiner 0.15
3 Jan Ullrich (Ger) T-Mobile 0.50
4 Cadel Evans (Aus) Davitamon - Lotto 1.12
5 Jörg Jaksche (Ger) Liberty Seguros-Würth Team 1.24
6 Tadej Valjavec (Slo) Phonak Hearing Systems 1.41
7 Saul Raisin (USA) Crédit Agricole 2.46
8 Marco Fertonani (Ita) Domina Vacanze 2.48
9 Fabian Jeker (Swi) Saunier Duval - Prodir 3.06
10 Patrik Sinkewitz (Ger) Quickstep s.t.
 
Apr 29, 2012
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Bushman said:
Inquitus said:
Big G to confirm he's the 2nd coming of Sir Brad.

I dont recall Wiggins ever doing well on such a brutal climb.

I was more thinking the 4km pursuiter to GT Climber metamorphosis would be complete, arise my Welsh butterfly ;)
 
Jun 30, 2014
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Flamin said:
Man, what an insane stage this is. 237km, 6h30+ in the saddle, and one of the most brutal climbs in pro cycling.

Result from 2005 Deutschland Tour, MTF on Rettenbachferner with also a big HC climb mid-stage but only 171km long:

1 Levi Leipheimer (USA) Gerolsteiner 5.11.56
2 Georg Totschnig (Aut) Gerolsteiner 0.15
3 Jan Ullrich (Ger) T-Mobile 0.50
4 Cadel Evans (Aus) Davitamon - Lotto 1.12
5 Jörg Jaksche (Ger) Liberty Seguros-Würth Team 1.24
6 Tadej Valjavec (Slo) Phonak Hearing Systems 1.41
7 Saul Raisin (USA) Crédit Agricole 2.46
8 Marco Fertonani (Ita) Domina Vacanze 2.48
9 Fabian Jeker (Swi) Saunier Duval - Prodir 3.06
10 Patrik Sinkewitz (Ger) Quickstep s.t.
As far as I know they used the Kühtaisattel from Kematen back then, 23,3km at 6%.
KuhtaiE.gif
 
Feb 20, 2010
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<3 Rettenbachferner. Beast of a climb. The Mortirolo, but 1000m higher.

Here's what I wrote about it way back when:

When we discuss toughest climbs in racing, we tend to think primarily of the Grand Tours, and with good reason. Short stage racing seldom sees climbs as brutally tough as Angliru or Monte Zoncolan, and often with good reason; a climb like this in a short stage race would often result in the race becoming a win-the-MTF-win-the-race kind of easy GC win for the strongest climber, as tactics are hard to enforce on a summit so difficult no real racing will go on outside of the final climb (yes, I know both have been won from the break recently, but only in races where the GC battle was either waged behind GC irrelevances (Vuelta '13) or where the GC was more or less settled (Giro '14)). Nevertheless, a one week stage race has climbed the Rettenbachferner. Twice. While Germany was still in love with cycling, the Deutschlandtour sought to expand in to Austria to take advantage of more epic Alpine climbs; while strong summit finishes were possible in Germany, as evidenced by the Feldberg climb used in 2003 and 2005, a lot of the time the smaller mountain ranges led to a range of medium mountain type stages, and so from 2004 onwards the organisers looked to their neighbours to the south to take advantage of more difficult mountain passes. In 2005, that led to the introduction of this savage and brutal climb, which was also revisited in 2007. Revisit 2005's ascent here and see Levi Leipheimer attack (a rare collector's item!) to defeat Jörg Jaksche, Georg Totschnig and Jan Ullrich. It makes me miss the Deutschlandtour; a race I truly wish could come back... there are so many possibilities for it, from savage cobbled stages in Sachsen-Anhalt and Mecklenburg-Vorpommern, Ardennes-esque monsters in the Rheinland, and around the Taunus and Aschaffenburg, sawtoothed medium mountain killers in eastern Bavaria, Thüringen, the Rhön and Erzgebirge, echelons of climbers' nightmares in Schleswig-Holstein and the Nordseeküste, and mountains to rival all but the Alpine and Pyrenean peaks in the Schwarzwald and German Alps. But that's off topic.

The climb was an instant attention-grabber. Maybe that's to do with the combination of high altitude and nightmarish gradients.

d3d5bc44.jpg


That profile, from the APM foro guys, goes from the turn-off from the Ötztal valley road to the Tiefenbachferner. The total for that is a pretty brutal 13,8km @ 10,8%. The Rettenbachferner is at the asterisk, roughly speaking - at an altitude of 2670m. Depending on where you put the start (many use the village of Sölden itself as the commencement point), Its profile can be considered 12,1km @ 10,7% or 12,4km @ 10,5%, with a maximum of a not at all inconsiderable 18%.

Do those figures sound quite familiar to you? They should, as they are incredibly reminiscent of the Mortirolo from Mazzo, one of Italy's most legendary and storied ascents. The Rettenbachferner is a little more consistent than the Mortirolo in its ascents at least (there is that very brief, barely perceptible descent in there), but this is offset by its being some 800m higher up in altitude, and do not consider that that would not be a factor in racing. Here we are higher than the Gavia, higher than Galibier... the only climbs competitive cycling in Europe is familiar with that top out above the Rettenbachferner are the Cime de la Bonette, the Col de l'Iseran, the Col d'Agnel and the Passo dello Stelvio. And if we went to the Tiefenbachferner, it tops out at 2830m and dwarfs all of these, with only Pico Veleta to defeat it.

The ideal stage would actually forgo Bielerhöhe and do Pillerhöhe (7km, 10%) then just before the 20k or so false flat into Sölden, stick in the Silzer Sattel (about 9,5km @ 9,5%). It's still going to be all about the final climb, but it warms the legs up properly for such a steep brute. It's only sad they can't approach from the south, as Rombo-Rettenbachferner (for added bonus, you could do Jaufenpass first, but I can't see that ever happening in a race, as it would mean an Österreich Rundfahrt stage with all the key moments but the finish outside Austria, or a Giro stage at the kind of altitude that could wreak havoc on plans).
 
Apr 14, 2009
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Re: Tour de Suisse stage 5 Unterterzen - Rettenbachferner 23

Damn I'm looking forward to this. Gaps could be huge.

Fuglsang looks like a different man and I suspect we might be about to see a Mikel Landa at the Giro type quantum leap in form/ability.

Fuglsang
Pinot +35
Spilak +1.20
 
Jun 30, 2014
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If they are having a 237km stage they might as well start on swiss soil, ride through Italy and use the Rombo-Rettenbachferner combination.
 
Apr 17, 2013
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The toughness of Rettenbachferner and the length of the stage should favour the "mediocre" Fuglsang (Netserks words). I think it's gonna be Pinot though, with Fuglsang and Majka as 2nd and 3rd. G Thomas and Spilak to round out the top 5
 
Jul 13, 2010
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I don't think it will make any sense if Sagan decides to give it all tomorrow. He will still lose too much time to stay in the contention, I think he will choose to climb in grupetto,
 
Jun 3, 2012
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The distance of the stage will not be a huge factor with only one climb prior to the Rettenbachferner, but of course it will mean something. The length should play into the hands of Fuglsang, he is usually quite good in longer races. I am not sure in his abilities on such a tough climb though. I think he might be a bit too heavy still (no, he is not at the rumoured 64 kg, he said so himself). I am looking very much forward to the stage.
 
May 10, 2013
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Lord Stanley said:
I don't think it will make any sense if Sagan decides to give it all tomorrow. He will still lose too much time to stay in the contention, I think he will choose to climb in grupetto,
I agree. In California, he won the ITT so he could limit his loses on climb and still win the overall. Here he actually needs to gain some time on riders like Dumoulin, so it's all more sophisticated.

I think it's too hard for him anyway.