I would say Roche has steadily declined, no way he can duplicate that performance. 9th-10th at the VERY BEST. Henao has the better ceiling this year, clearly, and not just because he won today.
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Re: Re:
Em must be why SKY who do everything on the numbers brought Roche to the Tour and left Henao (who clearly wanted to go) at home
I am not saying Henao is not a very good rider and should not get protected status but Roche is also good at GTs as proven
We will see how it all pans out in a few weeks
TMP402 said:
Em must be why SKY who do everything on the numbers brought Roche to the Tour and left Henao (who clearly wanted to go) at home
I am not saying Henao is not a very good rider and should not get protected status but Roche is also good at GTs as proven
We will see how it all pans out in a few weeks
Izagirre should be the favorite for the overall now. Ulissi second, Zakarin third, Henao fourth. Hermans could surprise but will likely finish fifth.
Re: Re:
BTW, I don't understand why people here are not giving Henao any chance in the ITT. He is not bad. He is actually OK when in form.
The reason the brought Roche instead of Henao was because of the first 9 days. They didn't need another mountain goat. If it was because of the mountains I would have taken Henao instead of Roche IMHO. I think it was more between Konig and Henao. Not Roche.HelloDolly said:
BTW, I don't understand why people here are not giving Henao any chance in the ITT. He is not bad. He is actually OK when in form.
I think there are other riders with better chance than Zakarin tomorrow. He is too far down. All of the other have to be bad. It is just too much.
Re: Re:
The reason the brought Roche instead of Henao was because of the flats. They didn't need another mountain goat.[/quote]
They brought him for the mid mountain stages with Kennaugh, Thomas & Poels (as per his diary) ...Porte & Konig for the mountains
But things changed and riders rotated roles (like Stannard was tired in 1st week and Kennaugh was cooked as early as stage 4 while Thomas susprised himself as to his climbing ) .But Braislford brought all climbers bar Rowe & Stannard
Heano was not brought for any of these roles is my point. So Roches numbers are good, otherwise he would not be there
and to say he is declining based on 1 year at TCS where he wa not happy and a full year riding dom for Frooem & Porte is unfounded. Heano has lead 2 stages races but Roche has had no lead in such races as he worked all year in every race for Froome or Porte.
The reason the brought Roche instead of Henao was because of the flats. They didn't need another mountain goat.[/quote]
They brought him for the mid mountain stages with Kennaugh, Thomas & Poels (as per his diary) ...Porte & Konig for the mountains
But things changed and riders rotated roles (like Stannard was tired in 1st week and Kennaugh was cooked as early as stage 4 while Thomas susprised himself as to his climbing ) .But Braislford brought all climbers bar Rowe & Stannard
Heano was not brought for any of these roles is my point. So Roches numbers are good, otherwise he would not be there
and to say he is declining based on 1 year at TCS where he wa not happy and a full year riding dom for Frooem & Porte is unfounded. Heano has lead 2 stages races but Roche has had no lead in such races as he worked all year in every race for Froome or Porte.
You are obviously a huge Roche fan, so I guess there is no point in debating here. Roche has been declining climbing-wise and thus was brought due to him being good in every terrain. Its just a fact that he don't ride up the mountains as fast as he once did. And with a Tour in his legs, its almost just plain stupid to suggest that Roche is the better GC-option (or climber, wahtever) than Nieve and Henao who both are fresh.
Roche is nothing more than a very good domestique at this point, capable of stage wins and maybe a top-10 Giro/Vuelta if everything somehow falls into his favor. Good in flats, hills, experienced and can be there with 20-30 left in the mountains. Not more
Roche is nothing more than a very good domestique at this point, capable of stage wins and maybe a top-10 Giro/Vuelta if everything somehow falls into his favor. Good in flats, hills, experienced and can be there with 20-30 left in the mountains. Not more
Re: Re:
You already said: "He rode the Tour with extra weight as per orders to be strong in many roles from flat to hilly (read the Guardian article) ". He cannot both be a good GT contender, and yet only able to get into Sky's team after putting on enough weight to stop him being a good GT contender.
HelloDolly said:
You already said: "He rode the Tour with extra weight as per orders to be strong in many roles from flat to hilly (read the Guardian article) ". He cannot both be a good GT contender, and yet only able to get into Sky's team after putting on enough weight to stop him being a good GT contender.
Re: Re:
I agree with your post, though, completely. If he pulls out an incredible performance tomorrow then maybe I'll change my mind, but I'm not holding my breath
Sorry, turns out I can't readjohnymax said:Brullnux said:Then why is he tenthjohnymax said:
I said in Romandie. In Poland he isn't convincing me as I stated in my previous post and I don't think he'll win. I was responding to the bore comment. He wasn't boring in his wins this season. Even in Romandie he attacked on the queen stage like three or four times. I'm not on his hype train and I think he has a lot more to show before he can be considered a perennial contender in stage races.
I agree with your post, though, completely. If he pulls out an incredible performance tomorrow then maybe I'll change my mind, but I'm not holding my breath
Re:
same arguments were made after vuelta espana 2011 in the next season
zakarin at his best beats in my opinion every rider in the world in a week long race
if the scientists will tune him for three weeks and he can handle the massive training like froome did, he will crush any enemy
Brullnux said:Zakarin 27 seconds down on GC. He will probably catch Henao but he might not catch Ulissi, depending on his time trial form.
Just looked back at his results. He has only ever had one good result in TT's at a decent level, in Romandie. Pais Vasco: 21st (Although that day had Aia)
San Luis: 6th in a flat TT, only 10 seconds ahead of a shockingly out of form Nairo and Gaviria(?!), while 33 seconds behind Malori.
Vuelta a Burgos 2014: 7th in a fairly short, flat TT, 6 seconds behind Nairo and 7 behind the winner (behind Moreno too)
Tour of Poland 2014: 30th. Not great form, but not that bad, 25th in the Bukowina stage, but he still finished 1:23 down on Vandewalle in the exact same TT of today.
Russia championships 2014: 12th, 4 minutes down on Vorobyez. Mind you, much better than this year, where he finished 24th almost 8 minutes down on Ovechkin.
My point is that we are overhyping him for the TT. Maybe he will pull out an incredible TT, but it would be only the second time in his career. One great race does not a champion make
same arguments were made after vuelta espana 2011 in the next season
zakarin at his best beats in my opinion every rider in the world in a week long race
if the scientists will tune him for three weeks and he can handle the massive training like froome did, he will crush any enemy
the great zaka boring hahahaha
zaka is never boring when he has the legs. and i'm sure that next year he will crush them contadors and froomes.
zaka is never boring when he has the legs. and i'm sure that next year he will crush them contadors and froomes.
Re:
yes he's too far down
27 seconds on epic time trialists like henao and ulissi
in a 25 km time trial
if would be shockingly bad for me if he doesn't take the 2nd place. i do think izaguirre will beat him
Escarabajo said:
yes he's too far down
27 seconds on epic time trialists like henao and ulissi
in a 25 km time trial
if would be shockingly bad for me if he doesn't take the 2nd place. i do think izaguirre will beat him
only because he's not in romandie shape(which is pretty disappointing yes). otherwise he would have put one minute into ion
I dont think Zaka has it this week, biggest favourite should be Izaguirre, he looks in super shape!
I really wonder what team will Sky have at the Vuelta
I really wonder what team will Sky have at the Vuelta
Re:
Ion put 1 minute into Zakarin in Pais Vasco. It's disappointing he's not in PV shape, otherwise he would have put 1 minute into this Zakarin tomorrow.
jens_attacks said:
Ion put 1 minute into Zakarin in Pais Vasco. It's disappointing he's not in PV shape, otherwise he would have put 1 minute into this Zakarin tomorrow.
classicomano
BANNED
Re:
Randomly?
Randomly?
How dare you!
He should do a great TT tomorrow indeed.
classicomano said:
Randomly?
Randomly?
How dare you!
He should do a great TT tomorrow indeed.
I wish Henao TT abilities were better. He deserved at least one GC win this year. But again it's probably not gonna happen. My bet is on Izagirre finally winnig TdP after being runner up in last 2 editions.
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