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Tour of the Alps 2024 (April 15 - 19)

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QueenStagiaire

QueenStagiaire

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Escarabajo said:
I just saw the results. I left the broadcast when the crash happened. Then came back and saw the results and how did Sosa ended up behind Chaves and Thomas??
Did Ben O'Connor crashed as well? he was bleeding at the finish.
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O‘Connor crashed in the same corner as Harper. The GC group then went so slow that Valentin Paret-Peintre got a big gap. Just as Thomas came back after minutes of sitting around, Sosa attacked only to blow up and lose big time after Juanpe started pacing.
 
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Logic-is-your-friend

Logic-is-your-friend

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saunaking said:
Well, Froome himself believes tour #5 is just around the corner too. Doesn't mean anyone else should.
And I dont think its like he's shown anything to suggest it. I don't know how he won Avenir, but its not like he did anything special there in mountains.
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There is a huge margin between expecting to be able to win the TDF and not being able to follow Sosa, Lopez and Paret-Peintre in Tour of the Alps. Froome is a different case since he already showed he could win TDF, and is now first and foremost just fooling his employer.

As for Foss winning Avenir, he won it in his final year as a U23, when rivals his age (Bernal, Lambrecht, Storer, Sivakov...) had already left U23 races long ago. Meaning his main rivals were 2 and 3 years younger. He also had the best team, with Sleen saving his bacon more than once. Then there was the mechanical Van Wilder had when he had dropped Foss, there was the crash of Pidcock who DNF, and a bunch of other favorites not being able to finish the race, like Rubio. So nobody in his right mind ever expected him to be a future TDF champion, but when the rider, his trainers and his team (Visma) seem to believe in his potential as a GC rider, you can only assume they know something we don't.
 
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Tim Cahill

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Foss could be very useful in an older style skytrain playing the Vasil Kyrienka role of looking menacing on the front and tapping out a rhythm for 100k of a mountain stage. Unfortunately for them they don't have Froome anymore. He's still a very good rider who can have a good career, just isn't going be knocking on the podium of GCs any time soon.
 
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Eddy Evenepoel

Eddy Evenepoel

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Slavique Nuke said:
So he finished last among those who wanted to get the best overall result. 8th-10th on a GT is hardly an achievement. 99% of them don't care, they would rather deliberately lose time and try to win a stage from the break than finish 9th.
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Last of the ones who was close enough to fight for it the whole Giro yes. 9th isn’t an outstanding performance, but the way it was achieved (not gaining any “free” time in breakaways) was very promising for a 24 year old. It was a pretty though Giro with big gaps and he was only 4 minutes or so from a top 5 in the end. It was a proof that he can climb at a decent WT-level in stage races.

Again, it’s important to not put this in the context of “he should win the Tour in good form”, but to put it in the context of “he should be able to follow guys like Juanpe and Storer in Tour of the Alps”.

When it comes to his Avenir, it’s important to put his win in the context that Logic posted. It was his last year and Bernal etc wasn’t around. It’s definitively no reason to use that Avenir win as a sign that he should compete for the win in GTs by now.
However, it’s still a decent result to win Avenir and it’s important context to put in that he was also top 10 in Avenir the two previous years, so his win wasn’t a freak accident.

I personally think his 7th place two years before (2017) was a bigger performance than his win and a better prospective of his talent. He was 2:12 behind the winner Bernal in the end and 1:01 behind Lambrecht in 2nd (these three were all born 97). In this race Foss lost 59 seconds in a flat stage before the mountains where 100 man (all GC riders) finished in the pack. In the 3 mountain stages (and they were pretty though by Avenir standards) he did really well, and he’d likely been on the podium just behind Lambrecht (or 4th) without that unnecessary time loss in the flat stage. There was also no TTT here, which favored him the year he won.

So looking at his 3 Avenirs and his Giro 2021 there were actually quite a few performances where he has shown potential in stage races/GTs. Again, not in the class of “huge talent, he should win the tour”, but more in “he’s actually a talent that can probably do pretty well”. And in this context fighting for the win in races like this Tour of the Alps or riding another top 10 at the Giro shouldn’t be unrealistic, and when he cracks like today that is a disappointment.
 
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Samu Cuenca

Samu Cuenca

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GLdbP7-X0AgnmGA
 
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Slavique Nuke

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Eddy Evenepoel said:
Last of the ones who was close enough to fight for it the whole Giro yes. 9th isn’t an outstanding performance, but the way it was achieved (not gaining any “free” time in breakaways) was very promising for a 24 year old. It was a pretty though Giro with big gaps and he was only 4 minutes or so from a top 5 in the end. It was a proof that he can climb at a decent WT-level in stage races.

Again, it’s important to not put this in the context of “he should win the Tour in good form”, but to put it in the context of “he should be able to follow guys like Juanpe and Storer in Tour of the Alps”.

When it comes to his Avenir, it’s important to put his win in the context that Logic posted. It was his last year and Bernal etc wasn’t around. It’s definitively no reason to use that Avenir win as a sign that he should compete for the win in GTs by now.
However, it’s still a decent result to win Avenir and it’s important context to put in that he was also top 10 in Avenir the two previous years, so his win wasn’t a freak accident.

I personally think his 7th place two years before (2017) was a bigger performance than his win and a better prospective of his talent. He was 2:12 behind the winner Bernal in the end and 1:01 behind Lambrecht in 2nd (these three were all born 97). In this race Foss lost 59 seconds in a flat stage before the mountains where 100 man (all GC riders) finished in the pack. In the 3 mountain stages (and they were pretty though by Avenir standards) he did really well, and he’d likely been on the podium just behind Lambrecht (or 4th) without that unnecessary time loss in the flat stage. There was also no TTT here, which favored him the year he won.

So looking at his 3 Avenirs and his Giro 2021 there were actually quite a few performances where he has shown potential in stage races/GTs. Again, not in the class of “huge talent, he should win the tour”, but more in “he’s actually a talent that can probably do pretty well”. And in this context fighting for the win in races like this Tour of the Alps or riding another top 10 at the Giro shouldn’t be unrealistic, and when he cracks like today that is a disappointment.
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Still, 9th place is absolutely no result. Weak starting list, the biggest favourite was in full control... Despite being 24 & raced in a strong WT team, he was only 5th in the youth classification. I don't really see a promising performance. The guy has no business even against second-tier GC dudes like Almeida, Vlasov....
 
Squire

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The Foss discussions on here have always been so weird. He has a number of detractors who are very keen to point out what a hopeless cause GC Foss is, while nobody is actually taking the position that these detractors attack so vociferously (f.ex. claiming that Foss should hang with Almeida/Vlasov or such things).

I haven't seen anybody voice any unrealistic expectations regarding him, and himself wanting to explore his GC capabilities having won l'Avenir and top 10-ed the Giro is also perfectly reasonable (though maybe his alleged salary demands were not).

I do think it's perfectly reasonable to expect more from him than finishing with the gruppetto on today's stage. As Eddy Evenepoel outlines, an in-form Foss staying with Lopez, Paret-Peintre and Tiberi is not the most preposterous proposition in cycling. Especially given how strong he looked on yesterday's short and steep stuff. Unless there's something wrong with him, I expect a better showing tomorrow. The more gentle slopes should be to his liking.
 
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Eddy Evenepoel

Eddy Evenepoel

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Slavique Nuke said:
Still, 9th place is absolutely no result. Weak starting list, the biggest favourite was in full control... Despite being 24 & raced in a strong WT team, he was only 5th in the youth classification. I don't really see a promising performance. The guy has no business even against second-tier GC dudes like Almeida, Vlasov....
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If 9th place is an "absolutely no result", then you are discussion completely different things than the rest of us... No one is arguing that Foss performances in this Giro was a relevant for fighting to win a Grand Tour or to even podium.
People are saying that Foss at his best (in that Giro) showed that he can climb at a level that means he should be able to be relevant in stage races with weaker starting fields (like this Tour of the Alps) or maybe getting close to another top 10 in a GT (and if someone is arguing that a rider can possibly fight for a top 10 in a GT, then an actual GT top 10 is a very relevant result)..
Context matters.
 
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Samu Cuenca

Samu Cuenca

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I don't understand the Foss hate either, but the fact remains that he hasn't improved much since the 2021 Giro. Neither when it comes to peak performances (the WC title aside) nor consistency.
I think too many riders have surpassed him in those three years for him to become a GT rider. However he can still rack up top 10s or possibly top 5s in week long stage races, become a solid domestique in GTs and hunt GT stages in both ITTs and on road stages.
 
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