Transfers and Rumours 2011 > 2012

[will10]

Firstly, his win in the nats was against some pretty average competition. Never rated GB's championships as being that good. Even though now GB has some good riders, the race is dominated by Sky it makes the race almost a joke and unfortunately I see what has happened to the GB road champs happening to a lesser extent with Aus nats. Anyway, it seems to me that GB cycling fans attachment to him originates from being the 'not very talented guy who tries hard' status. Almost like getting the sympathy vote in a popularity contest.

Man, how young are you? There was a GB Nats before Sky you know! Used to be a very open, aggressive race, with the odd top pro like Millar having to contend with domestic squads like Motorpoint, Rapha etc who didn't have the stars but had strength in numbers.

Your hypocritical posts lately have me in stiches, really. I mean it's not so long ago that anyone could ride the Aussie Nats, regardless of nationality.

 

[Ferminal]

acf never suggested there wasn't, rather, even though GB has come on massively in road cycling in recent years, the presence of Sky makes the Nats a bit of a sham.
i.e. Pre-Sky - average field.

Post-Sky - good field but a lottery of Sky riders.

 

[sublimit]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_National_Road_Race_Championships

Some interesting riders in the British Nationals.. not the best fields early on but later getting a lot better with the cream coming to the top most of the time.

Russel Downing got amongst them a couple of times and a good win and beat the future BMC rider Cummings into second place in 2005.

 

[Anonymous]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_National_Road_Race_Championships

Some interesting riders in the British Nationals.. not the best fields early on but later getting a lot better with the cream coming to the top most of the time.

Russel Downing got amongst them a couple of times and a good win and beat the future BMC rider Cummings into second place in 2005.

trouble is, the podiums doesnt reflect the riders entered, for instance it doesnt show how Dave Millar when at the top of his game didnt win, or that Cavendish hasnt won but has entered. If you remember, he finished 6th the year House won it on what was considered a course to favour strong sprinters. (Wiggins, Dan Lloyd, Chris Froome, Dave Millar also rode that year so hardly a week field, but they dont appear on the wikipedia results)

if you just look at the wiki page for the aussie nationals it looks like that doesnt draw much of a field.. McEwan only wining one, Peter McDonald beating Mick Rogers... But, again, just looking at the podiums doesnt reflect the quality of the fields.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_National_Road_Race_Championships

as I say, those who think Downing didnt have the quality look at his full bio. Hes had the chances but every chance that came along he seemed to get screwed.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

The British Nationals have never been the strongest, but that's always reflected their role in the sport.

Before Team Sky, you'd get some decent riders entering, but they'd usually be on their own or with only one or maybe two teammates (Barloworld...) against the national teams who had the numbers to cover them. Now with Team Sky you see the negative aspect for the national scene of having one overarching pseudo-national team with conflicts of interest with British Cycling. Now, you've pooled all the most talented Brits into one team, so that team inevitably dominates. If they don't, then some serious questions have to be asked (see: Rabobank and Niki Terpstra's nationals win).

Even in many national championships with much stronger fields you can see domination occur here and there; Abarcá Sports has won every Spanish nationals since the 2006 suspension, except for Rubén Plaza's win on the MTF at Cueva el Soplao - and then they went and signed him for the next season anyway! Ditto Katyusha with the Russian championships, and Astana with the Kazakh championships. When you get a strong team that's able to enter 15 or so riders, they're always going to be able to boss things. And though Movistar aren't a pseudo-national team the way Astana, Katyusha, Sky or GreenEdge are, this applies to them too.

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

The British Nationals have never been the strongest, but that's always reflected their role in the sport.

Before Team Sky, you'd get some decent riders entering, but they'd usually be on their own or with only one or maybe two teammates (Barloworld...) against the national teams who had the numbers to cover them. Now with Team Sky you see the negative aspect for the national scene of having one overarching pseudo-national team with conflicts of interest with British Cycling. Now, you've pooled all the most talented Brits into one team, so that team inevitably dominates. If they don't, then some serious questions have to be asked (see: Rabobank and Niki Terpstra's nationals win).

Even in many national championships with much stronger fields you can see domination occur here and there; Abarcá Sports has won every Spanish nationals since the 2006 suspension, except for Rubén Plaza's win on the MTF at Cueva el Soplao - and then they went and signed him for the next season anyway! Ditto Katyusha with the Russian championships, and Astana with the Kazakh championships. When you get a strong team that's able to enter 15 or so riders, they're always going to be able to boss things. And though Movistar aren't a pseudo-national team the way Astana, Katyusha, Sky or GreenEdge are, this applies to them too.

Movistar don't have a direct link to the spanish federation, but in the rather important aspect of Spanish% they are far more of a national team than any of the others you mention. They only had 8 non spaniards this year.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Movistar don't have a direct link to the spanish federation, but in the rather important aspect of Spanish% they are far more of a national team than any of the others you mention. They only had 8 non spaniards this year.

Hence why they're not a pseudo-national team, but the point applies to them too. In terms of roster they have a higher % national riders than the pseudo-national teams (bar Euskaltel as a special case), but then, some of the French teams have a high % national riders, but they're up against other teams at the same level with large numbers of riders too.

But in terms of the ratio "Spanish riders at Movistar : Spanish riders in top two tiers of World Cycling" they dwindle far behind Sky, Katyusha or Astana.

 

[hrotha]

More importantly, Movistar isn't perceived as "the" Spanish team around here. At all.

 

[lanternrouge]

Firstly, his win in the nats was against some pretty average competition. Never rated GB's championships as being that good. Even though now GB has some good riders, the race is dominated by Sky it makes the race almost a joke and unfortunately I see what has happened to the GB road champs happening to a lesser extent with Aus nats. Anyway, it seems to me that GB cycling fans attachment to him originates from being the 'not very talented guy who tries hard' status. Almost like getting the sympathy vote in a popularity contest.

Maybe you should stick to worshipping all things Cadel Evans and leave the subjects which you clearly know two tenths of **** all about alone?

 

[Midnightfright]

More importantly, Movistar isn't perceived as "the" Spanish team around here. At all.

No ofcourse not there piti's team.

 

[learn to ride]

Not sure if it belongs to this thread..

Ekimov joins Russian project

http://velonews.competitor.com/2011/11/news/ekimov-returns-home-to-russian-project_198065

 

[daveinzambia]

I really don't see why they didn't renew Downing if they even had room for him...not like he'd be the most expensive rider.

not really sure but i think that is why he mentioned it, not like he was dropped for another rider, just no room for him

guess it is just a case of not really seeing a role for him on the team. With Cavendish coming then the sprinters will all get shuffled down and means the likes of Appo and Swift will be the sprinter in smaller races. Guess they had to look at exactly what Downing would be bringing to the team.

i am not sure if reducing the squad was a cost thing or just a case of keeping a couple of slots open in case someone they really want comes up or just listing the roles on the team and filling the

 

[Anonymous]

i am not sure if reducing the squad was a cost thing or just a case of keeping a couple of slots open in case someone they really want comes up or just listing the roles on the team and filling the

I think its a practical thing. There were a lot of riders didnt get to race much last year, some due to illness or injury (Pauwells, Froome, Augustyn) and some for other reasons. I think as well they are going with the quality not quantity approach of the first two seasons.

Personally, although its a shame he couldnt get a world tour slot, Endura wll be a good place for Russ. He will get to ride some decent races, and as leader more often than not.

Going to be really interesting at the Nationals in 2012. With the likes of Cavendish, Thomas, Wiggins etc thinking more about the olympics, the battle between Endura and Sky (Along with the usual Rapha) could be pretty good.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

More importantly, Movistar isn't perceived as "the" Spanish team around here. At all.

really, I mean we don't go on about it but I'm sure many people associate movistar with Spain. I know I do.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

really, I mean we don't go on about it but I'm sure many people associate movistar with Spain. I know I do.

But the thing is, while they are a Spanish team, they are no more Spanish than Lampre or Liquigas are Italian, or Lotto or OPQS are Belgian; at the most, they are as national as Rabobank are Dutch. They aren't part of any great national cycling project like Sky, Katyusha, Astana or GreenEdge. It's just that a lot of their competition for non-Basque Spanish riders at the top level has dried up.

 

[daveinzambia]

More importantly, Movistar isn't perceived as "the" Spanish team around here. At all.

Agree with that without really understanding why. maybe lack of knowledge of them. I see them as Spanish but not Spanish in the same way Sky, Astana, Greenedge, Katusha are linked to their nationalities. Maybe just down to the number of Spanish riders on other teams.

I remember when I was younger seeing Once as the Spanish team, but have no idea why they would be different from Banesto. Almost certainly influenced by a complete lack of knowledge of Spanish cycling.

 

[El Pistolero]

But the thing is, while they are a Spanish team, they are no more Spanish than Lampre or Liquigas are Italian, or Lotto or OPQS are Belgian; at the most, they are as national as Rabobank are Dutch. They aren't part of any great national cycling project like Sky, Katyusha, Astana or GreenEdge. It's just that a lot of their competition for non-Basque Spanish riders at the top level has dried up.

Movistar definitely is more Spanish than OPQS is Belgian.

OPQS has an international team with all kinds of nationalities and besides Boonen they have not a single good Belgian cyclist.

Even before the new transfers this year, QS was always an Italian-Belgian team. A leftover from the Mapei days.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

But the thing is, while they are a Spanish team, they are no more Spanish than Lampre or Liquigas are Italian, or Lotto or OPQS are Belgian; at the most, they are as national as Rabobank are Dutch. They aren't part of any great national cycling project like Sky, Katyusha, Astana or GreenEdge. It's just that a lot of their competition for non-Basque Spanish riders at the top level has dried up.

I understand that, and really spansh cycling didn't need a project like sky etc. Though maybe thier talent coming through is some what less impressive compared to previous decades.

But all I really meant was that if we are to associate movistar with a nationality, it's spain. Agree it isn't nationaliy focused like some other teams tho.

Still I think rabo still have some degree of a nationality project, with the huge emphasis on young dutch talent. Rabobank have done a lot of good for dutch cycling.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I understand that, and really spansh cycling didn't need a project like sky etc. Though maybe thier talent coming through is some what less impressive compared to previous decades.

But all I really meant was that if we are to associate movistar with a nationality, it's spain. Agree it isn't nationaliy focused like some other teams tho.

Still I think rabo still have some degree of a nationality project, with the huge emphasis on young dutch talent. Rabobank have done a lot of good for dutch cycling.

The thing is, Movistar becomes more of an ersatz national team simply out of lack of competition. Spanish cycling is pretty regional; many different teams have different regional identities, some stronger than others. Galicía had Karpin/Xacobeo, Cantabria had Saunier Duval (though that's always felt like a more multinational, especially Italian, team), Catalunya had Ángel Mir, Comunidad Valenciana and the Canarias have both sponsored Kelme, Murcía had Contentpolis, Castilla y León sponsors Burgos 2016, Extremadura had Spiuk, Andalucía obviously still has a team, ONCE/Liberty were Madrid-based, and the Fundación Euskadi needs no introduction. The Basque-Navarrese area is the country's biggest hotbed for cycling, and so many of the teams had feeders in the area. Movistar are based there, as were Kaiku when they existed, and Caja Rural now; it seems cycling is surviving the great sponsorship dwindle in Spain much better there; but with Caja Rural being at a lower level and Euskaltel willingly limiting their intake, Movistar become the default team to aspire to for Spanish riders coming through the amateur ranks.

 

[nobilis]

I think the problem is that Spain was used to have many team in the top tier, like for example the time of Once, Banesto, Kelme, Vitalicio Seguros so there was never the reflex of associating Spain to one team.
Plus, Spanish riders are almost everywhere, in Spanish and non-Spanish teams.

But now, Movistar, being the sole representant of Spanish cycling at the top level (with Euskaltel but they don't see themselves as Spanish) should have more pressure, especially with the situation of Spanish cycling nowadays.

 

[gustienordic]

I think the problem is that Spain was used to have many team in the top tier, like for example the time of Once, Banesto, Kelme, Vitalicio Seguros so there was never the reflex of associating Spain to one team.
Plus, Spanish riders are almost everywhere, in Spanish and non-Spanish teams.

But now, Movistar, being the sole representant of Spanish cycling at the top level (with Euskaltel but they don't see themselves as Spanish) should have more pressure, especially with the situation of Spanish cycling nowadays.

Spain's World Tour Position:
2011: 1st
2010: 1st
2009: 1st

Seems to me that Spanish cycling is doing just fine.

 

[hrotha]

Spain's World Tour Position:
2011: 1st
2010: 1st
2009: 1st

Seems to me that Spanish cycling is doing just fine.

If you look beyond the results of the top riders, you'll see less and less teams, pros, u23 and juniors.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Menchov looking likely to sign with Katusha - http://www.biciciclismo.com/cas/site/noticias-ficha.asp?id=44994

 

[Eric8-A]

Menchov looking likely to sign with Katusha - http://www.biciciclismo.com/cas/site/noticias-ficha.asp?id=44994

And he said that he surely wasn't going with them. I've begun to realize that cyclists lie a lot

 

[nobilis]

Spain's World Tour Position:
2011: 1st
2010: 1st
2009: 1st

Seems to me that Spanish cycling is doing just fine.

WT is far from being a good indicator. And this position is mainly due to super Spanish cyclists like Contador, Purito, Valverde, Samu. Therefore on an individual level and not collective one.
And as Hrotha mentioned, just look at the number of Spanish teams in the first 2 divisions and compare it to early 2000s.