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Transfusion points??

Just as a thought of how riders are hiding transfusions and injection marks is instead of the riders using normal veins like arms etc do you think riders are using insertion points like Groin veins, between their toes etc like heroin/coke addicts do when their veins on their arms etc fail?

This way the tell tale signs wont be so obvious to the general public and people with a trained eye?

Or am I waaay off here??
 
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Anonymous

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There was a great picture on here somewhere of Mr Armstrong with what looks like a needle mark on his right arm. Clear as day.
 
Aug 13, 2009
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Colonel said:
Just as a thought of how riders are hiding transfusions and injection marks is instead of the riders using normal veins like arms etc do you think riders are using insertion points like Groin veins, between their toes etc like heroin/coke addicts do when their veins on their arms etc fail?

This way the tell tale signs wont be so obvious to the general public and people with a trained eye?

Or am I waaay off here??

One of the things Emma O'Reilly said in Lance to Landis was Armstrong would borrow her makeup to cover up the needle marks.
 
Dec 24, 2009
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does it matter?

The impression I've gotten is that the UCI is in "let's pretend mode " with regard to LA. Allowing delays etc. I don't know how hard they are trying to catch the the cash cows (or hogs).
 
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Anonymous

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Yes, it could be from anything, but it looks like a dirt line from adhesive and two small red marks under it. It could actually be from something medical but it is still interesting.

fx6ixw.jpg
 
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Susan Westemeyer said:
Keep it clean please.

Rolf Aldag admitted he got the tattoo on his upper arm to cover up the marks made by injecting himself.

Armstrong's arm markings could simply be from giving blood for a control. My arm looked like that last week after a blood test.

Susan

I covered myself in the header, but I still think it is funny.
 
Jul 24, 2009
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Colonel said:
Just as a thought of how riders are hiding transfusions and injection marks is instead of the riders using normal veins like arms etc do you think riders are using insertion points like Groin veins, between their toes etc like heroin/coke addicts do when their veins on their arms etc fail?

This way the tell tale signs wont be so obvious to the general public and people with a trained eye?

Or am I waaay off here??

Not many people shoot up coke. Mostly only when speedballing.
 
Alpe d'Huez said:
Ahhh, the good old days.

That 1999 Giro was something. Marco, all three jerseys and a hefty lead with just a couple days to go...

This was taken from the final TT of the 1998 Giro, Alpe, not 99. Got it off my WCP 98 Giro Vid. It was the penultimate day i think, the same tt that Pantani miraculously beat Pavel Tonkov over a something like 30km tt. Got second that day i think.

Phil Liggett and Paul Sherwen were spewing the same crap then as they are now and were even more oblivious to doping back then, then now. During that TT the were saying crap like: The Maglia Rosa is making him ride like two men, Look what the Pink fleece does to your TT ability, Marco Pantani is riding the TT of his life, all whilst painfully oblivious to what was going on. (Paraphrasing obviously as i can't remember whole quotes)

The same year he did the double. Giro and Tour. The year he won it in the mountains alone. He got something like 180th in the prologue

Thoughtforfood said:
Wow, I have never seen that picture before. Speechless.

I guess it could have been easily explained though, As back then IV fluids were the norm and still allowed (I think?). I remember something in the 95 or 96 WCP Tour de France Vid where Gary Imlach commented how Miguel Indurain must have been getting his IV meal, because he couldn't get an interview with him at the Banesto team dinner table and also because he was sick during that days ride and he said he probably wouldn' t be able to keep proper foods down.

Haven't had my WCP vids that long and that comment was what made me really notice that IV fluids were very much the norm and that it seemed most were probably doing it.
 
El Imbatido said:
This was taken from the final TT of the 1998 Giro, Alpe, not 99.
Thanks El.

'99 was quite a year too. One of the most amazing charged performances in history. Had he not been nabbed, the dual with Lance at the Tour would have been something to see. Battle between the pharmacological experiments, and I think Marco would have crushed him.
 
Alpe d'Huez said:
Thanks El.

'99 was quite a year too. One of the most amazing charged performances in history. Had he not been nabbed, the dual with Lance at the Tour would have been something to see. Battle between the pharmacological experiments, and I think Marco would have crushed him.

Hmmm... Got irony?
 
Oct 29, 2009
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El Imbatido said:
Haven't had my WCP vids that long and that comment was what made me really notice that IV fluids were very much the norm and that it seemed most were probably doing it.

Remember the '91 Tour where PDM abandoned en masse due to a bad IV 'supplement'. Maybe it was food poisoning or a bad batch of something else...
 
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El Imbatido said:
This was taken from the final TT of the 1998 Giro, Alpe, not 99. Got it off my WCP 98 Giro Vid. It was the penultimate day i think, the same tt that Pantani miraculously beat Pavel Tonkov over a something like 30km tt. Got second that day i think.

Phil Liggett and Paul Sherwen were spewing the same crap then as they are now and were even more oblivious to doping back then, then now. During that TT the were saying crap like: The Maglia Rosa is making him ride like two men, Look what the Pink fleece does to your TT ability, Marco Pantani is riding the TT of his life, all whilst painfully oblivious to what was going on. (Paraphrasing obviously as i can't remember whole quotes)

The same year he did the double. Giro and Tour. The year he won it in the mountains alone. He got something like 180th in the prologue

I was about to add in that it was the 98 Giro not the 99 Giro, because Marco was banned in 99. You beat me to it.

Good to hear that Liggett and Sherwen haven't changed. That is a sad thing but also a relief. I feared this year they were getting worse. Good to know that it was just their hero returning to slay all opposition (Phil said in the first 5 minutes of commentary Lance had "told him" he was going to win). Phil still believed in Lance's invincibility when he proceeded to bad-mouthed Contador in Paris. Classic! Does anyone know if Paul Sherwen the commentator is the same Paul Sherwen who was the media director at Motorola, mentioned in LA Confidential and from LA to Landis?

Pantani could pull a ITT out of his **** if he needed. I think it was the 97 Tour where he came third overall in the last chrono he came third. 63 kilometres, took an hour and 20 minutes. He was three minutes behind first place Olano, but he still had the third fastest time and kept his podium position. Just found out it was at Disneyland. Irony,a fairytale backdrop for a fairytale result. Priceless!
 
CycloErgoSum said:
Remember the '91 Tour where PDM abandoned en masse due to a bad IV 'supplement'. Maybe it was food poisoning or a bad batch of something else...

Got a heap of WCP vids to watch and haven't watched 91 yet. So i didn't know about that. But it just reinforces what i said. IV fluids were the norm. And by the looks of it (the new astana mess) even though it is banned it looks like some people are still hanging on to old times and using it.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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Colonel said:
Just as a thought of how riders are hiding transfusions and injection marks is instead of the riders using normal veins like arms etc do you think riders are using insertion points like Groin veins, between their toes etc like heroin/coke addicts do when their veins on their arms etc fail?

This way the tell tale signs wont be so obvious to the general public and people with a trained eye?

Or am I waaay off here??

I doubt riders are using smaller veins. Most blood transfusions are administered through a large bore (or gauge) needle (and hence need to be administered into large veins). There is a (small) risk that turbulent blood flow through a smaller gauge needle will lead to clotting and complications. Also, blood transfusions would be much, much slower through smaller gauge needles.
 
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elapid said:
I doubt riders are using smaller veins. Most blood transfusions are administered through a large bore (or gauge) needle (and hence need to be administered into large veins). There is a (small) risk that turbulent blood flow through a smaller gauge needle will lead to clotting and complications. Also, blood transfusions would be much, much slower through smaller gauge needles.

It should also be remembered that they are not transfusing every day. Its not like they will ruin a vein using the methods they do.
 
Jul 11, 2009
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El Imbatido said:
Atleast it wasn't obvious like this:

vlcsnap745035.jpg

This picture alone doesn't say anything. In those days they would give the riders their (food) supplements intravenous as well. And testing for blood doping also involves getting a needle in your arm.
 
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dajonker said:
This picture alone doesn't say anything. In those days they would give the riders their (food) supplements intravenous as well. And testing for blood doping also involves getting a needle in your arm.

Yea, keep telling yourself that.

As to testing, again, it is not frequent enough to destroy a vein.
 
Jul 11, 2009
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Thoughtforfood said:
Yea, keep telling yourself that.

As to testing, again, it is not frequent enough to destroy a vein.

Do you have any idea how many pills cyclists are swallowing during an average grand tour day? It's a lot more convenient to just inject them, and that's what they used to do until they made it illegal.
 

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