Tyler Hamilton confessions/accusations

[R.0.t.O]

Credible independent witnesses yes, but I ain't seein' too many of them. Are you? And for something that happened so long ago.. a bit of physical evidence wouldn't go astray at this point either.

Hearing this a lot about 'hearsay' and 'one word against another.' Ever been to an actual trial? I've sat on juries twice and I don't think we were presented with anything other than witness testimonies on either occasions.

 

[rata de sentina]

Credible independent witnesses yes, but I ain't seein' too many of them. Are you? And for something that happened so long ago.. a bit of physical evidence wouldn't go astray at this point either.

I can't believe you are still argueing this point. It's not up to you to define credible. Plenty of people with a lot more dubious CVs than Landis and Hamilton have been credible witnesses in the context of a court case. Of course they're credible.

 

[frenchfry]

I figure no matter one's opinion, we can find the following tweet from Lance to be hilarious:

posted about 10pm EDT: "Congratulations to @eki_ekimov on his 3rd Olympic Gold Medal!!"

Just when I thought he couldn't fall any fruther in my esteem, he comes up with something like this.

Give him credit, he is definately a world class Ahole.

 

[AussieGoddess]

I can't believe you are still argueing this point. It's not up to you to define credible. Plenty of people with a lot more dubious CVs than Landis and Hamilton have been credible witnesses in the context of a court case. Of course they're credible.

Agreed.


But in any case - I like Micheal Ashendens credibility a whole lot ....

 

[L'arriviste]

Hearing this a lot about 'hearsay' and 'one word against another.' Ever been to an actual trial? I've sat on juries twice and I don't think we were presented with anything other than witness testimonies on either occasions.

+1. And anyway, it's "three words against another", if Andreu and Hamilton corroborate Landis on 60 Minutes.

 

[thirteen]

Just when I thought he couldn't fall any fruther in my esteem, he comes up with something like this.

Give him credit, he is definately a world class Ahole.

i had to go check twitter because i honestly didn't believe he said what was i thinking?

he is a ***t!

 

[Barrus]

Interesting article concerning the piece on 60 minutes and the manner in which it tried to incorporate LA himself:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2011-05-19/lance-armstrong-60-minutes-unfair-doping-allegations/?cid=hp:mainpromo4#

Interesting parts:

But CBS’ Fager said the discussions with producer Michael Radutzky were more complicated. After every conversation with Armstrong’s lawyers, “they would guess who it was in our story and try to assassinate their character. They would say, ‘If so-and-so’s in it, we’re not going to participate.’… They just want to tear that person apart in public.”

The Armstrong team provided the program’s staff with “all kinds of negative things” about the suspected witnesses, including their “dark motivation,” Fager said. “They ratcheted it up. We’ve bent over backward to share this information with them.”

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

Excellent news. I just hope this doesn't have to drag on for much longer - is there a concensus feeling on how long before the Grand Jury starts to make charges?

 

[Anonymous]

I would have convicted OJ in a flash.
The physical evidence was overwhelming.
None of this, he told me, she said, I opened his fridge and saw something and I think it was...

You haven't seen anything, yet can characterize it as that. Again, if you want to keep looking like a fool, feel free.

 

[RdBiker]

i think we know that there will be at least some physical evidence. i very much doubt that afld cooperation was invented.

I really hope so too. Otherwise I fear it will just be a lot of talk and nothing solid will come out of it (against Armstrong).

These court cases are frustratingly slow - it's been well over a year and it's all still preparation for the case itself...
But at least I'm happy it's not my money they're using for this. It's like getting a free ticket to the movies

 

[frenchfry]

The strategy from the Armstrong camp appears to continue to try and destroy anyone who tells the truth or questions the myth. Nothing new there, but they are going to be busy as more and more come out of the closet to tell their stories.

What always cracks me up is how Armstrong and his henchmen say that others are saying what they say for the money. This from a guy that does nothing unless he gets paid.

 

[Cimacoppi49]

This morning, Armstrong is trotting out the old I've never tested positive defense. Let's see what happens when the facts come out about his alleged TdS covered up positive.

Lance is going to be indicted very soon. It will be a RICO indictment with Tailwind and other entities named as the criminal enterprises. Underlying felonies will include:
Fraud on the US Govt.; Insurance fraud, Mail and wire fraud, Conspiracy, money laundering, bribery of foreign officials, various criminal tax law violations, soliciting perjury, intimidation of witnesses---probably a few more.

 

[Magic Spanner]

The depressing and frustrating dimension to this is how slowly we inch towards the inevitable conclusion. Slowly but surely the evidence piles up as those implicated have less and less to lose. There were too many involved to bully everyone. With so many admitting it was "normal" behaviour in the peleton to use EPO, and with such large % gains in doing so, are we really expected to believe that one man could dominate without being part of the scene?

This is not about destroying dreams or tearing down myths and popular beliefs. This is not about hurting people and trying to prove who's right and wrong. Many if not most cycling legends have taken recourse to assistance of one kind or another.

This is about simple truth to improve our sport.

Sooner or later the credibility of cycling feats will be eregarded in the right context and perspective. Shame it looks like later.

Well done Tyler. Come on Jonathon. Guess we'll have to wait until retirement for George.

 

[Chuffy]

What always cracks me up is how Armstrong and his henchmen say that others are saying what they say for the money. This from a guy that does nothing unless he gets paid.

Precisely. The most a whistleblower stands to gain is a few dollars in interview fees and maybe a modest book deal. Team Armstrong has infinitely more to gain by lying and maintaining the lie.

 

[ManInFull]

The strategy from the Armstrong camp appears to continue to try and destroy anyone who tells the truth or questions the myth. Nothing new there, but they are going to be busy as more and more come out of the closet to tell their stories.

What always cracks me up is how Armstrong and his henchmen say that others are saying what they say for the money. This from a guy that does nothing unless he gets paid.

What really needs to happen is for someone like Hincappie to confess that he doped and knows that Lance did too. The die-hard Lance fans would have to shut up then--well, the ones who are willing to listen to reason at all. Hincappie has never failed a drug test and his admission would confirm that never failing a drug test doesn't equate to never having doped.

 

[veganrob]

Precisely. The most a whistleblower stands to gain is a few dollars in interview fees and maybe a modest book deal. Team Armstrong has infinitely more to gain by lying and maintaining the lie.

Exactly. So what if Tyler gets a little book deal. He is telling the truth.
Armstrong's empire was built on a mountain of lies. Can't the blind fanboys figure this out.

 

[ManInFull]

The depressing and frustrating dimension to this is how slowly we inch towards the inevitable conclusion. Slowly but surely the evidence piles up as those implicated have less and less to lose. There were too many involved to bully everyone. With so many admitting it was "normal" behaviour in the peleton to use EPO, and with such large % gains in doing so, are we really expected to believe that one man could dominate without being part of the scene?

This is not about destroying dreams or tearing down myths and popular beliefs. This is not about hurting people and trying to prove who's right and wrong. Many if not most cycling legends have taken recourse to assistance of one kind or another.

This is about simple truth to improve our sport.

Sooner or later the credibility of cycling feats will be eregarded in the right context and perspective. Shame it looks like later.

Well done Tyler. Come on Jonathon. Guess we'll have to wait until retirement for George.

I hope that the 60 Minutes interviewer questions Tyler about the drug testing. It needs to be clear that these guys were doping and that getting caught RARELY happens. Based on Lance's logic, Tyler, Floyd, and others would have been busted the very first time they doped--not likely.

 

[Magic Spanner]

Precisely. The most a whistleblower stands to gain is a few dollars in interview fees and maybe a modest book deal. Team Armstrong has infinitely more to gain by lying and maintaining the lie.

Of course LA has painted himself into a corner with no escape and is forced to continue down the same path. A dead end! The endless denials, the American hero, sporting champion / fundraiser. His success is built upon huge talent combined with dominating teams and rivals with the force of his personality (bullying) and alleged doping (cheating). It's all he knows. He's not going to change now.

 

[Magic Spanner]

I hope that the 60 Minutes interviewer questions Tyler about the drug testing. It needs to be clear that these guys were doping and that getting caught RARELY happens. Based on Lance's logic, Tyler, Floyd, and others would have been busted the very first time they doped--not likely.

Exactly. Nobody is doubting his testing record (well apart from the alleged TdS positive). It is clear that the peleton could beat the testers.

 

[spalco]

Big surprise So lance doped during that doping free for all period like everyone else. We already knew that.

You know, this argument is really starting to bother me. Yes, we do all know Armstrong was dirty as **** during all his TdF victories, but he is still denying it! And very vehemently, wholeheartedly denying it! If he came out and said "yes, I did do this and that and that before/during this and this and this race" a lot would be achieved. There can't be a new beginning for cycling without laying all the cards on the table imo. But he's not going to do that, ever. Unless maybe if forced to by a jury.

 

[saganftw]

havent read the whole thread,too long so it may be already discussed

however what do u guys think of hamiltons claims about seeing LA taking drugs more than once? i think LA is controlfreak and i doubt he would use drugs in front of anyone (tho they were longtime friends)

and no im not trying to find holes in hamiltons claims to make LA clean,dont even go there

 

[Chuffy]

Of course LA has painted himself into a corner with no escape and is forced to continue down the same path. A dead end! The endless denials, the American hero, sporting champion / fundraiser. His success is built upon huge talent combined with dominating teams and rivals with the force of his personality (bullying) and alleged doping (cheating). It's all he knows. He's not going to change now.

Yup. I can't see the 'tearful confession' scenario ever being an option, he's spent too long being bullish about it.

Thing is, LA still has a lot of capital with the Great American Public. If he maintains the lie, even if he does time for it, he can still come out at the end of it with fans and a living to be made. If anything he stands to lose more by confessing.

 

[cat6cx]

Man, what did I wake up to?

Haven't been able to catch up on the whole thread yet, but I saw Fabiani's comments on his dumba$$ "facts4lance" website. That is just pathetic. I try not to get emotional about this stuff, but that just made me angry.

That crew has zero shame and zero conscience.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

What really needs to happen is for someone like Hincappie to confess that he doped and knows that Lance did too. The die-hard Lance fans would have to shut up then--well, the ones who are willing to listen to reason at all. Hincappie has never failed a drug test and his admission would confirm that never failing a drug test doesn't equate to never having doped.

I think he talked already to the GJ. Read the velonews article, how often he said no comment. He just wants to finish the season/career quietly.

 

[Magic Spanner]

To be honest I don't want him to suffer. He did what all the other riders were doing and is, in part a victim of the system. He can keep his credibility with enough of the Great American Public to make a living.

I want to see him lose all credibility openly within the sport so cycling can move forwards and continue to improve. So that young ambitious and talented riders don't follow the same path. So that we ammateur racers and fans can believe in bike racing.