Tyler Hamilton confessions/accusations

[python]

Yup. I can't see the 'tearful confession' scenario ever being an option, he's spent too long being bullish about it.

Thing is, LA still has a lot of capital with the Great American Public. If he maintains the lie, even if he does time for it, he can still come out at the end of it with fans and a living to be made. If anything he stands to lose more by confessing.

tbh, for someone expecting justice done and maximised, it's better that he continues to deny... the longer he perpetuates his lies, the more potential witnesses will lose their patience and will eventually come out. as various statues limiting them from talking NOW expire, they will continue to fill the ranks of of people who already openly challenged the lies.

it's like a water torture vs. a guillotine. he's in a bind of his own doing.

 

[thehog]

Interesting article concerning the piece on 60 minutes and the manner in which it tried to incorporate LA himself:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2011-05-19/lance-armstrong-60-minutes-unfair-doping-allegations/?cid=hp:mainpromo4#

Interesting parts:

Good link - thanks.

This struck me as odd: Fabiani's team has launched a website, http://www.facts4lance.com, to help make its case.

- you mean these guys put the site together??!!

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Of course LA has painted himself into a corner with no escape and is forced to continue down the same path. A dead end! The endless denials, the American hero, sporting champion / fundraiser. His success is built upon huge talent combined with dominating teams and rivals with the force of his personality (bullying) and alleged doping (cheating). It's all he knows. He's not going to change now.

Of course not. He is the perfect example of a psychopath. They plan their things for long, feel they are above everybody else. But this arrogant behaviour brings him down: Making everybody an enemy (exception, those he paid), making a stupid comeback because of thinking being untouchable.

 

[Magic Spanner]

He has definitely spent too many years with people who will submit. To the point that he believes in his own invincibility? Maybe. But at the same time he isn't stupid and must be aware of his pridicament.

Victim of his success? Maybe. Is anyone chasing down other champions and multiple classic winners to prove their involvement in doping?

As previously stated Hincapie coming out and saying I was never tested positive but I doped with LA would put everyone out of their misery and allow the sport to move on and be reborn.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I figure no matter one's opinion, we can find the following tweet from Lance to be hilarious:

posted about 10pm EDT: "Congratulations to @eki_ekimov on his 3rd Olympic Gold Medal!!"

Ha, he is cheering a Russian guy for being given a gold medal over a fellow American? What happened to "USA, USA, USA"...

Also - didn't Herman say that part of Hamiltons motivation to talk was that he will not lose the medal - it must be hard for Fabiani to keep up with the spin.

 

[Cloxxki]

To say this all is going to end badly for Lance is such an understatement. Seriously, he should be guarded to ensure he remains medically available for comment.
At this point, what allows him to keep on going? Some pressure from his inner circle, his kids, and a lot of twisted ideas in his head, but all that is wearing down. Especially when the brainwashed kids inevitably lose faith in his word. Every man is going to crack at some point.
When Léon was implicated as blood doping facilitator, he committed suicide within a matter of days. Never got to offer his side of the story.
We need Lance alive, for a long time, to take full blame, and be subject of our endless jokes at his grotesk evil and stupidity.

 

[kurtinsc]

Ha, he is cheering a Russian guy for being given a gold medal over a fellow American? What happened to "USA, USA, USA"...

Also - didn't Herman say that part of Hamiltons motivation to talk was that he will not lose the medal - it must be hard for Fabiani to keep up with the spin.

An interesting thing from this is it actually is much more likely that Hamilton will lose his olympic medal then that Lance will lose any of his Tour wins.

The tour has pretty much set the precedent that as long as you don't test positive DURING the race... you'll keep your win even if it found or you admit to doping during the race at a later date. I'd be suprised if they take his wins away given that guys like Riis and Ulrich have kept theirs.

The olympics on the other hand have been much more willing to strip medals even decades after the fact.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Can we just clarify

Is Tyler bitter, disgruntled, or an alcoholic?

I think foremost he's tired out and worn out by this weight he's been carrying around his neck for years, and which has gotten heavier since bird-dog Novitsky flushed the truth out of him after he was subpoenaed to testify last August. He must feel better to get it off his chest. He might also be bitter and disgrunthled if he was forced or pressured into taking PEDs against his better judgement. Maybe that's why Kevin Livingston retired early. It will be interesting to see what is revealed during "60 minutes", and what (if anything) comes about from Hincapie.

Anyone sense an indictment coming soon?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

He has definitely spent too many years with people who will submit. To the point that he believes in his own invincibility? Maybe. But at the same time he isn't stupid and must be aware of his pridicament.

When you have the UCI in your pocket and an unquestioning media it makes you feel invincible. I am sure they never expected the Feds to get involved.
To the Blue - at this stage it appears he feels he has no other coice but to keep the lie alive.

Victim of his success? Maybe. Is anyone chasing down other champions and multiple classic winners to prove their involvement in doping?

The investigation didn't start with Armstrong - but as the mob in Austin & San Fran were in control of US cycling it was inevitably that it would lead back to them and Armstrong.

As previously stated Hincapie coming out and saying I was never tested positive but I doped with LA would put everyone out of their misery and allow the sport to move on and be reborn.

Not really - if GH came out we would hear the "of course he doped, they all did it, SSDD" or that GH is close to retirement and just looking to promote his cycling apparel business or some book that he may never write.

 

[theswordsman]

To be honest I don't want him to suffer. He did what all the other riders were doing and is, in part a victim of the system. He can keep his credibility with enough of the Great American Public to make a living.

I want to see him lose all credibility openly within the sport so cycling can move forwards and continue to improve. So that young ambitious and talented riders don't follow the same path. So that we ammateur racers and fans can believe in bike racing.

If by "he" you mean Armstrong, he's accused of doing much more than doping like the others. Where would you draw the line? Is it OK if he used illegally obtained drugs from clinical trials? How about if he transported drugs from country to country bypassing Customs with helicopters and private jets? What if he lied in order to win a multi-million dollar lawsuit?

How do you feel about tax evasion? Would that be OK? Money laundering? What if he acted as a drug dealer, either handing out doping products to his teammates, or having them buy from him?

What if he bribed doping officials to give advance notice of tests? What if he bribed top people at the UCI to cover up positive tests?

The thing about EPO, especially enough for a team, is where does it come from? You hear about hospital pharmacies, but the way that actually works is, a patient is prescribed EPO. Someone gives them a diluted dose - less than they require for treatment - and set aside the rest for sale. Would it be OK if hospital patients stayed sick, or even died, because Lance needed their EPO to win bike races?

Another source of EPO is large-scale theft. Someone steals a pallet full, or a truckload. So what if organized crime is responsible for the theft and distribution, and Lance bought from them? That would be cool, right, because it's Lance, after all.

And the people he maligned don't matter, right? Frankie and Betsy, Emma, TexPat? That's all a part of life, huh?

There's a reason this case includes the FDA, the DEA, the FBI, Interpol, and police in Spain, Switzerland, Italy and France. They haven't spent the past year trying to prove one guy used illegal methods to win a race.

Is there any crime in existence that Lance could commit that wouldn't be acceptable?

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

I think foremost he's tired out and worn out by this weight he's been carrying around his neck for years, and which has gotten heavier since bird-dog Novitsky flushed the truth out of him after he was subpoenaed to testify last August. He must feel better to get it off his chest. He might also be bitter and disgrunthled if he was forced or pressured into taking PEDs against his better judgement. Maybe that's why Kevin Livingston retired early. It will be interesting to see what is revealed during "60 minutes", and what (if anything) comes about from Hincapie.

Anyone sense an indictment coming soon?

Here's the quote from Tyler that I was looking for in the post above:

The question most people ask is, why now? There are two reasons. The first has to do with the federal investigation into cycling. Last summer, I received a subpoena to testify before a grand jury. Until that moment I walked into the courtroom, I hadn't told a soul. My testimony went on for six hours. For me, it was like the Hoover dam breaking. I opened up; I told the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. And I felt a sense of relief I'd never felt before -- all the secrets, all the weight I'd been carrying around for years suddenly lifted. I saw that, for me personally, this was the way forward.

Tyler Hamilton's letter of confession

 

[kurtinsc]

Maserati... what is your objection to the "of course he doped, they all did it" response?

I've held that belief for over 5 years now. I'm simply not willing to believe any rider of note is clean. I don't view it as a defense for doping... simply as an acknowledgement of fact.

Is there some reason you feel that isn't accurate or shouldn't be said?

 

[Anonymous]

An interesting thing from this is it actually is much more likely that Hamilton will lose his olympic medal then that Lance will lose any of his Tour wins.

The tour has pretty much set the precedent that as long as you don't test positive DURING the race... you'll keep your win even if it found or you admit to doping during the race at a later date. I'd be suprised if they take his wins away given that guys like Riis and Ulrich have kept theirs.

The olympics on the other hand have been much more willing to strip medals even decades after the fact.

If you believe the ASO would not jump with joy at the chance to strip him of his titles, you read them differently than do I. Their statements of righteous indignation regarding the fraud perpetrated upon them by Armstrong have probably already been written, and are merely waiting to be read. I won't go into their complicity in relation to the fraud, but to suggest that he will keep his titles is a bit optimistic.

 

[spalco]

Precisely. The most a whistleblower stands to gain is a few dollars in interview fees and maybe a modest book deal. Team Armstrong has infinitely more to gain by lying and maintaining the lie.

Btw as far as I know 60 Minutes strongly insist they don't pay for interviews.

 

[Anonymous]

Maserati... what is your objection to the "of course he doped, they all did it" response?

I've held that belief for over 5 years now. I'm simply not willing to believe any rider of note is clean. I don't view it as a defense for doping... simply as an acknowledgement of fact.

Is there some reason you feel that isn't accurate or shouldn't be said?

Because it is used as a defense to also say "so what? He does all this cancer stuff that shows that he is still a hero there" by many. The problem with that is that the "hero" is still lying through his teeth, and smearing people along the way. So you will have to excuse me if I find the "he did it so what everyone did" defense a bit offensive.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

An interesting thing from this is it actually is much more likely that Hamilton will lose his olympic medal then that Lance will lose any of his Tour wins.

The tour has pretty much set the precedent that as long as you don't test positive DURING the race... you'll keep your win even if it found or you admit to doping during the race at a later date. I'd be suprised if they take his wins away given that guys like Riis and Ulrich have kept theirs.

The olympics on the other hand have been much more willing to strip medals even decades after the fact.

Riis admission was outside the Statute of Limitations.
Ullrich? His suspension for ecstasy was nothing to do with the Tour. Where has he admitted anything?

You're right that the UCI have often failed to follow up on some cases - but Armstrong is being investigated by the USADA who are not on his payoll.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Maserati... what is your objection to the "of course he doped, they all did it" response?

I've held that belief for over 5 years now. I'm simply not willing to believe any rider of note is clean. I don't view it as a defense for doping... simply as an acknowledgement of fact.

Is there some reason you feel that isn't accurate or shouldn't be said?

My objection is because it is not true - you think every single person who threw a leg over a bike doped??

If it is so prevalent as you suggest, then why does Armstrong continue to deny it?

 

[Cloxxki]

So, what's your guesses? Is Hincapie squeezing the last bit of goodwill out of HWSNBN before It All Ends, or has he really lied before grand jury?
It's a tough coin to flip.

 

[kurtinsc]

Riis admission was outside the Statute of Limitations.
Ullrich? His suspension for ecstasy was nothing to do with the Tour. Where has he admitted anything?

You're right that the UCI have often failed to follow up on some cases - but Armstrong is being investigated by the USADA who are not on his payoll.

Do you think the tour would take a jersey away? All of them?

There are plenty of admitted/caught dopers who've won a tour. Perhaps I can imagine them taking away a win from the one where he tested positive years later with tests not available at the time... but given that a person who admitted doping during the race still has his win, I find it difficult to believe they'll strip wins from someone still denying it even if convicted.

 

[Archibald]

Yup. I can't see the 'tearful confession' scenario ever being an option, he's spent too long being bullish about it.

Thing is, LA still has a lot of capital with the Great American Public. If he maintains the lie, even if he does time for it, he can still come out at the end of it with fans and a living to be made. If anything he stands to lose more by confessing.

It would be his best way out, as this is where his good friend Oprah and her followers come in...

 

[Magic Spanner]

OK OK

I agree with all that. I loathe the man and all he stands for. I guess I want to focus mire on the future of cycling and less on what happens to Armstrong.

Interesting and positive that the debate on here us how best to proceed. What Armstrongs options and state of mental health are and whether, and to what degree he should suffer/be punished. No debate on here about his guilt.

If by "he" you mean Armstrong, he's accused of doing much more than doping like the others. Where would you draw the line? Is it OK if he used illegally obtained drugs from clinical trials? How about if he transported drugs from country to country bypassing Customs with helicopters and private jets? What if he lied in order to win a multi-million dollar lawsuit?

How do you feel about tax evasion? Would that be OK? Money laundering? What if he acted as a drug dealer, either handing out doping products to his teammates, or having them buy from him?

What if he bribed doping officials to give advance notice of tests? What if he bribed top people at the UCI to cover up positive tests?

The thing about EPO, especially enough for a team, is where does it come from? You hear about hospital pharmacies, but the way that actually works is, a patient is prescribed EPO. Someone gives them a diluted dose - less than they require for treatment - and set aside the rest for sale. Would it be OK if hospital patients stayed sick, or even died, because Lance needed their EPO to win bike races?

Another source of EPO is large-scale theft. Someone steals a pallet full, or a truckload. So what if organized crime is responsible for the theft and distribution, and Lance bought from them? That would be cool, right, because it's Lance, after all.

And the people he maligned don't matter, right? Frankie and Betsy, Emma, TexPat? That's all a part of life, huh?

There's a reason this case includes the FDA, the DEA, the FBI, Interpol, and police in Spain, Switzerland, Italy and France. They haven't spent the past year trying to prove one guy used illegal methods to win a race.

Is there any crime in existence that Lance could commit that wouldn't be acceptable?

 

[Anonymous]

Do you think the tour would take a jersey away? All of them?

There are plenty of admitted/caught dopers who've won a tour. Perhaps I can imagine them taking away a win from the one where he tested positive years later with tests not available at the time... but given that a person who admitted doping during the race still has his win, I find it difficult to believe they'll strip wins from someone still denying it even if convicted.

They have requested his samples, and I have heard nothing other than they will receive them. I would imagine there will be some tests performed on them. I wouldn't rule out positive tests just yet.

 

[elapid]

Do you think the tour would take a jersey away? All of them?

There are plenty of admitted/caught dopers who've won a tour. Perhaps I can imagine them taking away a win from the one where he tested positive years later with tests not available at the time... but given that a person who admitted doping during the race still has his win, I find it difficult to believe they'll strip wins from someone still denying it even if convicted.

On a side note, Lance twitted congratulations to Ekimov on his third Olympic gold medal. So if he thinks that Eki is going to inherit the 2004 Gold medal because of Tyler's admittance, then his yellow jerseys also have to be up for grabs when he is found guilty.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

So, what's your guesses? Is Hincapie squeezing the last bit of goodwill out of HWSNBN before It All Ends, or has he really lied before grand jury?
It's a tough coin to flip.

I think Hincapie told the truth before GJ, otherwise he would not have reacted so defensivly ("no comment", meaning leave me alone). He would have more acted like Ochowicz.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Do you think the tour would take a jersey away? All of them?

There are plenty of admitted/caught dopers who've won a tour. Perhaps I can imagine them taking away a win from the one where he tested positive years later with tests not available at the time... but given that a person who admitted doping during the race still has his win, I find it difficult to believe they'll strip wins from someone still denying it even if convicted.

Yes, actually I do.
The 'Tour' as you call it do not get to select who does or does not win - they enforce the results if someone gets sanctioned.
This is too big for USADA to ignore.

Riis was outside the SOL (8 years)- please stop ignoring that.