Tyler Hamilton confessions/accusations

[131313]

But there will still be plenty of cycling fans (me included) who find the way this "investigation" is going down to be quite disgraceful. I'd much prefer the authorities to spend more time figuring out how to ensure a healthy and fair current cycling peloton (via improved testing or whatever) than attempt to clean it up by talking about retired cyclists who managed to defeat their testing regime (and or sanctions) all those years. Because I don't really see how the latter will accomplish the goal of making today's cycling any better. Oh well.

Of all of the apologist nonsense I read, I find your comments above the most offensive.

Here's a hint: having a guy who cheated his way to 7 TDF wins running the most influential U23/development team in the US (and one of the top development teams in the world) really isn't that way to "move forward".

Removing Armstrong's fingers from any and all involvement with the sport of cycling is a necessary step, and if you don't realize this then you just aren't paying attention.

The total farce that's going on at the ToCali should make it clear that the same infrastructure is in place, same as it ever was...

 

[VeloCity]

Yes, actually I do.
The 'Tour' as you call it do not get to select who does or does not win - they enforce the results if someone gets sanctioned.
This is too big for USADA to ignore.

Riis was outside the SOL (8 years)- please stop ignoring that.

I think what Kurt is saying is that Riis specifically confessed that he doped for the '96 Tour, ie that one race itself, and unless Armstrong makes a similar confession - ie "I doped for the '03 Tour" - just being exposed as a doper in general may not be enough to have his Tour titles stripped away, statute of limitations or not. For eg Heras got to keep all of his Vuelta wins after testing positive for EPO, as did Valverde and Vino et al, and same for Basso's '06 Giro win, etc etc. So unless Armstrong specifically admits that he doped for this or that Tour or there's a retro positive in one or two of his TdF samples or some other damning evidence that he doped during this or that Tour win, he probably won't have his titles officially stripped, although most likely they will be asterisked.

 

[skippythepinhead]

The whole "defend Lance to the death" squad is just looking so sexy right now, I'm thinking of jumping into denial with them for a change of pace.

 

[Hugh Januss]

The whole "defend Lance to the death" squad is just looking so sexy right now, I'm thinking of jumping into denial with them for a change of pace.

You really find stupid to be sexy?

 

[JRTinMA]

They IOC may have a different opinion than the clinic.

http://m.apnews.com/ap/db_15881/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=gDxCgSE8

 

[cat6cx]

Is Tyler going to corroborate Floyd’s story of Lance failing a 2001 tour du swiss test?

I realize it is still Lance “telling them he failed” which could be Lance lying to brag about his power. (I like his credibility).

But I think this would be a big story either way.

I saw mention of the fact that Tyler was going to say this on 60 minutes, but I don’t know if anyone can confirm that.

 

[alvynmcq]

I think he did mention it.

But sure Lance can't have failed a test in 2001, most tested athlete in history/stopped using epo after 1999 which is when he became successful because epo was holding him back/most tested athlete in history/cured cancer/saved cycling/tyler is a drunken, drug addict/floyds the same/andreu is bitter/etc.etc.etc.

 

[VeloCity]

But there will still be plenty of cycling fans (me included) who find the way this "investigation" is going down to be quite disgraceful. I'd much prefer the authorities to spend more time figuring out how to ensure a healthy and fair current cycling peloton (via improved testing or whatever) than attempt to clean it up by talking about retired cyclists who managed to defeat their testing regime (and or sanctions) all those years. Because I don't really see how the latter will accomplish the goal of making today's cycling any better. Oh well.

Except that's not what the investigation is about at all.

btw is it me or does 500 in and out of competition tests over a 20 year period not really sound like all that many, especially for a 7-time Tour winner and winner of multiple stages etc? That's what, 25 tests per year, on average? And then of course it's not actually 25 per year, but the bulk of those would be clumped around one month, ie July, over a 7-year period.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I think what Kurt is saying is that Riis specifically confessed that he doped for the '96 Tour, ie that one race itself, and unless Armstrong makes a similar confession - ie "I doped for the '03 Tour" - just being exposed as a doper in general may not be enough to have his Tour titles stripped away, statute of limitations or not. For eg Heras got to keep all of his Vuelta wins after testing positive for EPO, as did Valverde and Vino et al, and same for Basso's '06 Giro win, etc etc. So unless Armstrong specifically admits that he doped for this or that Tour or there's a retro positive in one or two of his TdF samples or some other damning evidence that he doped during this or that Tour win, he probably won't have his titles officially stripped, although most likely they will be asterisked.

I'll let Kurt answer for Kurt - but you are wrong about Heras, he got popped during the Vuelta and that result was amended, but there is no reason (or evidence) to deny him the other results. Same with Vino.

I'm pretty sure Basso did a deal with CONI - they said take your 2 years now or we will go through the court system and get your DNA tested against 'Brillo' and take all results from 2004.

As for LA having to admit - no, USADA are not RFEC, ask Leogrande.

 

[cat6cx]

I think he did mention it.

But sure Lance can't have failed a test in 2001, most tested athlete in history/stopped using epo after 1999 which is when he became successful because epo was holding him back/most tested athlete in history/cured cancer/saved cycling/tyler is a drunken, drug addict/floyds the same/andreu is bitter/etc.etc.etc.

lol, very nice.

I would love to finally get a bit more evidence of this failed test to shut some people up, but I don't know if any more will come out of it than claims of "Lance told me he failed".

 

[Cobblestoned]

The whole "defend Lance to the death" squad is just looking so sexy right now, I'm thinking of jumping into denial with them for a change of pace.

We mostly just enjoy following the hater's moment of glory for now, their achievements and their self-celebration party today.
Looks like these are the REAL moments in life that really matter.

Sexy Tyler is officially unsignificant - he just uses the hater's slipstream.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Of all of the apologist nonsense I read, I find your comments above the most offensive.

Here's a hint: having a guy who cheated his way to 7 TDF wins running the most influential U23/development team in the US (and one of the top development teams in the world) really isn't that way to "move forward".

Removing Armstrong's fingers from any and all involvement with the sport of cycling is a necessary step, and if you don't realize this then you just aren't paying attention.

The total farce that's going on at the ToCali should make it clear that the same infrastructure is in place, same as it ever was...

+1

Add to your list, the brain trust running USAC is tightly connected to Wonderboy's development team. Tailwind and the top of USAC need to go far, FAR away from the sport.

 

[skippythepinhead]

You really find stupid to be sexy?

I mean sexy in the way that delivering the mail to a house that is under flood water would make the mailman sexy.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Tanker

Tyler looked very out of in the CBS teaser for the 60minutes story. I guess the gravity of the situation has him shocked to the core.

In the letter to his friends and family he said something about “Tanker and I are loving our Boulder life” I guess Tanker is his dog. All I can say is let’s hope that Tanker does not take an unexpected dirt nap like Tugboat did. If that happens someone needs to get to him quick in order to stop the unavoidable melt down this guy will have.



I hope he gets above this and moves along with his life.

 

[DirtyWorks]

lol, very nice.

I would love to finally get a bit more evidence of this failed test to shut some people up, but I don't know if any more will come out of it than claims of "Lance told me he failed".

You know the problem with going this route is, right? There's no amount of "evidence" to change a believer's mind. At that point it's not logic, not inference, it's faith.

The Public Strategies/Fabiani hustle is to discredit anecdotal and inferred observation by always and forever asking for 'credible' evidence. It keeps the believers going. Ex. 'credible' is no official positive doping tests, when in fact we know the UCI has made handling doping cases any way they see fit into a fraudulent masterpiece. The faithful won't yield to the reality that you can't trust the UCI because for whatever reason, they simply can't let the faith fail them.

 

[cat6cx]

If that happens someone needs to get to him quick in order to stop the unavoidable melt down this guy will have.

I hope he gets above this and moves along with his life.

Tyler and Floyd are moving on with their lives and a lot further from a meltdown than someone else. Truth is much easier to live with.

 

[VeloCity]

I'll let Kurt answer for Kurt - but you are wrong about Heras, he got popped during the Vuelta and that result was amended, but there is no reason (or evidence) to deny him the other results. Same with Vino.

I'm pretty sure Basso did a deal with CONI - they said take your 2 years now or we will go through the court system and get your DNA tested against 'Brillo' and take all results from 2004.

As for LA having to admit - no, USADA are not RFEC, ask Leogrande.

Sorry, wasn't trying to answer for kurt, just trying to interpret what he was saying True about Heras, but the reason that he kept those other Vuelta wins was because there was no evidence specifically for those races, which may in the end be true of Armstrong vis a vis his Tour wins.

So even if it's obvious that he was doping during that period (which it is to anyone who follows the sport and which imo is going to become common knowledge to the general public soon enough), if there's nothing specifically linking him to doping during those Tours - if there is no retro positive Tour sample or a confession of doping during a specific Tour, etc - I can't see how the UCI could strip his Tour wins when they haven't done the same for Heras, Vino, Valverde, etc.

I suppose the question is, would it be enough if in the end 3 or 4 or 5 USPS riders testified that they saw Armstrong doping during this or that Tour to "justify" the UCI stripping his title for those specific Tours?

And even if they did strip all 7 Tour titles, is anyone going to consider Zulle, Ullrich, Beloki, Kloden, and Basso as the "rightful" winners? We're just as cynical about them as we are about Armstrong. I have no sympathy for the UCI whatsoever, but I think sorting all of this out is going to become pretty damn messy.

 

[VeloCity]

We mostly just enjoy following the hater's moment of glory for now, their achievements and their self-celebration party today.
Looks like these are the REAL moments in life that really matter.

Sexy Tyler is officially unsignificant - he just uses the hater's slipstream.

Don't you hate it when the haters turn out to be right all along.

 

[Merckx index]

Sorry, deleted.

 

[cat6cx]

You know the problem with going this route is, right? There's no amount of "evidence" to change a believer's mind. At that point it's not logic, not inference, it's faith.

I agree. My hope is that if there actually was a failed 2001 test and Lance wasn't making it up (how weird is that anyway?), there would be hard evidence that would eventually come to light.

 

[benzwire]

Any comments from LeMond yet? I think he's sitting back and basking in this glorious disaster as it unfolds.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Tyler and Floyd are moving on with their lives and a lot further from a meltdown than someone else. Truth is much easier to live with.

I agree.

I was not trying to say that I am looking forward to any meltdown and I was not comparing him to anyone else.

 

[sniper]

I agree. My hope is that if there actually was a failed 2001 test and Lance wasn't making it up (how weird is that anyway?), there would be hard evidence that would eventually come to light.

I think a 100.000 dollar (or how much was it?) check is quite hard.
Actually, Hein might still be jurking off on it.

What the heck needs to "come to light eventually"? Hasn't everything come to light already? It's all there waiting for the blindfolded to open their eyes.
As Owl would have said: "Open thou eyes, and thou shall seeth"

 

[Bag_O_Wallet]

Any comments from LeMond yet? I think he's sitting back and basking in this glorious disaster as it unfolds.

I think his emotions are far more complex than that.

 

[cat6cx]

I think a 100.000 dollar (or how much was it?) check is quite hard.
Actually, Hein might still be jurking off on it.

What the heck needs to "come to light eventually"? Hasn't everything come to light already? It's all there waiting for the blindfolded to open their eyes.
As Owl would have said: "Open thou eyes, and thou shall seeth"

I'd like to see documentation of failed test results. I can definately connect the dots, but having a documented "failed test" is a nice smoking gun. That's all I'm saying.