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Tyler Hamilton

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First, it was mentioned back in I think September he was planning on trying to coach or help train others, so this isn't a huge bit of news.

I have to say as one who with a lot of experience in depression, I'd be surprised if he's fully recovered. It would be amazing if he went from being so far down and so despondent that he would ruin his marriage and career, and self-medicate, to nine months later being cured. He was diagnosed as far back as 2003, and was getting help all that time with both professional psychological help and prescription medication. So for the six years after that he slowly got worse, but in the last nine months he went from rock bottom, to healed? If that's so, either he wasn't suffering from depression and that was an excuse for the DHEA and other drugs, or he's probably not fully recovered.

I don't have as much an issue with the doping, as it has been endemic to the sport and he's in the 90% majority of participants, though would have to be considered a "heavy" doper I suppose. I do however have a big problem with his continuing to lie about it.
BroDeal said:
Why should anyone man up? The system is completely corrupt
I fully agree the UCI is corrupt BroDeal, but the solution is not to continue to lie, but to take a stand. He should not only tell the truth, but tell the truth about the UCI and call them out, and help make people aware of how corrupt it is. By continuing to pretend he didn't dope, he's just facilitating matters to continue the way they are.

I will say I can see why he won't talk until 2012, as it's fairly likely riders he raced against when winning races were doped as well, and he knows it. But it doesn't excuse anything.

At the end of 2008 he hinted at some point coming clean and candidly speaking about the sport,saying there was a "mafia" control about it. Something that would be little surprise to many of us hardcore fans. Hopefully some day that will happen when he does talk about it, but until it does, and at least he admits what he did, I can't support the guy who was once my favorite cyclist. At the very least now that he's effectively banned for life he could give a vague Roberto Heras like comment and admit he made mistakes in his career and wants to move on. But nothing. But he doesn't even do that.

I mean, what's wrong with the truth? Why not tell the truth? Why be afraid of the truth?
flicker said:
Unlike LeMond I shall not focus on one cheater. I do not operate out of jelousy..
You said in another post people should study the sport. Well, I'm going to suggest you study Lemond, because your above quote shows how little you know about his fight against doping. It sounds like you've only been reading press fed information from Public Strategies.
 
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Michele said:
You gotta make a living after your cycling career, aint it?
+1
That's what he knows to do, it's the best way to earn a living.

Anyway I don't undesrtand how a man who “has a mental strength that few others have” was seriously ill with depression.:D Contradictory enough at least;)
 
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Susan Westemeyer said:
The one has nothing to do with the other.

Susan
That's what I'm saying, too:D
Jokes apart, I don't deny that he was depressed, I just doubt how much mental strength there is when you are busted, not once, but twice for the same "crime".
 
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the only way to compete at that level in 2003 is by doing what they all did...he's no worse than most of them...can't pick too much on one man. Good luck to him
 
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I pretty much agree with everything that Alpe d'Huez said.

For his doping, he should have been punished (as he was) but deserves no greater criticism than many others. For his behaviour since being caught (specifically the persistent lies and the extortion of money from fans to keep his lies going) he deserves serious criticism.

What makes him a "great guy"? If a friend of mine asked me to fund his defence to a court case and then, after stumping up the cash, I became sure that he was guilty all along, I would not think of him as a great guy, regardless of how many fluffy bunnies he saved.

I am pleased he is on the road to recovery from depression, but I still have zero respect for him as a person.
 

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Tuggs

I think Tyler is a great guy because;
He did well in Europe cycling; yes he did dope but most of his competition did also.
He wrote excellent articles in velosnooze giving insight about an American in the European peloton.
He loved his dog and his wife.
He has a sense of humor ie: the phantom identical twin.
He raced his bike with gusto and spirit.

As far as donating money to his causes I hope people do not feel deceived or cheated. I consider those freewill offerings same as dropping coin at church or at the local bike shop.

I have learned from life that to live vicariously through others is to tempt disappointment anger and a sense of being cheated.

I do not feel cheated by Tyler, he cheated himself.

I hope he gets help.
 
flicker said:
He has a sense of humor ie: the phantom identical twin.

If you think that's funny then you've got serious issues my man. The "phantom identical twin" (chimera) was used by Hamilton as an actual line of defense for his "false positive for blood doping" in his USADA and CAS hearings. So again, if you think that this was a big joke played by him on USADA, the CAS, all his fans and the pro cycling community in general then you've got some major issues.
 

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Hey blood doping is sick. Compulsive lying is sick. French kissing,coca tea bags. or being in a room with people who are high on coke and claiming that is why you are positive is sick.
Coulda been the Jack Daniels or coulda been my phantom twin....now that is original. I had to laugh.... sorry to offend.
The doping associations did their job on tyler ....Bravo.
Tyler needs to return his Gold medal.
That to me would show class.
 
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Who was the Hollywood wife who said "my husband cheats so much, I'm not even sure if our kids are his"? Tyler has lied so much--about having ever claimed to have a missing twin (it's in the court record: he did), about having a college degree (he left Colorado to race in Europe before he finished his studies), about having ever had any warnings from the UCI (they notified him about abnormal test results after the 2004 LBL)--and on and on and on. I can't think of any other rider who has so frequently stood in front of a microphone and tried to sell the public an endless series of complete untruths. And then there's the Fuentes fax...

I don't doubt Tyler's being a decent guy, and having problems with depression, but I wish DHEA didn't have a record of being used as a masking agent, because you sure as hell can't believe a word that comes out of Tyler's mouth.
 
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flicker said:
Hey blood doping is sick. Compulsive lying is sick. French kissing,coca tea bags. or being in a room with people who are high on coke and claiming that is why you are positive is sick.
Coulda been the Jack Daniels or coulda been my phantom twin....now that is original. I had to laugh.... sorry to offend.
The doping associations did their job on tyler ....Bravo.
Tyler needs to return his Gold medal.
That to me would show class.

Reading the Pez Cycling interview I sense a historical "spin" from Tyler based on long term depression. I don't know if being depressed causes moral lapses but Tyler's PED use started early and often. He was, as others have pointed out; from that generation that were readily exposed. If he wants to clear his conscience he would give it allback. That is doubtful because he still presents justifications. It would be interesting to hear candid stories as part of a cycling tour. That won't happen either.
 
Oldman said:
Reading the Pez Cycling interview I sense a historical "spin" from Tyler based on long term depression. I don't know if being depressed causes moral lapses but Tyler's PED use started early and often. He was, as others have pointed out; from that generation that were readily exposed. If he wants to clear his conscience he would give it allback. That is doubtful because he still presents justifications. It would be interesting to hear candid stories as part of a cycling tour. That won't happen either.

I saw it the same way:

PEZ: When did you first feel the effects of depression?

When I tested positive

PEZ: What are the symptoms of depression?

Like your whole world has collapsed. That sinking feeling that you've been found out. The feeling like you've been living a lie for your entire adult life.

PEZ: What is the treatment?

An appeal to CAS

PEZ: Have you established the cause of your depression?

Testing positive and long-term use of PED's.

PEZ: Are you still riding your bike; does that help?

It does to a level. But I'll never fly again like I did when I was on the full Fuentes program.

PEZ: Do you ever wish you had just accepted the sanction, said nothing and not put yourself through the pressure you did, to clear your name?

and what? Bring down the entire USPS and Phonak teams in one hit? No chance. Omerta my friend.

PEZ: With the latest situation - didn't it occur to ask for medical exemption?

I've been on so many drugs in my life I couldn't even remember what one to ask for a TUE on. Never have before so why start now. I generally only filled in those forms back in the USPS days if one of us had tested positive and we had to clear it up. JB took care of that.

PEZ: 2008 was a great year for you; wins in the Qinghai Lakes and US Pro - were those satisfying to you?

It was. I mean these races are so much better than LBL or the Tour. I love racing in China. They really love the sport and there is billion people over there compared to only 280 million French people. The biggest thrill is no dope controls.
 
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thehog said:
I saw it the same way:

PEZ: When did you first feel the effects of depression?

When I tested positive.

PEZ: When did you first feel the effects of depression?

That's a tough question. Probably when I was a young teenager. Looking back, I would have to say during my mid-teen years is when I first experienced symptoms of depression. It was sort of like being in a bit of a fog at times. I was always a quiet and shy kid and I spent a lot of time questioning myself.

i said i wouldnt argue with you, not that i wouldnt disagree with you... ;)

I really think the whole doping thing needs to be seperate from the depression..
depression is nothing about being sad or a bit down, or feeling like youve been found to be a cheat..

depression is a serious physcological illness.. having depression is nothing like being depressed,. being depressed you feel down, fed up, you get out of it.. depression is waking up each morning, with your pulse racing, or going slowly, not understanding why you are weak and tired, having days where you do and think things that are irrational, that you know deep down are irrational, but you cant help thinking are perfectly rational at the time..

tylers cheating was not the cause of his depression, just as he did not cheat originally because he was depressed..

depression really really must not be taken lightly..

personally i dont think tyler is over his depression, not in 9 months if it was the extreme it is reported to be.. if he has then hes shown amazing strength and will have nothing but respect from me.. my underlying beleif is that he is kidding himself, and i actually worry for him...

lets all slate him now though. maybe in a few years time we will all mourn him.. thankfully hes got past that fateful 34 years old..

and yes hog, i get what you where saying, just general the way depression is viewed in this thread saddens me a little.. have we learnt nothing from vdb, pantani, enke in football, shay elliot, the list goes on..
 
dimspace said:
PEZ: When did you first feel the effects of depression?

That's a tough question. Probably when I was a young teenager. Looking back, I would have to say during my mid-teen years is when I first experienced symptoms of depression. It was sort of like being in a bit of a fog at times. I was always a quiet and shy kid and I spent a lot of time questioning myself.

i said i wouldnt argue with you, not that i wouldnt disagree with you... ;)

I really think the whole doping thing needs to be seperate from the depression..

and yes hog, i get what you where saying, just general the way depression is viewed in this thread saddens me a little.. have we learnt nothing from vdb, pantani, enke in football, shay elliot, the list goes on..

Point taken.

I guess I was trying to separate the two as you did. I was engaged to a girl years ago who suffered from depression. With her I noted, as you stated, that I had no idea appreciation what was going on with the behaviour. I just took it as her being completely irrational.

However what I did learn from those 2 years of torment was that I've never met someone who was so manipulative, kniving and an out and out lier as she was.

Same applies to Tyler. He's a cheat and liar and has depression. He's also now attempting to manipulate the situation for us to feel sorry for him and make some connection that his depression was linked to being innocent of blood doping. He's making the connection not us. I don't believe him and I never will.

If he came out and told us the truth and also told us he was depressed I think we'd all want to support him. He only has himself to blame.

He's reference to 2003 and being totally depressed after the Tour sounds normal for any rider. Finishing 4th, winning a stage and signing a mega contract in the worlds biggest bike race of course there's going to be a comedown. But you add the drug comedown into that mix and the guilt thats hits you when you withdraw would have heightened this feeling. He knows it.

What also adds to my cynicism is that during the glory years Tyler was only too willing to portray and image of happy families, lovely cute dogs and being the "nice guy" in the peloton. Why now when he was busted for the 2nd time that he suddenly has such a "dark" illness?

In closing the guy must have a really really sick character to even think of using depression as he's get out clause of owning up to what he really did... and thats cheat. I could never live with that.
 
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thehog said:
In closing the guy must have a really really sick character to even think of using depression as he's get out clause of owning up to what he really did... and thats cheat. I could never live with that.

To be honest i think tyler for his own good should just dissapear.. fall back into the supporting nest of his family, concentrate on getting better, stop trying to live on past glories (or inglories), if he cant seperate himself from cycling now hes going to struggle..

as for beleiving him, i dont know, in 2003, depression was taboo, you didnt talk about it, even now, its only just thanks to some major sportspeople, and celebtrities coming forward, just becoming acceptable..

i think had he stepped out in 2003 and said he had depression, most people would have just said cheer up, what the f have you got to be depressed about..

doper yes, like many people... ill, yes, and i hope it beats it...i really do..
using his illness as an excuse.. im still on the fence..

thehog said:
What also adds to my cynicism is that during the glory years Tyler was only too willing to portray and image of happy families, lovely cute dogs and being the "nice guy" in the peloton.

denial is a wonderful thing... beleive it long enough you can convince yourself.. :D
 
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dimspace said:
To be honest i think tyler for his own good should just dissapear.. fall back into the supporting nest of his family, concentrate on getting better, stop trying to live on past glories (or inglories), if he cant seperate himself from cycling now hes going to struggle..

as for beleiving him, i dont know, in 2003, depression was taboo, you didnt talk about it, even now, its only just thanks to some major sportspeople, and celebtrities coming forward, just becoming acceptable..

i think had he stepped out in 2003 and said he had depression, most people would have just said cheer up, what the f have you got to be depressed about..

doper yes, like many people... ill, yes, and i hope it beats it...i really do..
using his illness as an excuse.. im still on the fence..




denial is a wonderful thing... beleive it long enough you can convince yourself.. :D

Seems like a good way to end this thread. Let him have his space and no more press.
 
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Good luck to Tyler. If you want to see what happens when the afflicted lose all hope, take this endeavor away from him. I wish him my best despite his imperfections and lies.
 
IRL (wow, I haven't used that one in awhile)...

In real life, Tyler is a really nice guy. He took time to talk to me at the Tour of Elk Grove while he was on Rock, shortly before his 2nd positive.

It's unfortunate his life ran the way it did.
 
dimspace said:
To be honest I think Tyler for his own good should just disappear.. fall back into the supporting nest of his family, concentrate on getting better...
I agree with you Dim, that would be healthiest for him. He could still ride a bike with various friends and have fun doing so without having to be involved in anything visible. I too worry about the guy's mental health, and fear there could be a day we wake up and read he's no longer with us. I hope that's never the case though.

Maybe this thread should quietly pass, as I said in my first post, the links announced weren't really that much news anyway.
 
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dimspace said:
PEZ: When did you first feel the effects of depression?

That's a tough question. Probably when I was a young teenager. Looking back, I would have to say during my mid-teen years is when I first experienced symptoms of depression. It was sort of like being in a bit of a fog at times. I was always a quiet and shy kid and I spent a lot of time questioning myself.

i said i wouldnt argue with you, not that i wouldnt disagree with you... ;)

I really think the whole doping thing needs to be seperate from the depression..
depression is nothing about being sad or a bit down, or feeling like youve been found to be a cheat..

depression is a serious physcological illness.. having depression is nothing like being depressed,. being depressed you feel down, fed up, you get out of it.. depression is waking up each morning, with your pulse racing, or going slowly, not understanding why you are weak and tired, having days where you do and think things that are irrational, that you know deep down are irrational, but you cant help thinking are perfectly rational at the time..

tylers cheating was not the cause of his depression, just as he did not cheat originally because he was depressed..

depression really really must not be taken lightly..

personally i dont think tyler is over his depression, not in 9 months if it was the extreme it is reported to be.. if he has then hes shown amazing strength and will have nothing but respect from me.. my underlying beleif is that he is kidding himself, and i actually worry for him...

l..

I don't consider depression a psychological illness at all, but an emotional illness which can have psychological and physical side effects. I think that is a fundamental misunderstanding of the problem which hinders sorting it.
Some people seem to suffer issues of depression and some mental health issues relating to PED use, but they're often short term, not obree like issues.
 
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thehog said:
Point taken.

I guess I was trying to separate the two as you did. I was engaged to a girl years ago who suffered from depression. With her I noted, as you stated, that I had no idea appreciation what was going on with the behaviour. I just took it as her being completely irrational.

However what I did learn from those 2 years of torment was that I've never met someone who was so manipulative, kniving and an out and out lier as she was.

Same applies to Tyler. He's a cheat and liar and has depression. He's also now attempting to manipulate the situation for us to feel sorry for him and make some connection that his depression was linked to being innocent of blood doping. He's making the connection not us. I don't believe him and I never will.

If he came out and told us the truth and also told us he was depressed I think we'd all want to support him. He only has himself to blame.

He's reference to 2003 and being totally depressed after the Tour sounds normal for any rider. Finishing 4th, winning a stage and signing a mega contract in the worlds biggest bike race of course there's going to be a comedown. But you add the drug comedown into that mix and the guilt thats hits you when you withdraw would have heightened this feeling. He knows it.

What also adds to my cynicism is that during the glory years Tyler was only too willing to portray and image of happy families, lovely cute dogs and being the "nice guy" in the peloton. Why now when he was busted for the 2nd time that he suddenly has such a "dark" illness?

In closing the guy must have a really really sick character to even think of using depression as he's get out clause of owning up to what he really did... and thats cheat. I could never live with that.

Being 'manipulative, kniving and an out and out lier' isn't a symptom of depression, just another aspect of the same person, but I think you might have a pointt about Hamilton's excuses.

Not that I'd want to agree with you on anything :eek: