Tyler's Book

[AntiGravityCycling]

'We all have them.' Couldn't someone just go and look at Lance's arms? Or Frank Schleck? Or Wiggins? I could see Lance using the excuse that they're from his cancer treatments, but if those scars are so prevalent then not every rider can just explain them away.[/QUOTE]


Not just from doping. They all have them from standard IV saline transfusions, and actual vitamins and the like too. I think every one of them is a pincushion after a few years, right?

 

[Ferminal]

IVs have been banned for years.

Last year a "No Needles Policy" was introduced.

 

[ElChingon]

IVs have been banned for years.

Last year a "No Needles Policy" was introduced.

I find these policies or catch phrases to be just catch phrases, wasn't a non-doping policy the line in the sand? Do they need to add every possible doping avenue/delivery mechanism year after year to get the the word across?

Yea, it falls on deaf ears.

What next, a no capsule policy, a no pharmaceutical derived substance policy, a no non-illness doctor policy, a I will actually read the rules policy? Yea, I guess they need to go that far, just one per year though, can't expect much from them or might go over their head(s)

 

[the big ring]

I find these policies or catch phrases to be just catch phrases, wasn't a non-doping policy the line in the sand? Do they need to add every possible doping avenue/delivery mechanism year after year to get the the word across?

ie no vitamin injections or saline IVs, etc.

 

[python]

i found it curious that according to tyler cecchini 'did not charge a dime' for his services whereas (in a different setting and chapter) he mentioned that ferrari once showed up at his door to demand 15,000 for the services rendered while on postal tyler could not recollect.

if that's a true story, the difference between the 2 italian trainers was indeed significant.

clearly one of them wanted to be called a trainer and nothing else.

@the big ring
saline injection are illegal since a while back. coni once built their entire case against diluca (and failed) on postulating a saline injection. the smaller needles are still allowed in very limited, medically controlled circumstances.

 

[LauraLyn]

Finally finished reading Tyler's book . . . .
To me, the distinguishing difference is the extent Armstrong went to interfere with other riders. Plus the symbiotic relationship between the sponsors (Nike, Trek), the UCI, Armstrong and Ferrari to the detriment of the rest of the peloton. That's the real story here and what makes the case so important. Unfortunately reading that from Tyler's book takes some effort...

Isn't this what made Lance "The Boss?" I mean, did Lance gain that title because he was indeed the best rider and everyone knew it? Or did he not get it because he was a bully who threatened to ruin others, and then also got a number of weak souls in the peleton who stormed around with him trying to make life difficult for anyone who did not worship "The Boss?" Could we say that there was a kind of group think in the peleton that was led, in that "dark period," by a darker side of life - mostly centered around cheating?

Perhaps if Tyler and others had stood up to Lance when they were on their bikes, we would be having a very different discussion here today.

 

[python]

@raul

Please take a look at the advice of scores of serious posters and please do not take the bate...clogging and obfuscation rendered too many threads usless already.

 

[trailrunner]

Plus the symbiotic relationship between the sponsors (Nike, Trek), the UCI, Armstrong and Ferrari to the detriment of the rest of the peloton. That's the real story here and what makes the case so important. Unfortunately reading that from Tyler's book takes some effort...

I don't recall much about the sponsors. There was the discussion about the A riders getting the good stuff, and the B riders getting the old beat up stuff, but that's all I remember.

 

[the big ring]

Huh?

Your posts remind me of this:

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2012...te-a-better-news-story-than-a-human-reporter/

Thankyou. I had not seen this story, and when someone mentioned mechanised shill I was instantly impressed at how far Eliza had come. Elisa and I had a few chats back in the day but she was never this impressive.

 

[ManInFull]

To me, the distinguishing difference is the extent Armstrong went to interfere with other riders. Plus the symbiotic relationship between the sponsors (Nike, Trek), the UCI, Armstrong and Ferrari to the detriment of the rest of the peloton. That's the real story here and what makes the case so important. Unfortunately reading that from Tyler's book takes some effort...

Well, isn't this actually Tyler Hamilton's story and not Lance's? And what you're commenting about is really the difference between a 2 year-ban and the lifetime ban that Lance received.

Personally, I don't care about the bans and the stripping all of his TdF titles. To me, the more important thing is that Tyler does an outstanding job in telling a story that makes it crystal clear that Lance Armstrong was doing the same things that all of the recognized dopers of his era were doing. He's no different and his success is a result of the doping. Largely everyone, including the non-cycling fans, will know this and accept it as fact.

 

[ManInFull]

When Jaksche described Fuentes as casually popping an anabolic steroid like a breath mint it pretty much confirmed his quackery.

Ferrari appears to be a methodical scientist. Fuentes appears to be a party boy with a medical degree.

Yes, the books makes it abundantly clear that there was a significant difference between Ferrari's and Fuentes' professionalism. Also, maybe I missed this in the book, but it seems that Ferrari didn't offer all of the same "services" that Fuentes did. It seems that he provided the sophisticated training and doping programs, but he didn't provide the drugs, store the BBs, or show up at races with the BBs for transfusions. Is that correct?

 

[Stingray34]

Damn Amazon!

They've pushed the kindle download for Aus out to the 19th. Prob edited to death, too.

Anyone seen copies in the bookshops in Aus?

 

[workingclasshero]

To me, the more important thing is that Tyler does an outstanding job in telling a story that makes it crystal clear that Lance Armstrong was doing the same things that all of the recognized dopers of his era were doing.

He did so much more than the rest, he was protected by the UCI and could give his mate Hein a bell whenever he wanted to scare for instance Ty Hamilton into doping less.

 

[airstream]

oh, i've just heard the book. got only at about 90-95%, sadly but still.. very strong stuff. could anyone concretize on a hemoglobin thingy, please?

 

[Benotti69]

Tyler is on Hardtalk on the BBC News channel tonight 00.30 to 01.00 UK and Ireland time. Brief video from the interview.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/hardtalk/9750759.stm

bit more info for those who want to watch.

Tyler Hamilton tells Tim Franks about the "dark era of cycling" and his hope that transparency about the past will make for a cleaner sport in the future.

You can watch the full interview on BBC World News on Tuesday 11th September 2012 at 03:30, 08:30, 15:30 and 20:30 GMT. It also broadcasts on the BBC News Channel in the UK at 04:30 BST on Tuesday 11th September and 00:30 BST on Wednesday 12th September 2012.

 

[LauraLyn]

Nice review of Tyler's book for the everyday gal:

http://www.skepticblog.org/2012/09/11/the-hidden-price-of-immoral-acts/

"The lengths these guys go to win are almost beyond comprehension. All you do is train, eat, and sleep. And dope."

"Okay, so everyone does it and the playing field is level, right? Wrong. First, there’s a serious science behind proper doping, and if you don’t have the dough to hire the best dope—and doping doctors—you’re left fumbling around with dosages and frequencies and wondering if the needle or bag of blood is contaminated . . . ."

"But the real harm is to those athletes who did not want to dope, who were given the choice to dope and opted out, who pulled over to the curb on the boulevard of broken dreams, stripped off their race number, and packed it in to go home, in most cases back to menial jobs or to finish high school or start college. Who are these cyclists? . . . "

"What is seen are the champions and the cheaters. What is unseen are the honest ones who had the courage and the character to walk away with their morality. This is the larger lesson of cheating. It robs everyone of what might have been. With cheating, what might have been is now what never was. It erases history. What is prologue is past."

All nicely said.

 

[BillytheKid]

Any word on the prequel? Taylor Hamilton: The Early Years.

 

[thehog]

Any word on the prequel? Taylor Hamilton: The Early Years.

Bicycling: So how did you satisfy yourself that what you were getting was 100 percent of the truth, and not 80?

Coyle: As I describe in the book, I set out the parameters. I would get full access to his materials and sources, nothing would be off limits. So, an example is the root beer can with the secret compartment in it [which Hamilton used to hide EPO]. There were testing moments where you pursue a line of inquiry and keep pursuing and see where it goes, and after a few weeks of this he sent me photos of secret root beer can.

After several months, we took a trip to Europe together and went to buildings where the events happened. When we walked through the Hotel l’Esplan [scene of a Tour de France transfusion], Tyler and I had to explain our reasons for looking at the rooms. So we told the owner we were having a family reunion and wanted to check the rooms to see if they were big enough. He gives us the key and off we go. Tyler led the way, right turn, left, and it was obvious he knew where he was going. And then when he opened the door, the room—the archway, how he can see across the foyer into the room where Lance was getting a transfusion—it was exactly as he described it. Everything was the same. When you’ve had 10 of those moments, you think, “OK, there’s something here,” and at 100 of those, you’re more sure. And then you triangulate with other sources; you ask “Is this true?” and when it all lines up with what you were told, then you get pretty secure that this is all real.

http://bicycling.com/blogs/boulderr...e-tyler-hamilton-and-lance-armstrongs-legacy/

 

[Cloxxki]

Bicycling: So how did you satisfy yourself that what you were getting was 100 percent of the truth, and not 80?

Coyle: As I describe in the book, I set out the parameters. I would get full access to his materials and sources, nothing would be off limits. So, an example is the root beer can with the secret compartment in it [which Hamilton used to hide EPO]. There were testing moments where you pursue a line of inquiry and keep pursuing and see where it goes, and after a few weeks of this he sent me photos of secret root beer can.

After several months, we took a trip to Europe together and went to buildings where the events happened. When we walked through the Hotel l’Esplan [scene of a Tour de France transfusion], Tyler and I had to explain our reasons for looking at the rooms. So we told the owner we were having a family reunion and wanted to check the rooms to see if they were big enough. He gives us the key and off we go. Tyler led the way, right turn, left, and it was obvious he knew where he was going. And then when he opened the door, the room—the archway, how he can see across the foyer into the room where Lance was getting a transfusion—it was exactly as he described it. Everything was the same. When you’ve had 10 of those moments, you think, “OK, there’s something here,” and at 100 of those, you’re more sure. And then you triangulate with other sources; you ask “Is this true?” and when it all lines up with what you were told, then you get pretty secure that this is all real.

http://bicycling.com/blogs/boulderr...e-tyler-hamilton-and-lance-armstrongs-legacy/

Is that compelling? I could want zig-zag through hotels I've been to, and describe a room's interior. No reason to disbelieve, just asking.

 

[thehog]

Is that compelling? I could want zig-zag through hotels I've been to, and describe a room's interior. No reason to disbelieve, just asking.

Yes I think Tyler manufactured the entire book. It's all made up. It didn't happen.

It's adds context and verfication. Let's get Foxy Knoxy to walk the room shall we?

 

[ElChingon]

...
Coyle: As I describe in the book, I set out the parameters. I would get full access to his materials and sources, nothing would be off limits. So, an example is the root beer can with the secret compartment in it [which Hamilton used to hide EPO]. There were testing moments where you pursue a line of inquiry and keep pursuing and see where it goes, and after a few weeks of this he sent me photos of secret root beer can.

After several months, we took a trip to Europe together and went to buildings where the events happened. When we walked through the Hotel l’Esplan [scene of a Tour de France transfusion], Tyler and I had to explain our reasons for looking at the rooms. So we told the owner we were having a family reunion and wanted to check the rooms to see if they were big enough. He gives us the key and off we go. Tyler led the way, right turn, left, and it was obvious he knew where he was going. And then when he opened the door, the room—the archway, how he can see across the foyer into the room where Lance was getting a transfusion—it was exactly as he described it. Everything was the same. When you’ve had 10 of those moments, you think, “OK, there’s something here,” and at 100 of those, you’re more sure. And then you triangulate with other sources; you ask “Is this true?” and when it all lines up with what you were told, then you get pretty secure that this is all real...

More please

 

[Cloxxki]

Yes I think Tyler manufactured the entire book. It's all made up. It didn't happen.

It's adds context and verfication. Let's get Foxy Knoxy to walk the room shall we?

Not trying to detract at all. Just trying to understand what the deal is about first telling a man about a specific hotel, and then showing it in person. It's good background info for the book, but not something that would contribute to believing the man you're writing for. I prefers answers over stories for truth. Anyway, should be an interesting read.

 

[Raul Ramaya]

@raul

Please take a look at the advice of scores of serious posters and please do not take the bate...clogging and obfuscation rendered too many threads usless already.

My post was not in response to LL - would have written the same even if he/she had not posted.

I agree with your sentiment however. I really miss Flicker/Polish - at least they were entertaining!

 

[Raul Ramaya]

Well, isn't this actually Tyler Hamilton's story and not Lance's? .

I don't agree. From the very first chapter Tyler frames it as equally Lance's story:

"... But should he have won seven Tours in a row? Absolutely not. So yes, I think people have the right to know the truth [...] then they can make up their own minds"

And then throughout there is an implicit contrast between what everyone else is doing and Lance's techniques. I just wish it had been more explicit.

It almost reads has though it was written by two people - which of course it was. I wonder if the portions that draw out the contrast were encouraged by Coyle. Perhaps Tyler himself isn't fully aware of the difference...

 

[ToreBear]

Not trying to detract at all. Just trying to understand what the deal is about first telling a man about a specific hotel, and then showing it in person. It's good background info for the book, but not something that would contribute to believing the man you're writing for. I prefers answers over stories for truth. Anyway, should be an interesting read.

It would be easier for Hamilton to remember details and emotions if he is brought back to a similar setting.

It could be coyle gets a stronger sence of his honesty, but more likely IMO is that it allows Coyle a better dramatic insight into what things were like. In that way he is better able to animate the story he is writing.