Tyler's Book

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the big ring

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LauraLyn said:
Wow, tough essay question.

Big boy, will you be in NYC anytime soon? If so, I suggest you take an evening and relax: http://www.marypoppins.com/ You'll definitely find your answer there.

Epic answer. Agreed. LauraLyn, you truly are a wonder.

Please tell me have you read the book yet? I must keep on topic or the
mods will be upset - I am sure you understand. I wonder if Tyler had to
delete much of his book for the UK press libel laws. Any idea, LauraLyn?
This is something that I fear for the Aussie version, that it will be eaten by
bot-flies and nothing left.

Ah well.
 

LauraLyn

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the big ring said:
Epic answer. Agreed. LauraLyn, you truly are a wonder.

Please tell me have you read the book yet? I must keep on topic or the
mods will be upset - I am sure you understand. I wonder if Tyler had to
delete much of his book for the UK press libel laws. Any idea, LauraLyn?
This is something that I fear for the Aussie version, that it will be eaten by
bot-flies and nothing left.

Ah well.

Thanks, yur nice. But really I'm just plain everyday folk.

To be safe the good people Down-under enjoying Her Majesty's holy reign might do well to have a friend living under different stars send you a legit copy of Tyler's book.
 

LauraLyn

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gooner said:

Listen to the audio version. The BBC video version is highly edited.

Tim Franks, opening the interview:

"Tyler Hamilton was a highly successful cyclist who used illegal performance enhancing drugs, so far so distinctly unremarkable. But Tyler Hamilton has another part of his life story. For years he was one of the closest colleagues and confidants of cycling's most extraordinary, most celebrated winners Lance Armstrong, the man who beat cancer to win the Tour de France seven times. Hamilton says that, as a roommate and a teammate, he saw . . . . "

I find this an extraordinary pejorative way to introduce Hamilton and such enormous praise for Armstrong, even before the interview starts.

Hamilton continually tries to speak of "the culture of doping" or the involvement of others besides just the riders, but Franks just ignores it and refuses to ask questions beyond "But didn't you choose to?" after Hamilton already has repeatedly said that he choose it himself and he takes full responsibility for his actions.

The media has no interest in objectivity in this matter.
 
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Benotti69 said:
That says more about you then it does about a cheating doper like Armstrong.

You chose to like the manner of his achievement even though it was obvious to fans that something was wrong in 1999. I think the problem in this case is not the doper.

The various anecdotes in the book paint quite a picture of Armstrong's personality. Insecure, paranoid, and vengeful. Tyler starts to look to strong? Armstrong hammers on him. Livingston asks for a pay raise? Armstrong fires him. Vandeveld makes fun of Armstrong's shoes? Armstrong is "hurt." Vandeveld beats Armstrong in a training camp time trial? Bruyneel fudges the results to spare Armstrong's feelings.

Were it not for the money, there is no way this guy would have people even pretending to be his friends.
 
Kennf1 said:
The various anecdotes in the book paint quite a picture of Armstrong's personality. Insecure, paranoid, and vengeful. Tyler starts to look to strong? Armstrong hammers on him. Livingston asks for a pay raise? Armstrong fires him. Vandeveld makes fun of Armstrong's shoes? Armstrong is "hurt." Vandeveld beats Armstrong in a training camp time trial? Bruyneel fudges the results to spare Armstrong's feelings.

Were it not for the money, there is no way this guy would have people even pretending to be his friends.

I would agree. When Tyler confronts Armstrong to why he called the UCI on him Armstrong behaves like a 12 year old. He lies, he says "it wasn't me, I didn't, I would never do that".

He's hardly the hero he claims to be. He's just a boy. A child in a man's body.
 

LauraLyn

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BBC "Hard Talk" Interview with Tyler Hamilton today:

Tim Franks, concluding at the end of the interview:

"Are you not at all sympathetic to the idea that whatever Lance Armstrong did or didn't do as a cyclist, and as I say he insists he has nothing to apologise for, this is a man who is of tremendous inspiration to hundreds of millions of people around the world, he has got that purchase on people's imaginations, he has raised hundreds of millions of dollars, for his charity because he can introduce himself as the man who beat cancer and won sever Tour de Frances. Is it right that he should be brought down this way by people such as you."

It is as if he did not listen to a word Tyler said.

Tyler:

"It's a tragic story."

Couldn't agree more.
 
Aug 18, 2009
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Interviewer in the Hardtalk programme is super annoying - talks too much, not giving respect to what Hamilton is saying.
 
Just got my copy! waitttt....there are no pictures!! :D

Speaking of pictures and the usual "copyright" "image" or "likeness" lingo, I wondered how Tyler got to use a photo of Lance. Would LA have to give permission?
 
taiwan said:
Interviewer in the Hardtalk programme is super annoying - talks too much, not giving respect to what Hamilton is saying.

Agree. That interview was atrocious and Franks should be taken up on that. Talking over him, bias towards Armstrong...just terrible.

Hamilton looked shocked at how erratic the questions were...very badly structured interview. Good thing it was on late night and no-one would be watching otherwise Joe Public would come away with the Lance Fans.
 

LauraLyn

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Cycle Chic said:
Agree. That interview was atrocious and Franks should be taken up on that. Talking over him, bias towards Armstrong...just terrible.

Hamilton looked shocked at how erratic the questions were...very badly structured interview. Good thing it was on late night and no-one would be watching otherwise Joe Public would come away with the Lance Fans.

Agree. But I also thought Hamilton did really well. He is improving with each interview. He's not comfortable with interviews, that seems clear. And he has not been trained on how to avoid interviewer's traps and deliberate misinterpretations. But he comes across as true, genuine, and the real deal. I'm impressed with him.
 

LauraLyn

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Microchip said:
Just got my copy! waitttt....there are no pictures!! :D

Speaking of pictures and the usual "copyright" "image" or "likeness" lingo, I wondered how Tyler got to use a photo of Lance. Would LA have to give permission?

No. Anyone can take a photo of anyone in public and publish it. (See the tabloid press for verification.) [There are some exceptions, for the lawyers out there.] The only permissions that are needed, and this along copyright laws, are those of the photographer.
 
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LauraLyn said:
No. Anyone can take a photo of anyone in public and publish it. (See the tabloid press for verification.) [There are some exception, for the lawyers out there.] The only permissions that are needed, and this along copyright laws, are those of the photographer.

This is an oversimplification and thus, not really true. A person does have a right to control the use of his/her image for publicity purposes. So would depend on the context of the photo within the book. If he used a photo of Armstrong on the cover, I'd imagine Armstrong would have a pretty good case for suing in most states.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personality_rights
 
Wouldn't sport events have a derogation to that though? With all athletes agreeing beforehand to a global licence to the organizer of the event that in turn allow the mandated media broadcasters to film/shoot the race within the set of agreed conditions? Or something to that effect...

It would just be a gigantic headache if you had to get or renew permission of athletes every time you want to use a photo. I would guess that as such you maybe need the authorization of the event organizer and/or the media outfit/journalist who made the image.
 
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Robert21 said:
Question is, who is encouraging us to think that the ruthless, individualistic, 'Dog eat dog', 'To the winner the spoils' values embodied by people like Armstrong are laudable?

I would argue that such beliefs are encouraged largely because they help to validate similar 'values' in the wider world. In this sense Armstrong is both one of the '1%', with a huge sense of entitlement to every cent he has scammed, and a promoter of the 'Full spectrum dominance' approach to conflict. He's the perfect propagandist for 'The American way' and even social Darwinism.

SNIP, SNIP

To my mind trying to win is still important, but only because this guarantees that you will strive to get the best out of yourself, and if you 'cheat' to win, you are ultimately cheating on yourself.

Provocative questions about cycling, sports, and the values they affirm. The Armstrong ethos as depicted by Hamilton and Coyle makes Armstrong out as this Hobbesian figure whose talent is in part an amoral ruthlessness that drives him to win in a “war of all against all.” That view resonates with the commonplace depiction of cycling as primitive competition. Remember the “gladiators” theme of the 2011 Tour de France riders presentation, not to mention the metaphoric nicknames of many famous riders, for example “The Cannibal,” “The Badger,” “Ivan the Terrible,” “Spartacus,” “The Cobra.” These depictions often go hand in hand with stories about the working-class roots of cycling, about the talented rider’s escape from the factory floor, and his drive to win as a means of avoiding a return to the factory.

You are exactly right that lionizing Lance, and the account of cycling as primitive competition I assumed in my earlier post, can “validate similar 'values' in the wider world,” where “Armstrong is both one of the '1%', with a huge sense of entitlement to every cent he has scammed, and a promoter of the 'Full spectrum dominance' approach to conflict.” Hamilton wants to see himself in the same light at times, when he writes in his book, “that’s the way the game was played, and I played it well.”

What kind of critique is Hamilton making? He doesn’t moralize about Armstrong. He doesn’t make the economic argument about Armstrong as equivalent to the billionaire, investment-banker scammer. He speaks truth to power. But it’s also a bleak and depressing book, which suggests that the idea of clean competition you praise at the end of your post was crowded out of professional (and amateur) cycling long ago.
 
serottasyclist said:
This is an oversimplification and thus, not really true. A person does have a right to control the use of his/her image for publicity purposes. So would depend on the context of the photo within the book. If he used a photo of Armstrong on the cover, I'd imagine Armstrong would have a pretty good case for suing in most states.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personality_rights

Exactly that (to the Wikipedia article). I found it noteworthy that the only other person depicted on the front cover is Armstrong himself. Given the contents of the book, I was surprised to see his image on the front cover. But then, David Walsh's book From Lance to Landis has a photo of Armstrong and Landis at the forefront of a peloton of cyclists. So there may be some sort of legal allowance for the use of images, because we know how friendly LA and David Walsh are. :)
 
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anesting said:
The Armstrong ethos as depicted by Hamilton and Coyle makes Armstrong out as this Hobbesian figure whose talent is in part an amoral ruthlessness that drives him to win in a “war of all against all.”

Indeed. I haven't read the book yet (I have a request in with the library and should have it in a few weeks), but its most shocking revelation (that I'm aware of) is Tyler's claim that Landis told him Lance alerted the UCI to Tyler's PED use. I mean, Wow! That's the equivalent of Tonya Harding kneecaping Nancy Kerrigan at the Lillihammer Olympics! If true, it blows the 'level playing field' argument right out of the water. Just loathsome.
 
Pazuzu said:
Indeed. I haven't read the book yet (I have a request in with the library and should have it in a few weeks), but its most shocking revelation (that I'm aware of) is Tyler's claim that Landis told him Lance alerted the UCI to Tyler's PED use. I mean, Wow! That's the equivalent of Tonya Harding kneecaping Nancy Kerrigan at the Lillihammer Olympics! If true, it blows the 'level playing field' argument right out of the water. Just loathsome.

Sportsmanship only exists in the Special Olympics, it seems.
 
I just finished reading the book. I could not put it down. I was appalled, just shook my head repeating in my mind, OMG.
The book is not about Lance at all though he is a major figure in it. The book is about Tyler Hamilton and professional cycling. Although I kinda knew what was going on in cycling it is even far worse.
What affected me was Tylers story. IT could be anyone. The hell he had gone through, and yes it was of his own making, but to come through it and his struggle to regain his life and sanity was what touched me. Maybe because I have had to go through much similar *** as him.
So hopefully cycling can clean itself up so riders don't have to face the choices he had and make bad decisions.
And Tyler is right about feeling bad for Lance. He is trapped in his own lies probably forever and will be a miserable POS. But Lance must be exposed for the terrible things he has done for cleansing to occur. His selfish actions perpetuated this mess.
 
Apr 21, 2009
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dopers

After finishing most of Tylers book, I'm starting to understand how the "guy next door" gets involved in doping. That does not make it right, but more understandable.
I used to be under the impression that Lance is a D I C K. This book confirms that impression as FACT.
 

LauraLyn

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serottasyclist said:
This is an oversimplification and thus, not really true. A person does have a right to control the use of his/her image for publicity purposes. So would depend on the context of the photo within the book. If he used a photo of Armstrong on the cover, I'd imagine Armstrong would have a pretty good case for suing in most states.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personality_rights

As I said, there are exceptions. And you are right, Lance's photo is on the cover and this could be construed as a publicity/sales stunt for the book. And it most certainly is. But this is not like putting a photo of Lance on the lid of a toilet seat to sell more toilet seats. The photo is also germane to the central thesis of the book and it reflects a very well known and general image of cycling.

Lance has many reasons to want to take Tyler to court on this book. The photo on the cover could be one of those. I wouldn't bet on him doing it. And I surely wouldn't bet on him winning.

[The photo is well chosen: It shows Tyler in one of his more important roles in his cycling past: as a domestic to Lance. It also shows him out ahead of Lance in the race, this time in the race for a good life.]
 

LauraLyn

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veganrob said:
I just finished reading the book. . . . What affected me was Tylers story. IT could be anyone. . . . And Tyler is right about feeling bad for Lance. He is trapped in his own lies probably forever and will be a miserable POS. But Lance must be exposed for the terrible things he has done for cleansing to occur. His selfish actions perpetuated this mess.

"It could be anyone [even me]." = The beginning of insight into evil.

I understand Tyler "feeling bad" for Lance. He has been there where Lance is now. He knows the damage. But I cannot sympathize with Tyler here. And certainly I cannot sympathize with Lance now. Unless and until Lance comes clean, and tells all as Tyler has done (and I am sure his all is much much bigger), I cannot sympathize with Lance in any way. His selfishness continues and it is damaging not only to himself but also to sports, to cancer victims, and to his family. No sympathy here. Not now.