Tyler's Book

[Berzin]

Grrrr - pre-ordered it last night, and now this UK libel laws are a disgrace.

Can anyone in the know fill in the blanks so I know what I'm missing?

BTW - long time lurker, first time poster - and it really is true! But only because the Clinic has become so unreadable without the ignore function, and you have to register to use it...

Ah, I see Polish is back.

What's the matter? Couldn't wait out your three-month ban so you had to sign on as someone else?

 

[Opalius]

why are you so set on working hard to make others accept your thoughts?

Possibly because Danes are about to swallow a bitter pill; namely that everything points towards Riis being responsible for (what can only be interpreted as as close to a planned teamwide doping program possible) leading a number of riders into the arms of Fuentes.

Riis is quite the man in Danish sport, and it will be a huge blow for many people when they discover he's not clean (even after having come clean).

Anyways, my personal stance is that most, if not all, of cycling is still dirty. I do however still enjoy the sport immensely (and as a Dane I'll continue to root for Riis and SBTB)

 

[JPM London]

Don't know to what degree this info from the book has surfaced and been reported elsewhere, but here's a link with some more detail:

Fuentes made millions on doping

"- Ufe (Fuentes ed.) Took an amount for the transfusion, an amount of medicación (EPO and testosterone) plus a set of Primate - bonuses, which I have to pay if I won a stage victory, a big stage race or a big race. Primas was not small: 50,000 euros for winning the Tour de France, 30,000 if I got on the podium; 30,000 if I won the Giro d'Italia, 20,000 to get on the podium and 30,000 to win a World Cup race, writes Tyler Hamilton in the book."

"Tyler Hamilton describes, among other things, how Fuentes explains that he has great experience with dope football players from the Spanish top clubs. Tyler Hamilton describes that he had to hold back on doping, because Fuentes had always new opportunities.
Among other claims Tyler Hamilton that he knows a meeting with Eufemiano Fuentes in Gran Canaria turned down a new form of Russian pill with testosterone, as Fuentes explained could not be traced. When Hamilton declined in Fuentes' car, chose the doctor to swallow the pill to prove how harmless he believed the substance was."

 

[Semper Fidelis]

You're forgetting Daniel Coyle. Very respected journalist, did some 200 hours of interviews with Hamilton, then cross referenced with other cyclists who witnessed the same thing.

Not really more than a above average fish hack writting for the local daily fish wrap.

 

[AcademyCC]

But just because little Tyler writes a book, dosen´t mean I have to eat it raw, and believe anything in it, it´s an opinion, this is a public forum and you obviously have no idea what that means.
Better luck next time.

Fidolix - the scary thing is that Tyler probably doesn't include everything he knows. It's probably just the tip of the ice berg about what he's seen and heard first hand.

For example - he couldn't say 'you want to hear the story someone told me about about the ONCE team at 2001 Tour...... ' of course knowing cycling it would more than likely be true. To be honest he's just going to be filling in a few blanks and confirming some theories for most in the clinic.

For me it's not about deciding whether its true or not, I know its true. Its about seeing the extent to which he has told the truth.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Ah, I see Polish is back.

What's the matter? Couldn't wait out your three-month ban so you had to sign on as someone else?

It was the book that has caused "Ride to forget" to come out and chime in.

They tell us so in the post.

"BTW - long time lurker, first time poster - and it really is true! But only because the Clinic has become so unreadable without the ignore function, and you have to register to use it..."

 

[jyhjyh]

"- Ufe (Fuentes ed.) Took an amount for the transfusion, an amount of medicación (EPO and testosterone) plus a set of Primate - bonuses, which I have to pay if I won a stage victory, a big stage race or a big race. Primas was not small: 50,000 euros for winning the Tour de France, 30,000 if I got on the podium; 30,000 if I won the Giro d'Italia, 20,000 to get on the podium and 30,000 to win a World Cup race, writes Tyler Hamilton in the book."

The good old trick. Throw some figures on the table and people think the story is credible

"Tyler Hamilton describes that he had to hold back on doping, because Fuentes had always new opportunities."

LOL - A hardcore-doper caught 3 times had to hold back on doping

Maybe Tylers's twin needs money

 

[LauraLyn]

If there is a sad part the sordid tale it will be the part where USA Cycling coaches, TW and others get away with encouraging Tyler, Lance, George and others to seek the means to "be more professional". They all bought into the philosophy young and the coaches and hangers-on went along for the ride.

It is already being institutionalized in the youth: USA Cycling has the "Lance Armstrong Junior Race Series." This is like asking a junkie and drug dealer to coach at your local high school.

 

[LauraLyn]

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

Could anyone smuggle a proper copy into the country, please?

And why on earth do they call it a Lance Armstrong book? I thought it was about Tyler Hamilton

EDIT:
Ah, after reading the article it seems changes will just be of the usual "Lance Armstrong has always denied all doping allegations against him" type... There's probably going to be a few extra "alleged" in there as well...

I never could figure the libel laws in the UK when sitting on the London Underground reading the tabloid press - and there is little press in the UK that is not "tabloid."

 

[LauraLyn]

"Hein, Lance and Doping . . . "
http://www.extrasport.be/hein-lance-en-doping/

An interesting article in the Belgian press I came across today. Looks like an overview of questions about doping in the UCI and really takes Verbruggen to task over his role in the UCI, primarily since 2000.

Good conclusion: "Cycling needs to look at its past in the eyes and learn from it. Hopefully it will do that and come out stronger."

It could be good to have a thread dedicated to the UCI or the role of the cycling organizations more generally in doping.

 

[JPM London]

It is already being institutionalized in the youth: USA Cycling has the "Lance Armstrong Junior Race Series." This is like asking a junkie and drug dealer to coach at your local high school.

Wouldn't happen to be sponsored by AmGen, would it

 

[LauraLyn]

Wouldn't happen to be sponsored by AmGen, would it

I don't see Amgen as a sponsor.

It is part of the USA Cycling Foundation, which is an NGO created by Weisel (I believe) to support USA Cycling. Interestingly USA Cycling partners with the USOC.

There will need to be some house cleaning.

 

[JPM London]

I don't see Amgen as a sponsor.

It is part of the USA Cycling Foundation, which is an NGO created by Weisel (I believe) to support USA Cycling. Interestingly USA Cycling partners with the USOC.

There will need to be some house cleaning.

Thanks for the answer - it wasn't a real question though. Just a joke on Amgen being epo-producers. Then they'd have a full house...

 

[thehog]

Former Armstrong teammate Tyler Hamilton writes about it in his new tell-all book, “The Secret Race,” while recounting his decision to testify about Armstrong’s doping before a Los Angeles grand jury, a case that was inexplicably dropped last February. Hamilton says as his day before the grand jury neared, his attorney received “a series of urgent calls from Lance’s lawyers who were offering their services for free.”

“For six years he gives me zero support,” Hamilton continues. “Now, when things get tough, he wants us on the same team again. No thanks.”

 

[LauraLyn]

Thanks for the answer - it wasn't a real question though. Just a joke on Amgen being epo-producers. Then they'd have a full house...

But then you seem to assume that Amgen (and possibly other pharmaceutical companies) are (illegally) involved in doping.

That doesn't make any sense at all.

 

[Benotti69]

Former Armstrong teammate Tyler Hamilton writes about it in his new tell-all book, “The Secret Race,” while recounting his decision to testify about Armstrong’s doping before a Los Angeles grand jury, a case that was inexplicably dropped last February. Hamilton says as his day before the grand jury neared, his attorney received “a series of urgent calls from Lance’s lawyers who were offering their services for free.”

“For six years he gives me zero support,” Hamilton continues. “Now, when things get tough, he wants us on the same team again. No thanks.”

HAHAHAHAHAHA!

Man are they desperate. Excellent. Far too many leaks in the levy now for this to be held back.

I would have loved to hear Tyler ring Lance and ask, "what you offering dude?" and then say "Nah, I prefer the truth, catch ya later in CacheCache maybe"

Bet Wonderboy dont sleep so good.

I bet his peeps are preparing their CVs too. But it aint goona look good saying you worked for LieStrong, dont ya think?

 

[Mongol_Waaijer]

The good old trick. Throw some figures on the table and people think the story is credible

LOL - A hardcore-doper caught 3 times had to hold back on doping

what, like claiming to have passed 500 tests?

The most hardcore doper of all never had to hold back.

 

[JPM London]

Former Armstrong teammate Tyler Hamilton writes about it in his new tell-all book, “The Secret Race,” while recounting his decision to testify about Armstrong’s doping before a Los Angeles grand jury, a case that was inexplicably dropped last February. Hamilton says as his day before the grand jury neared, his attorney received “a series of urgent calls from Lance’s lawyers who were offering their services for free.”

“For six years he gives me zero support,” Hamilton continues. “Now, when things get tough, he wants us on the same team again. No thanks.”

Great bit - thanks Hog! But as usual with you... Link?

But then you seem to assume that Amgen (and possibly other pharmaceutical companies) are (illegally) involved in doping.

That doesn't make any sense at all.

Not really, no, I am merely playing on a standing joke in the clinic - that Amgen sponsors the Tour of California. But never mind - I think your "serious-hat" is wedged firmly on so just ignore me

But what doesn't make sense at all - while on the subject - is to infer the opposite (of what you inferred from my comment): That no pharm co's dabble in providing doping - willingly and knowingly.

 

[JPM London]

what, like claiming to have passed 500 tests?

The most hardcore doper of all never had to hold back.

Don't worry about it - I don't think jyhjyh would be satisfied even if you had a picture of Riis marrying Tyler and Fuentes in Vegas and a "just doped" sign hanging off Tyler's back... There's always reasonable doubt if you look hard enough for it.

 

[thehog]

Great bit - thanks Hog! But as usual with you... Link?




Not really, no, I am merely playing on a standing joke in the clinic - that Amgen sponsors the Tour of California. But never mind - I think your "serious-hat" is wedged firmly on so just ignore me

But what doesn't make sense at all - while on the subject - is to infer the opposite (of what you inferred from my comment): That no pharm co's dabble in providing doping - willingly and knowingly.

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2012/sep/04/tp-the-curious-intersection-of-lance-and-landis/

 

[LauraLyn]

. . . .
But what doesn't make sense at all - while on the subject - is to infer the opposite (of what you inferred from my comment): That no pharm co's dabble in providing doping - willingly and knowingly.

Makes no sense.

Why would they?

 

[jyhjyh]

Don't worry about it - I don't think jyhjyh would be satisfied even if you had a picture of Riis marrying Tyler and Fuentes in Vegas and a "just doped" sign hanging off Tyler's back... There's always reasonable doubt if you look hard enough for it.

You are wrong JPM.
I think that Hamilton, Armstrong and Riis all lie.

What I don't think, is that every word that Hamilton writes is the truth.
And what does he not write about and why?

Everybody who has been or is involved in doping lies or hides facts about it.

 

[Maxiton]

But then you seem to assume that Amgen (and possibly other pharmaceutical companies) are (illegally) involved in doping.

That doesn't make any sense at all.

It makes no sense if Lance is a merely a lone Texan hero in a minor sport, and his team, US Postal, a minor affair. It makes no sense if Amgen and other pharmaceutical companies are completely incorruptible and beyond reproach.

If LA and his team are seen as a projection of national soft power; and especially if they are connected, even tangentially, to the military-industrial machine: then arrangements can be made. There's no particular reason to believe such arrangements were made, but it's not outside the realm of possibility.

 

[MacRoadie]

Grrrr - pre-ordered it last night, and now this UK libel laws are a disgrace.

Can anyone in the know fill in the blanks so I know what I'm missing?



BTW - long time lurker, first time poster - and it really is true! But only because the Clinic has become so unreadable without the ignore function, and you have to register to use it...

Grrrr...why does that sound so familiar?

 

[LauraLyn]

It makes no sense if Lance is a merely a lone Texan hero in a minor sport, and his team, US Postal, a minor affair. It makes no sense if Amgen and other pharmaceutical companies are completely incorruptible and beyond reproach.

If LA and his team are seen as a projection of national soft power; and especially if they are connected, even tangentially, to the military-industrial machine: then arrangements can be made. There's no particular reason to believe such arrangements were made, but it's not outside the realm of possibility.

Why would a pharmaceutical company knowingly give their product illegally to an athlete?

I just cannot think of one possible reason.

[I am not saying that large companies are not susceptible to corruption. But I cannot see them corrupting themselves for no benefit whatsoever.]

[If Lance was such an important part of the "national soft power", USADA would be out of business today and Lance would be going to Kailua-Kona in October. As I said before today, you understand Lance's psychology far better than me, but I don't think he is such a big deal. He isn't the disease. He's just a symptom.]