Tyler's Book

Page 37 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
Scott SoCal said:
Did you see the ESPN interview with Bob Ley? He asked him directly about Tyler's suspicion on Lance having him investigated privately and possibly spying on him... Tyler was very, very uncomfortable with that and essentially refused to go there.

So yeah, he's telling the story. Just not the whole story.

You obviously didn't listen or read the premise of the book.

They only included what could be verified. The cutting room floor has several more stories that were left out because they couldn't be corroborated.

In regards to being followed by PI's etc. what more could he say? He stated what he saw and the strange behaviour of his email system but couldn't verify if it was Armstrong. How could he? What more could he say? That is the whole story.
 
PosterBill said:
The book had a color on Frank Schleck...he should outed more often. Schleck's a golden boy in many eyes when that should clearly not be the case. It makes his positive at the tour all the more telling

i'm sorry, but anyone, anyone, who thought (or -- god forbid -- thinks) that either schleck is clean, is quite frankly an idiot.
 
Aug 7, 2010
1,247
0
0
AcademyCC said:
Ideally your point would be correct. However I think you forget who we are dealing with here. His Lawyers are part of 'The country club' they've always known the score.

Sponsors, business partners and fanboys are also in this bracket. They all have a lot invested in Lance.

I am not so sure that a high profile lawyer or PR guy wants to be known as an "LA" zombie......the facts are coming to light and these guys will want to start putting distance between themselves and LA.

The same applies to sponsors. They have all had a game plan for this eventuality and will be gently replacing his position with a newer fresher face more relevant, all the while publicly 'supporting' LA.

Notice how Tiger Woods has gradually disappeared (relative to his original visibility) from Nike, Buick, Amex, and a watch brand, either TAG or Rolex. He was everywhere, and right now the darling is Rory O'Reilly....slid right in perfectly.

Time will tell, but methinks once the lawyers and PR people have a read of the book, they will still smile and fight the fight, but whatever illusions they may have had about who they were protecting from an 'unfair process' will be gone forever.
 
Aug 2, 2010
217
0
0
My two cents: Stunning book. Coyle is the equal of Michael Lewis as a keen observer and insightful writer. I'd always thought so, but this book confirms it.

Armstrong is treated fairly. There is a surprising amount of sympathy for him and the choices he faced. The usual "hater" charges will be thrown at this book by the cult, but they won't stick.

Thom Weisel comes off worse.
 
Jul 10, 2009
918
0
0
Interesting that the book talks about the "excessive display by Festina tend to occur when a new doping innovation appears". Reminds me of Sky at 2012 TDF. The peloton is not stupid, they all know what is "normal" and what isn't "normal". And clearly the generally feeling was that Sky had something new. Then he says that the peloton/teams reacted after the festina display and matched it. Kind of reminds of how Sky has been nullified at the the Vuelta. Also kind of reminds me of how Gilbert has been nullified this season. I am not buying "teams are conspiring to frustrate me" or "I had a medical issue". You can only catch the Peloton napping for one major event or one season. Then they will nix you, unless you are a true talent.
 
Page Mill Masochist said:
My two cents: Stunning book. Coyle is the equal of Michael Lewis as a keen observer and insightful writer. I'd always thought so, but this book confirms it.

Armstrong is treated fairly. There is a surprising amount of sympathy for him and the choices he faced. The usual "hater" charges will be thrown at this book by the cult, but they won't stick.

Thom Weisel comes off worse.

I would agree Hamilton has a lot of empathy for Armstrong's situation. He evens mentions the more he kept winning the bigger the lie became and Armstrong was trapped. No way out of the lie.
 
jilbiker said:
Interesting that the book talks about the "excessive display by Festina tend to occur when a new doping innovation appears". Reminds me of Sky at 2012 TDF. The peloton is not stupid, they all know what is "normal" and what isn't "normal". And clearly the generally feeling was that Sky had something new. Then he says that the peloton/teams reacted after the festina display and matched it. Kind of reminds of how Sky has been nullified at the the Vuelta. Also kind of reminds me of how Gilbert has been nullified this season. I am not buying "teams are conspiring to frustrate me" or "I had a medical issue". You can only catch the Peloton napping for one major event or one season. Then they will nix you, unless you are a true talent.

Yes I did like the "not normal" quotes from Armstrong. Hamilton does elude that Armstrong was doing more than transfusions and micro dosing. He mentions that Armstrong from somewhere at Tour time finds 3-5% more than he had from a few days before. Smashing Beloki in 2002 was good evidence of this.
 
Jul 23, 2010
270
0
0
Scott SoCal said:
Did you see the ESPN interview with Bob Ley? He asked him directly about Tyler's suspicion on Lance having him investigated privately and possibly spying on him... Tyler was very, very uncomfortable with that and essentially refused to go there.

So yeah, he's telling the story. Just not the whole story.

I got the impression from that part of the book, as well as the footnotes concerning what Novitzky had to say about possible surveillance that might have been done by PI's hired by Lance's defense team, that Tyler/Coyle (at least in the book) are pretty much telling and describing all that they really knew. Tyler describes how he and his girlfriend/wife began to experience strange popping and clicking noises on their phones, how they began to experience weird popups on their computers (some of which were to sites dealing with LA or his foundation), how they would spot two guys often sitting in strange cars outside their apartment, how text messages they would send either didn't get through to the intended recipient or would mysteriously be sent two times instead of once.

Based on what's in the book, I don't know really what to make about Tyler not wanting to talk about that sort of stuff during an interview, other than this: while he may have had suspicions about who or what was behind this sort of stuff, he really can't confirm it, and therefore other than saying he noticed a bunch of odd things happening, and Novitsky telling him that it might have been the work of PI's hired by Lance's defense team during the federal criminal investigation, he really can't either confirm or prove such an allegation. He also admits in the book that some of what he felt and observed about this made him also question whether it was really taking place or whether he was just being paranoid. I just think it's an area that perhaps he wouldn't feel comfortable talking about during an interview because....well, it's an uncomfortable subject matter with an uncertain origin and he probably doesn't want to look like he's overly paranoid.

But as someone once said to me, "Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean you're not being followed." Who knows though. If this was all due to some overly-aggressive investigative techniques being used by some PI hired by the defense team, then they evidently learned nothing from the Anthony Pellicano prosecution. Surveillance techniques like wiretapping of phones, and interception of wireless communications is, at least in most states, illegal. At least it's illegal in California. I have no idea though about Massachusetts or Colorado, where Tyler says this stuff occurred.

Novitsky seemed a lot less bothered by that stuff than he was by the Boulder Cache Cache restaurant intimidation issue, which I found somehwhat interesting. I would have thought that the Feds would be equally interested in illegal wiretapping, theft of mail and other illegal surveillance. This also raises the possibility that the Feds were doing some surveillance of their own of key witnesses such as Tyler, just to see who was contacting him or what he might be saying to others that could lead to further evidence. And if Tyler was told later that there were federal wiretaps, I'm guessing that he would also want to avoid discussing that subject as well. Again, this is speculation, and I'm not suggesting that it was anything other than what the book describes, and that all signs pointed to LA's defense team.

ETA: I see that The Hog also responded to this, and concludes, as I do, that there really wasn't much more for Tyler to say about this sort of thing. What can he say about what really can't be confirmed?
 
Jul 13, 2012
8
0
0
thehog said:
I would agree Hamilton has a lot of empathy for Armstrong's situation. He evens mentions the more he kept winning the bigger the lie became and Armstrong was trapped. No way out of the lie.

I also really respect him for showing some parallels in his own behaviour as developed a need for success over and above his admittedly competitive nature. That part of the narrative may wobble a bit in terms of consistency, but it's a fundamental part of his ability to convincingly relate to Armstrong. It also helps that it's not just Armstrong that he portrays this way. He's quite good at conveying what it might have been like to be in someone else's shoes.
 
thehog said:
I would agree Hamilton has a lot of empathy for Armstrong's situation. He evens mentions the more he kept winning the bigger the lie became and Armstrong was trapped. No way out of the lie.

I have some sympathy for Armstrong. He's not just an ordinary cycling competitor, he's "Lance the Legend"! So, it's that much harder for him to come clean. He dug himself in deep with this huge layered lie that only got worse over the years. I think Lance, even with his huge ego, must feel the guilt.
 
Bosco10 said:
I have some sympathy for Armstrong. He's not just an ordinary cycling competitor, he's "Lance the Legend"! So, it's that much harder for him to come clean. He dug himself in deep with this huge layered lie that only got worse over the years. I think Lance, even with his huge ego, must feel the guilt.
he didn't start out a legend, other than in his own mind... read the book: no guilt, no remorse.

not then, not now.
 
Remarks from Hamilton prior to the book's release had me worried that it would be more of a vague story about his depression. That assumption was way off, details are plentiful. These guys would definitely be opening themselves up to lawsuits on many fronts if they were making this stuff up.

Interesting how threatened Armstrong would get when teammates performances started getting too good, like in '01 when Hamilton set the fastest time up their training ground climb. Later in the Tour he wasn't provided with blood transfusions like others and his performance suffered immensely. He was then humiliated and removed from the 'inner circle' by LA & Bruyneel. I remember reading a similar story about Floyd in "Armstrong's War." It's simply amazing how doping products, or lack thereof, can make a rider go from hero to zero and vice versa.

The book is yet another confirmation of what a farce the sport has been at the top level.
 
Fatclimber said:
Remarks from Hamilton prior to the book's release had me worried that it would be more of a vague story about his depression. That assumption was way off, details are plentiful. These guys would definitely be opening themselves up to lawsuits on many fronts if they were making this stuff up.

Interesting how threatened Armstrong would get when teammates performances started getting too good, like in '01 when Hamilton set the fastest time up their training ground climb. Later in the Tour he wasn't provided with blood transfusions like others and his performance suffered immensely. He was then humiliated and removed from the 'inner circle' by LA & Bruyneel. I remember reading a similar story about Floyd in "Armstrong's War." It's simply amazing how doping products, or lack thereof, can make a rider go from hero to zero and vice versa.

The book is yet another confirmation of what a farce the sport has been at the top level.

I like the story when Tyler won on Ventoux at the Dauphine. Lance and Tyler are back in the bus and Lance is giving Tyler the silent treatment.

Bruyneel bounds into the bus from the teamcar and gives Lance a hug and says "Don't worry Lance, there's still 3 weeks to the Tour, you'll get them there"

Bruyneel then follows up with "So who won the stage?"

Tyler says "I did!"

Followed by awkward silence.
 
thehog said:
I like the story when Tyler won on Ventoux at the Dauphine. Lance and Tyler are back in the bus and Lance is giving Tyler the silent treatment.

Bruyneel bounds into the bus from the teamcar and gives Lance a hug and says "Don't worry Lance, there's still 3 weeks to the Tour, you'll get them there"

Bruyneel then follows up with "So who won the stage?"

Tyler says "I did!"

Followed by awkward silence.

:D

Dave.
 
Jul 7, 2009
583
0
0
I think I'd be happy that my team mate won the stage.
The awkward silence after Tyler says he won, very sad.
That had to be uncomfortable, to put it mildly.
 
ITS HERE :D

352e11def91b11e19ca422000a1cf71a_7.jpg
 
I just finalized reading it....WOW

FOA I love the way the book was written: As Coyle expressed from the Prologue (The story behind this book) all the information was acquired by hours of recorded interviews--The book to me seemed like the Author "literally transcribed the interviews with the minimum editing"-it was almost like picturing Tyler speaking in the background-the mannerisms, the language, the quotes-it all seems his mind, thoughts & memories poured in ink-and that's exactly the aspect that I like the most.:)
Apart from the "already known details" of LA's reign-I was really laughing while reading the Fuentes (Ufe) Chapters and the cynicism yet parody around his persona. As many folks noted-there are abundant details for the USPS years, while the CSC & Phonak ones where boarded rather too generic for my expectations, but I guess there was the "confirmation aspect" that might have played a part in getting the full disclosure out.

Above all- I'm really impressed with the human aspect of the entire story- the fact that Tyler has yet room in his heart & mind for compassion & sorrow towards LA after all the sh!t he took from him-I mean-I have to bow down to that level of humility & yet relief that he has achieved in order to do such thing-but at the same time is the confirmation that he's truly released from those chains from his turbulent past..... good for him.
 
Anyone going to dispute it?

Any one heard anything from Frankie, JV, Floyd and anyone else that disputes anything in the book?

Now that guys are starting to talk, I'd love hear some of the other guys that have confessed dispute or corroborate this book.
 
TheMight said:
Any one heard anything from Frankie, JV, Floyd and anyone else that disputes anything in the book?

Now that guys are starting to talk, I'd love hear some of the other guys that have confessed dispute or corroborate this book.

There's a photo on twitter with Frankie reading the book shrieking in horror!

He's joking so I don't think anyone minds. They were all interviewed for the book.

Landis in the book comes across as a seriously cool dude but with a heart. He looked out for people. Probably to his own detriment by the hands of Lance.
 
Jun 26, 2009
45
0
0
Yeah, great book: read it in one sitting. Amazing, not only how much stuff from that we've all read about in this, and prior forums over the years, were verified, but also the whole new set of revelations. What comes across most cleary is how pathologically controlling and vengeful Lance is: obviously that's been the background theme all these years, but have it drawn in such stark relief is pretty amazing (and distressing ). Come away with the stong feeling that Lance doesn't give up, no matter what the odds or ramifications....Things are going to blow uo real good now....
 
thehog said:
There's a photo on twitter with Frankie reading the book shrieking in horror!

He's joking so I don't think anyone minds. They were all interviewed for the book.

Landis in the book comes across as a seriously cool dude but with a heart. He looked out for people. Probably to his own detriment by the hands of Lance.

Yeah, there is a lot of 3rd party stuff in the book. It sounds like the truth as I've pieced together bits and pieces over the years. A glowing "yeah, it's pretty much how it happened" or a pi***d off "it's all lies" would temper it though.

I was riveted by Willy Voet's book and several others that exposed pieces of the truth and other cyclists generally panned them.
 
Sep 10, 2009
5,663
0
0
TheMight said:
Any one heard anything from Frankie, JV, Floyd and anyone else that disputes anything in the book?

Now that guys are starting to talk, I'd love hear some of the other guys that have confessed dispute or corroborate this book.
Read an article somewhere earlier today where Landis corroborated Hamilton's story about Landis telling Hamilton that Armstrong called the UCI on him after Ventoux. Can't find the article though so you'll have to take my word for it. :)
 
May 27, 2012
6,458
0
0
QuickStepper said:
C'mon.... the UCI did theses tests, and the UCI was going to be doing "results management", and the tests were done in Europe, in Switzerland, not the US. So what role would USADA have in this? Tyler went to Switzerland to fight with the UCI's lab analysis of not only his Vuelta B sample but also a sample from the Athens Olympics that also showed a positive. Any appeal of the UCI's findings would have been before CAS, not USADA, right? The bolded line just seems like such a throwaway, so gratuitous, and so calculated to plant in the mind of the reader the false notion that USADA has jurisdiction over all doping charges, no matter where they arise or who does the initial testing. And that's just not the case under the WADA Code or the UCI's ADR.

I'm guessing this is coming from Coyle and not Hamilton. I find it just as bad as the silly PR stuff Armstrong's people engage in; this is just a lot more subtle, but still just as wrong IMHO.

Hey Mr. "Too Expensive for Armstrong yet is so ignorant of SMJ that you made mistakes a 1L wouldn't," you might want to do some research into the subject...I see a couple have answered your ridiculous assertion.
 
May 27, 2012
6,458
0
0
the big ring said:
Sigh.

UCI hand over positive tests to the rider's anti-doping body. That's all he's saying. It costs money and lawyers to prosecute a rider, there's no way UCI ever do that.

You know. Like Contador got done for Clenbuterol, by the UCI, then the Spanish federation had to deal with it. And had said he was guilty, but then changed their minds. THEN Contador appealed to CAS.

Can't believe a 30 year lawyer can get this stuff so easily wrong. Man alive. Are you related to Krebs Cycle by any chance?

I kept thinking of his ridiculous assertions the whole time I was reading the book.

Funny, we get a person who is supposedly a scientist making claims nobody else seems to, and then a lawyer who is too expensive for Lance, but gets simple **** completely wrong. Hmm....I think you pegged it.
 
May 27, 2012
6,458
0
0
QuickStepper said:
Yeah, and up your's too. It's was an honest observation because the passages in the book are not clear about the charges that were actually levied against Tyler, i.e., whether he was appealing the positive from the TdF or from the Olympics, or both. Reading the entire passage from the rest of the chapter though clarified it somewhat for me.

Oh, and thanks for the gratuitous info re: AC....but I don't remember mentioning him, and this isn't about the proceedings that were brought against him.

But gee, thanks for straightening me out. You're a real friend to all....kind, courteous, polite. You and Benotti, quite a pair.

No, no it wasn't. It was a planted statement by someone who refuses to reveal what is patently obvious to anyone who has read your posts.