UCI corruption

[BotanyBay]

Geez, devalue the Tour in 2006...

Hmm... I wonder if an appetizer of Puerto with a main course of Skewered Landis Loin would serve as a proper menu to drive down value?

 

[Colm.Murphy]

It certainly adds a sliver to the previously implausible theory that Landis was sabotaged.

Landis continues to claim he had not used Test during the 06 TdF. His values were a jagged mess, Landis even comments about it during the Kimmage interview, that the results contradicted known human physiological reactions to Test.

I'm not much for the tin foil hat crowd myself, but given the reaches of the UCI, Lance and his henchmen (Ochowicz worked for Phonak/Rhyse at that time, this I know), I can more openly consider this knowing that Verbruggen and Lance were attempting to crash the value of ASO. Perhaps there is something to this?

 

[dbrower]

They hijacked the testing at the 2010 TDF in retaliation. And WADA never said a peep about it. Proving that WADA is not immune from politics.

+1.

As someone observed about JV, while he's in a position of influence, he's also in a position to be influenced. Same with WADA, which doesn't really have the power it would like to have, and is really beholden to the IOC, whose main goal is to make the Olympics appear to be clean enough for the commercial interests.

There's no shortage of conflicting agendas.

-dB

 

[Benotti69]

You can implicate all professional sports in this, particularly through the dark alley of the late 80's through the early 2000's. The problem is much larger than just the UCI and more complex than the rationalization that they are receiving payments to keep quiet.

I do on all the other sporting forums but for now here we are talking about the uci

 

[BotanyBay]

+1.

As someone observed about JV, while he's in a position of influence, he's also in a position to be influenced. Same with WADA, which doesn't really have the power it would like to have, and is really beholden to the IOC, whose main goal is to make the Olympics appear to be clean enough for the commercial interests.

There's no shortage of conflicting agendas.

-dB

 

[sniper]

It certainly adds a sliver to the previously implausible theory that Landis was sabotaged.

Landis continues to claim he had not used Test during the 06 TdF. His values were a jagged mess, Landis even comments about it during the Kimmage interview, that the results contradicted known human physiological reactions to Test.

I'm not much for the tin foil hat crowd myself, but given the reaches of the UCI, Lance and his henchmen (Ochowicz worked for Phonak/Rhyse at that time, this I know), I can more openly consider this knowing that Verbruggen and Lance were attempting to crash the value of ASO. Perhaps there is something to this?

Talkin bout blockrockingblockbusters. I think this is one.
I'm one of those who believes most of what Flandis said in the interview (regardless of whether Boogerd's bruise was from drawing blood or from injecting it).
He tells how he became a fanatic, digging into details about doping, becoming an expert. My guess is he knows what he's talking about regarding the TESTosteron. Whether it can be proven or not, Landis honestly believes he was set up.
The angle of Verbruggen+Lance bringing down the value of the tour by letting prominent riders test positive is quite interesting.

 

[BotanyBay]

It certainly adds a sliver to the previously implausible theory that Landis was sabotaged.

If you were a guy with the morals of a Lance Armstrong or a Hein Verbruggen, and you came across a country-bumpkin, politically naive guy like Floyd Landis, and if throwing him under the bus would help allow you to OWN the TDF, what would you do?

 

[BotanyBay]

Talkin bout blockrockingblockbusters. I think this is one.

I read a lot of books about the intelligence community. Rarely do they (in the profession) find the smoking gun in the murderer's hand, sitting next to the corpse.

They collect facts. They analyze these facts. They create theories and scenarios that make sense. Then they try and find the evidence that would make the theory true.

As tin-foil-hat outrageous as this might sound, we've seen the cyclists do some insane things to skirt the testers and the rules. Perhaps we need to allow ourselves to think that people can indeed be this twisted and corrupt.

 

[Darryl Webster]

It certainly adds a sliver to the previously implausible theory that Landis was sabotaged.

Landis continues to claim he had not used Test during the 06 TdF. His values were a jagged mess, Landis even comments about it during the Kimmage interview, that the results contradicted known human physiological reactions to Test.

I'm not much for the tin foil hat crowd myself, but given the reaches of the UCI, Lance and his henchmen (Ochowicz worked for Phonak/Rhyse at that time, this I know), I can more openly consider this knowing that Verbruggen and Lance were attempting to crash the value of ASO. Perhaps there is something to this?

I`m of the same opinion. As I`v always understood it Landis knew testosterone wasnt in his sample and hoped he could prove that. That was the charge. He wasnt about to go , " ner..i didnt use testostrone but I did use this stuff" was he?
If he could show he couldnt have been possitive for testosterone he`d be in the clear. He couldn`t but his comments about the values put forward being physiologicly implausable pricked my ears up because there are people here with the understanding to know if thats true. Is it?
The whole TDF/ UCI/ Armstrong/ picture emerging looks tottaly plausable from were im siting ..and thats from a position of mainly information on the net and my personal ( though 20 years ago) of how the sport is and the kinda personalities involved.
If peeps here can see those links with a degree of clarity based not on gossip but veriafiable snipits and most important , the time line, then imagine what the FDA could be putting together !

 

[BotanyBay]

I`m of the same opinion. As I`v always understood it Landis knew testosterone wasnt in his sample and hoped he could prove that. That was the charge. He wasnt about to go , " ner..i didnt use testostrone but I did use this stuff" was he?
If he could show he couldnt have been possitive for testosterone he`d be in the clear. He couldn`t but his comments about the values put forward being physiologicly implausable pricked my ears up because there are people here with the understanding to know if thats true. Is it?
The whole TDF/ UCI/ Armstrong/ picture emerging looks tottaly plausable from were im siting ..and thats from a position of mainly information on the net and my personal ( though 20 years ago) of how the sport is and the kinda personalities involved.
If peeps here can see those links with a degree of clarity based not on gossip but veriafiable snipits and most important , the time line, then imagine what the FDA could be putting together !

Let's get to work. I'll bring the nachos!

 

[Colm.Murphy]

I read a lot of books about the intelligence community. Rarely do they (in the profession) find the smoking gun in the murderer's hand, sitting next to the corpse.

They collect facts. They analyze these facts. They create theories and scenarios that make sense. Then they try and find the evidence that would make the theory true.

As tin-foil-hat outrageous as this might sound, we've seen the cyclists do some insane things to skirt the testers and the rules. Perhaps we need to allow ourselves to think that people can indeed be this twisted and corrupt.

The more I ponder a guy like Ochowicz, view all of his overlapping interests with Lance in the center, it cannot be ruled out.

The name Freddy Viane keeps coming up, as I think back to Lance's books, Freddy the soigneur. The guy who's hands work over the tired muscles of the team. He worked for Floyd in 2006 on Phonak. He still works for Ochowicz on BMC.

Ochowicz was there working for Phonak in 05/06, still tied very tightly to Lance and Wiesel. Viane was there, had constant access to Floyd.

Crazier things have happened.

 

[BotanyBay]

The more I ponder a guy like Ochowicz, view all of his overlapping interests with Lance in the center, it cannot be ruled out.

The name Freddy Viane keeps coming up, as I think back to Lance's books, Freddy the soigneur. The guy who's hands work over the tired muscles of the team. He worked for Floyd in 2006 on Phonak. He still works for Ochowicz on BMC.

Ochowicz was there working for Phonak in 05/06, still tied very tightly to Lance and Wiesel. Viane was there, had constant access to Floyd.

Crazier things have happened.

You ever have one of those "this is probably true" feelings that also makes your gut literally sink?

I actually think this (in and of itself) is worthy of a discussion topic. I'd really like to dedicate one for the purposes of exploring this possibility. It would take time and some hard thinking and research. But you know me, the tinfoil hat guy that starts threads that are immediately shut down. Any volunteers?

 

[Colm.Murphy]

You ever have one of those "this is probably true" feelings that also makes your gut literally sink?

Christ, it does kind of pit your stomach, eh?

 

[BotanyBay]

Christ, it does kind of pit your stomach, eh?

Dude, we need to talk to Floyd.

 

[Colm.Murphy]

Dude, we need to talk to Floyd.

Sure. Go for it.

More thinking on this, the UCI collects the sample and turns it over to the AFLD. They have their little mitts on it for a portion of time, so maybe it is their opportunity to spike the sample sometime from arriving with the kits and handing it off to the lab.

 

[BotanyBay]

Sure. Go for it.

More thinking on this, the UCI collects the sample and turns it over to the AFLD. They have their little mitts on it for a portion of time, so maybe it is their opportunity to spike the sample sometime from arriving with the kits and handing it off to the lab.

Outreach has been made. We'll see what comes of it.

 

[Deagol]

UCI corruption ?

Pat has said that the UCI was never corruptand he is bored with FL's allegations. What more do you want ??

 

[sniper]

Sure. Go for it.

More thinking on this, the UCI collects the sample and turns it over to the AFLD. They have their little mitts on it for a portion of time, so maybe it is their opportunity to spike the sample sometime from arriving with the kits and handing it off to the lab.

@ Murphy and BB: wouldn't if have been much easier for Verbruggen/Armstrong to bribe a doping official?

 

[BotanyBay]

@ Murphy and BB: wouldn't if have been much easier for Verbruggen/Armstrong to bribe a doping official?

OR, why do you think Floyd needed to break into the lab's files? He may have wanted to see if the "original" test result might have been sitting on their network.

Didn't that Austrian guy recently admit to directly bribing lab testers?

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

Geez, devalue the Tour in 2006...

Hmm... I wonder if an appetizer of Puerto with a main course of Skewered Landis Loin would serve as a proper menu to drive down value?

Those were my sentiments, exactly... Quite a world, eh?

 

[Supportcycling]

Is McQuaid the right guy for the job! I don think he is..

 

[BotanyBay]

The more I ponder a guy like Ochowicz, view all of his overlapping interests with Lance in the center, it cannot be ruled out.

The name Freddy Viane keeps coming up, as I think back to Lance's books, Freddy the soigneur. The guy who's hands work over the tired muscles of the team. He worked for Floyd in 2006 on Phonak. He still works for Ochowicz on BMC.

Ochowicz was there working for Phonak in 05/06, still tied very tightly to Lance and Wiesel. Viane was there, had constant access to Floyd.

Crazier things have happened.

We wouldn't want to confuse this container with the Ruud Baker soigneurs cream!

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

We wouldn't want to confuse this container with the Ruud Baker soigneurs cream!

Out of the Landis transcript, that was another thing that piqued my memory...

Pretty easy for a complicit soigneur to 'rub someone the wrong way' for the right ends. I always did think Flandis looked a little 'jacked' on that day...

Alright, allow me to remove my tinfoil hat before you respond...

 

[Benotti69]

Sure. Go for it.

More thinking on this, the UCI collects the sample and turns it over to the AFLD. They have their little mitts on it for a portion of time, so maybe it is their opportunity to spike the sample sometime from arriving with the kits and handing it off to the lab.

is it a possibility that Landis was spiked the previous evening or on the morning which also enabled the amazing ride that day, but he didn't know anything about it...

 

[Master50]

My greatest problem with these corruption accusations, the involvement by the UCI, its power, and Pat is 90% of what I read is and cannot even be plausible.
First a UCI anti doping inspector might have the samples from the time it is collected until it is put in the courier's hands and off to the lab. It never goes to the UCI, Never. Many races are tested by a National anti doping body like USADA ASADA CCSE etc.
There are more than 100 UCI antidoping officials and how do you corrupt enough of them to even get a chance they might avoid, tamper or redirect a sample. Then there are the doctors witnessing the test. You have to corrupt them and they are not Cycling doctors but offer their services to the orgainizers of many sports, not just cycling.

The president of the UCI does not deal with most any of the UCI functions directly. There are many staff at UCI headquarters who would come in contact with any issue long before the president made a comment.

Then there are those that are seeking a good doping scandal and they are always watching the players. If there is corruption anywhere it is in the labs and they are not controlled by the UCI either. If there is much manipulation of anti doping testing it is most likely being done for Football, tennis, American Football, basket ball baseball etc.

There is just not enough money in cycling to generate enough bribery to make anyone risk their careers to cover up. That is except for inside the teams.

The biggest corruption in sport is likely more related to betting than doping anyway. Again there is not a lot of money in Cycling other than the tour. But a soccer team with their multi million dollar scandals would probably be a better candidate for a corruption investigation.

There are national soccer leagues with more money than the entirety of cycling.

I would bet the reason Peurto went no where was because football players were involved. Never heard much about those athletes or sports. We could not wait to fall on our swords but football kept it quiet.

We have to stop looking inward to save the world from doping. Yes we have a problem but compared to many other sports we acknowledge our problem and seek to end it. Most other pro sports just say look at cycling to deflect the attention.

It is also time to stop crucifying ourselves over things that are no more. A lot has change in the UCI from the days of FIAC and the FICP.

Even the IOC is getting more credible after the Utah scandals.