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UCI Gravel World Championships 2023, October 7-8, Italy

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Volderke

Volderke

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memyselfandI said:
There's this odd talk how Keegan would and has laughed at WT contracts. Maybe, maybe not. Athletes have different goals, it's not necessarily only money. If you're a road cyclist with roadie ambitions, to win race like Ronde van Vlanderen, or Gran Tour you choose path you need to choose and it's not just salary first. You maybe do short term sacrifices to reach long term goals. And then when you arrive to the top, you are so big investment for the team that you are not soloist, privateer anymore. You're race program is not decided only by yourself. This is one reason why there's limitations for top dogs to visit races like Outbound.
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I can very well understand if a US rider prefers to make a good living out of whatever kind of racing in his homeland, instead of making e.g. 20-30% more abroad but having to leave everyone and everything behind. I always admired Australian cyclists who gave up most of their time at home to race in Europe. The racing is already hard, let alone leaving so much behind.
 
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ChewbaccaDefense

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Red Rick said:
Nobody flames gravel riders for doing what they love and making money while doing it, nor does anyone flame gravel enthusiasts for loving to ride on gravel or watching gravel races.

Literally all the blowback is from insisting gravel riders are of similar level to top road cyclists, and the specific reason it gets so much blowback is simply that the evidence they're not is so strong
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It's actually not, it's about having courses that will allow the opportunity for rides of differing levels physiologically, to have a more even competition. If all you want is to see a race where cardiovascular giftedness is the only factor that matters, move all UCI races to Zwift. And sure, cardiovascular giftedness is going to have the best shot to rule any race...It's just about there being an opportunity for that not to be the case.

EDIT: I mean, US gravel riders who are not Swenson were referred to as "bums," so I think some flaming language has been presented, and the general attitude is that the riders doing gravel races in the US are hasbeens and nobodys.

One also suggests they could make 20-30% more on a WT team...which is interesting, because I think it's interesting that some hasbeen could race in Europe and make 6 figures. Dylan Johnson isn't going to get a WT contract, and doesn't even win major races here...but dude has a salary well above that dude that just loaded his jersey with 10 bidons, and is racing his a$$ off to the front, to distribute them to some WT pro whose in the top 200 in UCI points...
 
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ChewbaccaDefense

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Even moreso, there's veiled clinic talk about how Unbound doesn't drug test...ergo, it must be a dirty race that would not be fair to WT pros...

Which is funny, because I present you with:
90
 
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ChewbaccaDefense

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Kubackjeee said:
Ok so there has been a lot of discussion what makes a Gravel race. Here in example this is how many gravel races look in Poland (this one is on a very short side). But the terrian style is what we ride a lot here.

View: https://youtu.be/5aAR00_igrM?si=L_4b9RnE0_gj4xoY


As You can see every part of the world has it's own definition of gravel. And tbh I think it's beautiful.
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That looks like a lovely ride. I would suggest that some of those roads/trails are more technical than the World's course.

And if the US gravel pros, other than Swenson, are "bums," who are the bums in your video, because nobody has ever heard of them either.

This is a video of one of the favorite rides where I live. The guy who does these videos also has videos of many of the other areas I ride in N. Cal. He's a super nice guy. I'll note that they are not locals, and did this route in the wrong direction...nobody likes to climb Ponderosa that way. Also this is just one of the river canyons we ride (there are 4 main ones). Here, the average ride is 1000 ft (304m) for every 10 mi (16km). That is considered pretty flat. This ride is steeper than that, and there are variations that kick the climbing significantly more (my favorite is to do Yankee to Shirttail to Iowa Hill). Anyway, this loop also doesn't include singletrack, but there are plenty of rides here that do.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IO33CEpCKAQ
 
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ManicJack

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ChewbaccaDefense said:
And this guy probably makes more money than any of the US gravel pros, and he doesn't generally place anywhere near the front (unless the race is really long). This guy has to be making well into the 6 figures. Also, this is one of the races I'm doing next year. It looks like so much fun, I'm stoked to be doing it.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRwGtPek1FQ&t=381s
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I've been thinking about that one for a couple of years now. Heard great things from many people about it. It's just hard to commit to the winter of training for a race of that duration, that early in the year. It's still prime ski season here in Colorado.
 
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ManicJack said:
I've been thinking about that one for a couple of years now. Heard great things from many people about it. It's just hard to commit to the winter of training for a race of that duration, that early in the year. It's still prime ski season here in Colorado.
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Yeah, I'm near Tahoe, and a lot of my friends are still skiing then, and won't be riding. My wife and I coach with the local HS mountaing bike team, so our riding season with them starts in less than a month, and we ride all winter (weather permitting...there was a practice last year where we got caught in almost white out conditions at night, so we have retooled a bit). Those kids are fast and will whip anyone into shape, so I'm already in training mode and racing cyclocross as well. I'll do Grasshopper Low Gap in late Jan, then Cobbler (I'm actually doing the 50 miler there, as it is still early season) and Huffmaster in Feb, and then probably Shasta in March, Sea Otter in April, Paydirt in May, and Lost and Found in June...then it's off to some bikepacking. I have a course planned out from my house to Mammoth, which will take about 6 days (maybe Aquarius Huts in August or Sept. We did Durango to Moab this year). I may do a BWR next year, as I've wanted to do the one in Utah pretty badly, and I'll do Grinduro in August, because any chance to ride near Shasta is one that I want to take.. I'm pretty lucky to be so close to so many great rides/races.
 
ManicJack

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ChewbaccaDefense said:
I may do a BWR next year, as I've wanted to do the one in Utah pretty badly
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The BWR Utah race is really fun. Did it the last 2 years. You can always make an extended trip and head up road an hour or so and ride the Crusher course and all the great dirt around there. I'm leaving tomorrow AM for the BWR Kansas. They claim it's their best course. We'll see.
The Durango to Moab ride is great. I love SW Colorado. Have a house under contract in Fruita that I'm going to VRBO and use a ton myself. Lots of great dirt roads from there well into Utah, let alone the MTB riding. Check out an organizer called Desert Gravel. They do a great race out of Fruita in the late spring called CO2UT
 
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Lequack said:
Who would've thought gravel is so divisive.
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I know you meant this to be tongue and cheek, but in reality anyone can see this coming from a mile away. Just some background.. aerobars!!omg the amount of debate.. Stopping at aid stations or not, professional out on the course support!! Yikes heated and ugly debate!! SEX!!! If you follow the debate about gravel races having a mixed start, women and men working together.. Many female racers unable to tell where they stand during the event because possibly female racer working in a men's breakaway. And the discussion on " testing " Dylan Johnson on Chris Miller YouTube saying that it's almost non existent. Introduce the UCI and their ability to F everything up..first gravel championship is on road bikes w 25-28 tires, nothing technical, bad mix of on and off road and almost no climbing, no altitude.
All the mass start good nature, non ultra competitive vibe of gravel, sort of a Grateful Dead bicycle event w bongs and quirky clothing is going to find it's place and so will the race version. Wout and others are sort of the story.. Riders losing multiple minutes because they were not prepared to fix a flat or WT level riders used to deep hand ups, multiple bottles, food,gels, in a bag throw away what you don't want.. Typical gravel rider has a couple of full meals,camp stove, shaving kit and wheel truing stand strapped to their bike.. This is all sort of like if you made a serious version of the movie Dodgeball..or if the infamous movie Best in Show was made into a drama.. You can't mix informal hippy bike riding with UCI pro license racers..and in the US the storm is on the horizon.. Unbound, Leadville, Belgian Waffle and many others started their events because they don't want anything to do with USA Cycling and UCI BS..they want to exist outside the umbrella of " organized bike racing " ..most have a cool twist on an off-road gran fondo and @90% of the participants are not serious about anything other than guzzling IPA after it's done..
Most of these posts are examples of gravel divisions into serious people who want to get a license and the other groups that don't..
 
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ChewbaccaDefense

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ManicJack said:
The BWR Utah race is really fun. Did it the last 2 years. You can always make an extended trip and head up road an hour or so and ride the Crusher course and all the great dirt around there. I'm leaving tomorrow AM for the BWR Kansas. They claim it's their best course. We'll see.
The Durango to Moab ride is great. I love SW Colorado. Have a house under contract in Fruita that I'm going to VRBO and use a ton myself. Lots of great dirt roads from there well into Utah, let alone the MTB riding. Check out an organizer called Desert Gravel. They do a great race out of Fruita in the late spring called CO2UT
Click to expand...
There was a Moab to Fruita ride last weekend that looked like it was a beautiful ride. I am a huge fan of all of Utah and western CO. I'm as fair skinned and cold weather built as they come, but there's something about the arid beauty of that area that makes me love it. I've been all over the US and world, but I always default back to Utah when I need to get away.
 
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ChewbaccaDefense

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Unchained said:
I know you meant this to be tongue and cheek, but in reality anyone can see this coming from a mile away. Just some background.. aerobars!!omg the amount of debate.. Stopping at aid stations or not, professional out on the course support!! Yikes heated and ugly debate!! SEX!!! If you follow the debate about gravel races having a mixed start, women and men working together.. Many female racers unable to tell where they stand during the event because possibly female racer working in a men's breakaway. And the discussion on " testing " Dylan Johnson on Chris Miller YouTube saying that it's almost non existent. Introduce the UCI and their ability to F everything up..first gravel championship is on road bikes w 25-28 tires, nothing technical, bad mix of on and off road and almost no climbing, no altitude.
All the mass start good nature, non ultra competitive vibe of gravel, sort of a Grateful Dead bicycle event w bongs and quirky clothing is going to find it's place and so will the race version. Wout and others are sort of the story.. Riders losing multiple minutes because they were not prepared to fix a flat or WT level riders used to deep hand ups, multiple bottles, food,gels, in a bag throw away what you don't want.. Typical gravel rider has a couple of full meals,camp stove, shaving kit and wheel truing stand strapped to their bike.. This is all sort of like if you made a serious version of the movie Dodgeball..or if the infamous movie Best in Show was made into a drama.. You can't mix informal hippy bike riding with UCI pro license racers..and in the US the storm is on the horizon.. Unbound, Leadville, Belgian Waffle and many others started their events because they don't want anything to do with USA Cycling and UCI BS..they want to exist outside the umbrella of " organized bike racing " ..most have a cool twist on an off-road gran fondo and @90% of the participants are not serious about anything other than guzzling IPA after it's done..
Most of these posts are examples of gravel divisions into serious people who want to get a license and the other groups that don't..
Click to expand...
<raises hand>

Spot on! I have no desire to see the the UCIifcation of gravel.

I don't drink, but I always give away my beer ticket to my riding partner, because that dude will pull my a$$ for miles and miles...and if he isn't there, to my wife, who is a freak of nature physiologically (resting HR in the 30's) and almost always drops me early (she's the type that will be kicking your ass up a climb, and chatting away like we're at a f**king dinner party...I love her but there has been many a time where I told her to STFU, because I was tired of knowing just how little she was suffering). Actually, one of the coolest parts of riding where I live are the huge number of really tallented women athletes. It's also one reason I love to see the longer races, because as the distance goes, the gaps to the women lessen in many instances.

Lastly, in the spirt of the last sentence, f**k the UCI and their lack of video coverage, and pretending that women need shorter races...because they're women.
 
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ManicJack

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ChewbaccaDefense said:
There was a Moab to Fruita ride last weekend that looked like it was a beautiful ride. I am a huge fan of all of Utah and western CO. I'm as fair skinned and cold weather built as they come, but there's something about the arid beauty of that area that makes me love it. I've been all over the US and world, but I always default back to Utah when I need to get away.
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Same promoter as the CO2UT race that I mentioned is in late spring. The high desert isn't for everyone but I love it.
 
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