UCI helped Froome with illegal(?) TUE at Romandie

[Dear Wiggo]

My assumption is that it's A for A. Prednisone is legal Out of Competition, when most of the heavy training takes place, but illegal In competition. Glow time - normally - about 4 days as I understand, but maybe even more if you have abused it for a long time as the body compensates and down regulates its own cortisol production (because it now gets it from the outside via drug).

Especially given the steroid profile APMU was only introduced this year, I believe?

ie they are not just testing for exogenous products, but are also recording steroid levels and monitoring their changes. So again you have expected levels and if someone falls outside that range...

-= PEWF =-

ETA: I believe this is the reason Henao was sent back to Colombia - and his urine samples resubmitted. For the new profiles being recorded for steroids, not his blood for blood parameters.

 

[TheGame]

Especially given the steroid profile APMU was only ETA: I believe this is the reason Henao was sent back to Colombia - and his urine samples resubmitted. For the new profiles being recorded for steroids, not his blood for blood parameters.

The anomaly in Henao's values was not related to the new steroidal module of the Biological passport. This was confirmed by sky. It related to his blood parameters with the "new" element being the fact that Colombian riders had not previously had ABP samples collected while in Colombia.

This was confirmed by Fran Millar. She was explicitly asked "was the anomaly in relation to the new steroidal module" and answered no. It was related to his blood values.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

The anomaly in Henao's values was not related to the new steroidal module of the Biological passport. This was confirmed by sky. It related to his blood parameters with the "new" element being the fact that Colombian riders had not previously had ABP samples collected while in Colombia.

This was confirmed by Fran Millar. She was explicitly asked "was the anomaly in relation to the new steroidal module" and answered no. It was related to his blood values.

Huh. Thanks for the update.

They mentioned his urine was being sent back, not his blood. Other than EPO, what use would urine be in confirming the results they achieved wrt his blood profile (that was rhetorical rumination).

 

[Brooks Fahey Baldwin]

Out of interest, what is stroke volume? How does it corrolate to the use of PEDs?

Stroke volume is the amount of blood the heart pushed out with one beat.
Cardiac output determines how much blood can make it around to your working muscles, therefore its a big factor in how hard you can push.
The other major ones being the amount of oxygen you can cram in to each litre of blood, and how quickly the mitochondria in the muscle can handle oxydative phosphorylation. Then there's the anearobic threshold stuff.

Cardiac output = stroke volume x HR.
When heart rate rises the actual stroke volume increases due to the Frank-Starling law. ie, more blood returning to the heart makes the ventricle walls stretch out more and eject more blood with each heart beat. After about 160bpm in most people the increases in cardiac output comes almost entirely from increases in HR.

Two things strike me about Froome. His ability to do those mental seated attacks and his very big stroke volume. I have a feeling he has worked signficantly on anearobic threshold to be able to manage the seated attacks.

 

[Brooks Fahey Baldwin]

So you're saying we should all look at doping as a positive thing, explain?

I'm not suggesting it is a good thing. But I would have thought there would have always been one or two people per forum that would do that. Maybe cyclists actually do have more morality than body builders

As for the whole cardiac output etc. It doesnt say much at all. All you can do is look at his figures and scratch your head thinking "not normal".
Anyhoo, I guess the point I am trying to make is that either Froome's physiology is amazing (I might have thought that in 1997) or that his doping program is amazing.

 

[thehog]

Stroke volume is the amount of blood the heart pushed out with one beat.
Cardiac output determines how much blood can make it around to your working muscles, therefore its a big factor in how hard you can push.
The other major ones being the amount of oxygen you can cram in to each litre of blood, and how quickly the mitochondria in the muscle can handle oxydative phosphorylation. Then there's the anearobic threshold stuff.

Cardiac output = stroke volume x HR.
When heart rate rises the actual stroke volume increases due to the Frank-Starling law. ie, more blood returning to the heart makes the ventricle walls stretch out more and eject more blood with each heart beat. After about 160bpm in most people the increases in cardiac output comes almost entirely from increases in HR.

Two things strike me about Froome. His ability to do those mental seated attacks and his very big stroke volume. I have a feeling he has worked signficantly on anearobic threshold to be able to manage the seated attacks.

He does appear to be a very big fan of interval training at threshold. 2 seated, one out of the saddle x 25.

Up, down. Up down.

He also appears to like these 5-7 hour LSD riders.

Nothing new here but he does go on and on about the intervals and why he makes the reference to Contador & coffee.

Whether this is all just BS in his book, I don't know. But doping is only going to assist those intervals coupled with 7 hour rides per recovery.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Another reply to your first point. Yes the UCI could do that, but why?

Hiding positives, something we know they do, is good for business.

Put another way, what happens if another TdF winner tests positive? Everybody that matters is unhappy. (ASO, not viewers)

 

[DirtyWorks]

It would only be the case if the drug for the TUE is a masking agent, is there any evidence this is the case?

Regarding the bolded, why would it ONLY be a mask?

The TUE sort of explains the inhaler device. Except, it doesn't explain anything because it's another case where not one of the party's message/story fit together and we're just supposed to accept it.

True to every other time the UCI has done similar things for a favored rider, it reduces the sport's credibility.

Which, interestingly enough, Bach from the IOC just met with the UCI to proclaim the bio-passport a success...

 

[RobbieCanuck]

What's so strange about that? Drugs are created first and foremost to heal people.*

Then those healing effects can be abused to enhance athletic performance (or at the end of a 3 week mountainous GT more likely restore it)

*maybe you were being ironic

I would suggest most drugs are designed to relieve pain, or as a way of preventing further damage to the body i.e. blood thinners to prevent heart attacks or strokes or infection etc. The relief of pain then gives the bodies's natural mechanisms time to heal the body.

The only drugs that I can think of that may actually heal the body indirectly are antibiotics.

 

[northstar]

It was applied before the prologue. It was granted on the day of the race and applied for ahead of the race.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ot...-did-not-break-anti-doping-rules-say-UCI.html

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/cycling/27882004

The team applied for the TUE after the prologue. "I gave everything I had in the Romandie prologue but I was coughing so much that we decided to ask for a TUE that evening," Froome said.

You can find this quote in the Blazing Saddles blog that you screen capped and posted without a link. TheGame then posted a link (post 565). Also, upthread there was a discussion about the TUE timing and Dear Wiggo posted a link (post 362) confirming it was granted in the evening.

The links in your post contain incomplete info or inaccurate statements.

 

[sittingbison]

...The only drugs that I can think of that may actually heal the body indirectly are antibiotics.

Indeed a "may", as they kill off the nasties allowing the body to heal thyself. Problem is they also kill off the good stuff....

 

[86TDFWinner]

Its hard to explain to those that don't follow cycling how a sedative or pain killer could help performance with sleep.

It is an interesting concept to think some banned drugs would help heal the body.

I follow cycling, just don't get why some doping is fine, and other doping isn't? doping is doping.

 

[Tinman]

The team applied for the TUE after the prologue. "I gave everything I had in the Romandie prologue but I was coughing so much that we decided to ask for a TUE that evening," Froome said.

It's actually an ambiguous statement by Froome. Whilst it infers - through "but", and the sequencing, that "that evening" was the evening after the prologue, it could just as correctly refer to the evening before , ie. the evening of the coughing, irrespective of when that was (maybe the day before?).

Clever wording perhaps?

What news does the BBC draw on that makes them conclude before?

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/cycling/27882004

 

[Will Carter]

I follow cycling, just don't get why some doping is fine, and other doping isn't? doping is doping.

Not sure its just cycling. All sports should use the WADA list as their basis so in theory 'some doping' is allowed in all sport.

 

[Will Carter]

It's actually an ambiguous statement by Froome. Whilst it infers - through "but", and the sequencing, that "that evening" was the evening after the prologue, it could just as correctly refer to the evening before , ie. the evening of the coughing, irrespective of when that was (maybe the day before?).

Clever wording perhaps?

What news does the BBC draw on that makes them conclude before?

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/cycling/27882004

The confusion probably comes from multiple news stories all being slightly different. The Journal du Dimanche claimed 'ahead of the race' but maybe they don't know for sure as they were reporting based on a leak / hearsay.

It was granted before day 2 by the sounds of it, whether that is before or on day 1 is unclear.

 

[Joe Banks]

https://medium.com/@MichaelCarcaise/tue-confidentiality-in-pro-cycling-909dc2972c37

"If this violation goes unpunished we will see a dangerous “new normal” emerge in which pro cyclists are pressured to publicly disclose their TUEs or, when they refuse to do so, face damage to their reputation when their TUEs are leaked to the press....Imagine the new parlor game the armchair MDs in The Clinic will play, reverse engineering diagnoses for riders based on the medicines they take."

 

[DirtyWorks]

"If this violation goes unpunished we will see a dangerous “new normal” emerge in which pro cyclists are pressured to publicly disclose their TUEs or, when they refuse to do so, face damage to their reputation when their TUEs are leaked to the press....Imagine the new parlor game the armchair MDs in The Clinic will play, reverse engineering diagnoses for riders based on the medicines they take."

Ugh. This is more doping apologists garbage distracts from the simple truth the UCI cares so much about anti-doping they cannot be bothered to follow WADA procedure.

 

[Mishrak]

That's fairly interesting. And yes it's got Sky written all over it.

Who's book is this actually from by the way? (Assuming Tyler)

 

[thehog]

Who's book is this actually from by the way?

The David Miller book. Racing through the Dark.

 

[Catwhoorg]

The David Miller book. Racing through the Dark.

For all the stick he sometimes get round here, he did do a pretty good job of publicly disclosing some of the methods and substances.

(and I have little doubt he did even better to the anti-doping authorities).

 

[Hawkwood]

The David Miller book. Racing through the Dark.

Interesting him saying it was the drug of choice for the French, I think I read that Thevenet took it to defeat Merckx back in 1975.

 

[Benotti69]

For all the stick he sometimes get round here, he did do a pretty good job of publicly disclosing some of the methods and substances.

(and I have little doubt he did even better to the anti-doping authorities).

My guess is that method is common knowledge and that Millar did not disclose anything new.

 

[jens_attacks]

Interesting him saying it was the drug of choice for the French, I think I read that Thevenet took it to defeat Merckx back in 1975.

he didn't defeat merckx only by doing that
but yes, both thevenet and hinault were notorious for their massive cortisone abuse. which absolutely in time put the end on their careers(especially thevenet's).knees destroyer.

 

[thehog]

Interesting him saying it was the drug of choice for the French, I think I read that Thevenet took it to defeat Merckx back in 1975.

It's the drug of choice for many because it's so readily available. EPO is a specialist drug for unique sicknesses. Cortisone had universal usage and can be acquired like cough medicine.

The SA-AIS and AIS it was "on-tap". Easy for a Doctor to prescribe and offset an amount for "off-books" usage.

Similarly in Switzerland asthma medications and the like are basically over the counter.

 

[Will Carter]

Ugh. This is more doping apologists garbage distracts from the simple truth the UCI cares so much about anti-doping they cannot be bothered to follow WADA procedure.

Which bit of WADA procedure did they not follow?