UCI helped Froome with illegal(?) TUE at Romandie

[froooome]

Martin misjudged his line and had to unclip at one point, costing him several seconds by his comments at the time, and still only lost by a second.

And was able to beat Sergeant only by 8 seconds. Obviously a bad day for Martin. If Martin has had his last year over 6.5 W/kg/h WC TT-form, he would have beat froomey at least 30 secs.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

I rarely spend any time in the Clinic anymore, but this entire case is just so absurd, so pathetic, it brought me out of my lurking cave.

The worrying part of all this is I believe Cookson is soft on doping.

Me too, as if being better than Pat, and less corrupt than Pat is good enough. When in his gut he has to know it's not.

Nothing has changed.

Little I fear. I'm not saying this is 1996 or 2002 all over again when guys were completely jacked and Hein and Pat all but encouraged it. But Cookson is basically overseeing a sport with a big image problem on the cusp of huge revenue losses if another dent is put into it's image. So having things swept under the carpet helps cover that wound in the perceived eyes of the world. Though any unbiased fan with a brain can see what's going on here. They cheated, and damned near got completely away with it with some inside help, leaving the UCI to backtrack with and for them.

 

[ebandit]

sadly

So the UCI admit they made a mista...reatment for asthmatic inflammation Mark L

 

[Tyre Byter]

In veterinary medicine prednisone/prednisolone is used to treat mammals from mice to elephants.

Extraterrestrials ... not so sure

 

[froooome]

i'm no doctor but a quick web search states that froome's treatment was a recognised treatment for asthmatic inflammation

Yeah, but the important things are that froomey is quite too aesthetic on his bike and that he has let to understand that Henderson is a (small) ***.

 

[jem1130]

why are members describing froome's treatment as 'abusing horse steroids'
i'm no doctor but a quick web search states that froome's treatment was a recognised treatment for asthmatic inflammation

Mark L

^^^This

I don't get the horse steroid and elephant steroid comments. So, it gets used on animals that are bigger than humans, why does that matter? So do many antibiotics. Next time a rider has a sinus infection and gets prescribed some generic antibiotic will he get castigated for using horse medication? I'm not a pro, but I've been given prednisone(in conjunction with antibiotics) to help kick many, many sinus infections, and in similar doses to what Froome requested. The fact that a human being was prescribed 40mg of prednisone to help combat a chest infection is really not a big deal, or all that uncommon in the real world of practical medicine.

It seems to me that the real point is being lost in comments like this. The specific drug in question (but not the fact that it was a banned drug) and the dose are really irrelevant. What's important is the ethical question of "If you're so sick that you have to have a banned substance to function, should you be competing in the first place?" There's a real debate that should take place regarding things like the MPCC stance that you're out for 8 days, and the UCI stance that as long as you have a TUE you're good to go. Lots good ethics debate to be had on that one. However, when we have the vast majority of 750+ comments (all made by a relatively few commenters) trying to call this Froome's "backdated cortisone script" moment, then the real debate gets lost in the shuffle.

Is it possible to ratchet down the Froome-hate for a moment? Just long enough to have an actual intelligent conversation on the topic of TUEs and their ethical implications? He dopes and he wins, I get it, but there really is a much bigger issue to discuss than a single rider doping to win the tour of Romandie.

 

[Nederick]

Last night I was watching the Italy v Uruguay game. Pretty boring. So got back to going through TDF 2011. Stage 17 and Sherwen is commenting on what a pity it is that Europcar lost a valuable rider earlier due to tendonitis who would have been useful in helping defend Tommy V's yellow.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/tour-de-france-sickbay-possible-tendonitis-for-kern

Then he goes on to say that maybe a cortisone injection could have helped, but due to 'these new rules' that isn't possible so he had to withdraw from the race.

If only he'd been riding for Sky that year....

Then again, dosing up with cortisone for a short term goal of finishing the Tour might have exacerbated the underlying injury issue for him in the long term anyway.

Wonder what the 'new rules' were that Sherwen was referring to back then. Any ideas? (No needles? MPCC?)

 

[peloton]

Just curious, has any poster here actually had a bad chest infection?

I did years ago when I was young and very fit. I got the antibiotics at first, which didn't help at all. I coughed so much I had to keep a bucket next to my bed at nights. Training was obviously out of the question at that point, as I could barely stand up for couple hours.
After a week of agony, the doc described me corticosteroids, and slowly but surely, I got better.

I had lost most of my muscles and a lot of weight, it took me 3 months to recover from it to full health.

So I cannot imagine anyone training, let alone racing if one has a true chest infection.

 

[Catwhoorg]

Last night I was watching the Italy v Uruguay game. Pretty boring. So got back to going through TDF 2011. Stage 17 and Sherwen is commenting on what a pity it is that Europcar lost a valuable rider earlier due to tendonitis who would have been useful in helping defend Tommy V's yellow.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/tour-de-france-sickbay-possible-tendonitis-for-kern

Then he goes on to say that maybe a cortisone injection could have helped, but due to 'these new rules' that isn't possible so he had to withdraw from the race.

If only he'd been riding for Sky that year....

Then again, dosing up with cortisone for a short term goal of finishing the Tour might have exacerbated the underlying injury issue for him in the long term anyway.

Wonder what the 'new rules' were that Sherwen was referring to back then. Any ideas? (No needles? MPCC?)

Probably the MPCC one. Cortisone shot for tendonitis is possible with a TUE.

Of course its not a good idea long term, but neither is doing the whole TDF with a broken pelvis.


I do think the MPCC guideline is a good one, and something the UCI ought to consider adopting as over and above the WADA code.

 

[Hawkwood]

Yes it's rather odd that the UCI have trouble and delays getting their testing together at Tenerife meanwhile they appear very responsive in handing out TUEs for elephant* steroids

(*No I didn't make that up: http://www.elephantcare.org/Drugs/predniso.htm)

You mean like horse* NSAIDs?

(*No I didn't make that up, look up giving aspirin to horses)

 

[froooome]

Is it possible to ratchet down the Froome-hate for a moment?

No, it is one of the driving force of the clinic On the other hand, who cares? This is just an another anonymous internet forum where less than twenty fanatics repeat themselves 24/7 and are waiting for the moment of their lives: "what did I say". But as every forum even this one has its value of entertainment, but nothing more than that.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Just for kicks, I looked up treatment for chest infection, on UK websites. By everything I can gather, nearly every physician will first try to determine how sick you are, then prescribe antibiotics if it is believed to be a bacterial infection. If a viral infection, antivirals may be given, though they are often less effective. It's often only when people are completely wiped out after a few days and other medications failed that they get steroids.

It's simply astounding that the average healthy person with a chest infection will have a fever, be coughing frequently including coughing up thick mucus, have very low energy, feel confused or disoriented even, and need a few days of bed rest. Chris Froom on the other hand is sick with this and wins one of the most premiere races on earth.

Too bad it looks like the UCI is changing things. Froom missed a great opportunity to get "sick" again in a short two weeks.

Reminds me of 2010 Vuelta.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Well, Spilak was able to follow horse steroid froomey in the mountain stage, just like last year. Horse steroi froomey beat Martin by one second in a relatively short TT and Martin was able to beat Sergeant only by 8 seconds.

But sure you can interpret the results as you like.

It was far from normal. If froomey had has his normal form he would have dropped Spilak and beat Sergeant at least 30 secs.

Btw, I think cortsisone froomey is not as good form as super strong blood bag bertie in this year but I wish I'm wrong

Froome couldn't drop Spilak, actually was beaten by him.

Froome dropped Spilak and then waited for him.

As admitted by both Froome and Sky's DS on the day, and was obvious when watching the stage live.

The fact that Spilak outsprinted Froome at the end him seems immaterial given this scenario.

Have you seen the stage, or read any of the stage reports?

Again: Froome waited for Spilak.

You are now officially a troll.

 

[thehog]

sadly it was not cheating as official protocol was adhered to so result will stand

why are members describing froome's treatment as 'abusing horse steroids'
i'm no doctor but a quick web search states that froome's treatment was a recognised treatment for asthmatic inflammation

Mark L

And did that recommended treatment also suggest antibiotics and rest in the fist instance?

 

[Rollthedice]

And did that recommended treatment also suggest antibiotics and rest in the fist instance?

Obvious is obvious. Prednisone is prescribed when things are really bad. 40mg/day is a high dose. Either Froomey should have stayed in bed if so sick and take the damn steroids or compete if capable without PEDs. Zorzoli is the commission of experts, getz a fax in the evening and grants a TUE. Vroome takes the corticosteroids then takes off, drops everybody on the mountain and wins the TT and the Romandie. All legal of course.

 

[Granville57]

Just for kicks, I looked up treatment for chest infection, on UK websites.

Too bad it looks like the UCI is changing things. Froom missed a great opportunity to get "sick" again in a short two weeks.

Daaaaamn. The Clinic goes Ol' Skool!

You know things are FUBAR when even Alpe is getting in on the action.

I rarely spend any time in the Clinic anymore, but this entire case is just so absurd, so pathetic, it brought me out of my lurking cave.

Twice even!




I can't wait for July.

 

[mewmewmew13]

It is very nice to see Alpe.

And Mr Clean racing "you can believe in me" needs a TUE to sweep up the rest of the miserable healthy riders...

 

[ebandit]

doubt

And did that recommended treatment also suggest antibiotics and rest in the fist instance?

in my opinion froome should not have been riding with medication that is likely to give a performance advantage

is it correct that froome started........and then required treatmentt.......here i accept said treatment may be more valid

but my point was pointing out your and others excessive trollcraft describing froome as 'abusing horse steroids'

Mark L

 

[Froomster]

As an asthma sufferer since I was young (no, really!), I can tell you that a serious doctor does not prescribe oral steroids these days as the first line treatment. They prescribe inhaled steroids, mixed with a long acting beta2-agonist.

For those non-asthmatics, the beta2-agonist is a medium-term action compound which performs similarly to salbutermol (eg. Ventolin), which acts within seconds to relieve most acute asthma symptoms. The inhaled steroids of choice these days are not prednisone or prednisolone, which are taken in tablet form, but something like fluticasone, which also has steroidal actions.

However, the difference between prednisone and other asthma steroid-based medications these days is that prednisone is not usually available in an inhaled formulation, but is a tablet.

Inhaled asthma steriods and beta2-agonists are the preferred first treatment of ALL honest and qualifed medical practitioners (except when a patient presents with potentially life-threatening symptoms), because the inhaled drugs go straight to the source of the problem - the lungs - and because inhaled steriods do not have very much proliferation into the bloodstream and therefore the rest of the body. That is, they do not have systemic steroidal effects.

Conversely, tablet-based steroids, such as prednisone/prednisolone by their nature proliferate through the bloodstream, into the lungs as well as everywhere else and produce their "lovely" effects bodywide.

Any doctor with any amount of continuing education conducted within the past 30 years would know all of this and, if their desire was to treat an acute asthma attack (unless it was so severe that the patient was being transported to hospital in an ambulance), they would first ask the patient to inhale the maximum recommended dose of Ventolin. If their condition was deemed a risk of persisting, they would then prescribe a high dose of inhaled preventer medication, such as Seretide.

If the patient was still in distress after that treatment, they would typically recommend that they be transported to hospital, given oxygen and oral prednisone.

However, were I wanting to ensure a systemic steroidal treatment for an asthma attack, rather than the most modern and recommended treatment for a severe reaction (ie. inhaled steroids), then I would do what Sky's doctors did, and ask the UCI for permission to give the Dawg a dose of the roids.

If it looks like a rose, but stinks like a corpse, then someone's having you on.

 

[thehog]

in my opinion froome should not have been riding with medication that is likely to give a performance advantage

is it correct that froome started........and then required treatmentt.......here i accept said treatment may be more valid

but my point was pointing out your and others excessive trollcraft describing froome as 'abusing horse steroids'

Mark L

So Froome taunting Nibali over Twitter knowing that he was on steroids & Nibali wasn't isn't abusing PEDs? Or at the very least taking advantage of them knowing your competitor would scratch themselves from the race if they had to take similar?

Nibali refused cortisone for a bee sting at the Vuelta.

And mentioning the rain? So was he sick or not?

And arriving in the town centre of the UCI! Showing them what a TUE can do!

 

[simoni]

Errrrrr, maybe merely predicting a daredevil wet weather attack on the descent from Nibali? You know, the thing he's notorious for. You lot are nuts. NOT everything is about drugs.

 

[thehog]

Errrrrr, maybe merely predicting a daredevil wet weather attack on the descent from Nibali? You know, the thing he's notorious for. You lot are nuts. NOT everything is about drugs.

Sure. And the counter attacking Nibali into submission whilst on a Prednisone high wasn't about drugs?

Maybe that was a get back for the SRM comment

 

[JimmyFingers]

So Froome taunting Nibali over Twitter knowing that he was on steroids & Nibali wasn't isn't abusing PEDs? Or at the very least taking advantage of them knowing your competitor would scratch themselves from the race if they had to take similar?

Nibali refused cortisone for a bee sting at the Vuelta.

And mentioning the rain? So was he sick or not?

And arriving in the town centre of the UCI! Showing them what a TUE can do!

Good spin there. That's not taunting, that's bants, and in fact that's complimentary, basically saying Nibali is dangerous on stages like that and in those conditions and likely to attack.

And Nibali didn't refuse cortisone like some noble, clean rider, he wasn't allowed it under MPCC rules, much to the disgust of Vino and most probably Nibali himself.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/mpcc-advised-astana-on-nibali-wasp-sting

while Alexandre Vinokourov was described as having been “sent into a fury” by the news that Nibali would be unable to treat the sting with anything stronger than an antihistamine.

While they obeyed MPCC rules they did so grudgingly.

This affair is bad, bad from the UCI, bad from Froome and bad from Sky. But no need to try to spin it constantly into something else with half-truths and the usual gross exaggerations.

 

[djpbaltimore]

Errrrrr, maybe merely predicting a daredevil wet weather attack on the descent from Nibali? You know, the thing he's notorious for. You lot are nuts. NOT everything is about drugs.

I totally agree with you about the intent behind that tweet. I assume the other interpretation concerning doping was meant tongue in cheek.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Ulissi pinged at the Giro. He's on an MPCC team.

But they're not hypocrites like Sky of course.