UCI helped Froome with illegal(?) TUE at Romandie

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Feb 28, 2010
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DirtyWorks said:
The more one tries to fill in the logistical improbabilities, the story just gets less plausible. That's why I love that "5 illnesses of a super hero" story.

I'd be extremely surprised if a doctor working for a cycling team didn't have a flow meter, it's a basic piece of kit. The test using a peak flow meter takes me about 5 seconds at the most. Using a spirometer would probably take a few seconds more.
 
Hawkwood said:
I'd be extremely surprised if a doctor working for a cycling team didn't have a flow meter, it's a basic piece of kit. The test using a peak flow meter takes me about 5 seconds at the most. Using a spirometer would probably take a few seconds more.

Again, we're talking logistical improbability. Where in the world is the doctor? Where's Froome Dog? Tenerife? Monaco? Majorca? A team doctor doesn't normally follow riders around the world with a giant medical kit. How many medical doctors outside of sport care enough to fill out TUE forms?

The more specific you get, the worse their story gets.

The old way is to find a TUE friendly doctor and !!cough!!!, or not, asking for the drug. Get Zorzoli on the phone to do the UCI's side and it's all done.
 
Aug 30, 2012
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bobbins said:
This isn't the first time that Sky have been helped with a TUE by the UCI, a backdated one got them out of the *** a couple of seasons ago.

Are you able to share any further details on this?
 
Mar 25, 2013
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bobbins said:
This isn't the first time that Sky have been helped with a TUE by the UCI, a backdated one got them out of the *** a couple of seasons ago.

Are you on about Uran's TUE back in 2011?
 
Feb 28, 2010
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DirtyWorks said:
Again, we're talking logistical improbability. Where in the world is the doctor? Where's Froome Dog? Tenerife? Monaco? Majorca? A team doctor doesn't normally follow riders around the world with a giant medical kit. How many medical doctors outside of sport care enough to fill out TUE forms?

The more specific you get, the worse their story gets.

The old way is to find a TUE friendly doctor and !!cough!!!, or not, asking for the drug. Get Zorzoli on the phone to do the UCI's side and it's all done.

I thought the timing was that they applied for the TUE on the evening after the Romandie prologue. And I thought it was Alan Farrell who applied for it. The doctor didn't need a `giant medical kit' a peak flow meter measures about 7 inches long, and I would guess most have one in their emergency bag, they'd be pretty daft not to. Spirometers come in all shapes and sizes, but many aren't that big. I see various doctors and nurses at the surgery I go to, and all of them have a peak flow meter on their desk. I've been given two on the NHS, as it's a common thing for asthmatics be be told to use them so that they can monitor their condition. The key diagnostic indicators that WADA asks for can be checked with standard kit your local doctor has. Alan Farrell went into anaesthetics after graduating so he'll know all about asthma.
 
red_flanders said:
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic. Are you suggesting those can't be made up? I don't see why not.

This goes to the very issue of the "One man TUE committee (OMTC?)" that is/was Zorzoli. A team doctor could send in some fairly BS notes on a rider's condition and have one person view and approve. Much harder to falsify if you have 3, as presumably it's harder to corrupt 3 people than 1.

An important point !

How the hell does a single doctor do due-diligence on TUE applications during a GT ?

He has to police a couple of hundred riders spread over 20 Hotels maybe spread over a hundred km. How much analysis is he going to do if he has two riders on either side of the city on the end of a stage, both looking for TUEs ?

My guess is, ****** all !
 
Feb 28, 2010
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DirtyWorks said:
By any chance are these doctors specialists? I just don't see that kind of thing in my part of the world.

Some of them will have done some extra training on asthma, plus other diseases, but none of them are specialists. Where are you based because asthma and chronic obstructive pulmonary disease are at high levels in the UK, 5.4 million people for the former, and 2.2 for the latter? This means that on average one is eight people attending a surgery will have one of the two diseases, and they're assessed using a peak flow meter or spirometer. In reality more than one in eight will have either of the two lung diseases because these groups are more likely to be ill. The British National Formulary simply assumes all doctors in general practice have got a peak flow meter. It does list 12 meters that can be prescribed for patients, the cheapest being £4.50. According to the national guidelines every asthmatic in the UK should have at least one check up a year, mine is tomorrow, and my peak flow will be tested.
 
Sep 29, 2012
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bobbins said:
It was 2011. Just before the big tours, cortisone +ve in a race. Backdated tue needed. Apparently leinders sorted things out with the UCI.

So I am guessing not all TUEs are registered in ADAMS - because the +ve test and TUE dates would be damning.

Or can you claim an emergency (coz it's meant to be 21 days for a TUE).
 
Mar 25, 2013
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Greg talking about this.

BS: UCI President Brian Cookson was under the spotlight recently with the whole Froome TUE backlash... What are your thoughts on this?

GL: I think Brian Cookson should be given the benefit of doubt on this one. Looking at it critically, if you can take a step back you can see that there was probably legitimate reason to do it [grant the TUE]. It's kind of a good lesson for the UCI to see how this poses a potential problem in the future and so let's address it now so there's no more backlash. I'd say it was a good experience for the UCI, but one they don't want to repeat. I didn't ever think that Brian Cookson was trying to favour anybody over anybody. If anything it was probably a push from the team [Sky].

BS: But should riders who need a therapeutic use exemption be racing in the first place?

GL: It's all about defining the rules. If the rules say you can get a TUE if you go through this process then it shouldn't be controversial and there should be a process in place to ensure that the TUEs are legitimate. But doctors shouldn't be giving someone a cortisone shot for an infection. If you have a hyper-allergic reaction or a knee swelling - that's when you have good reason for a TUE. But bacterial infections - you don't treat with cortisone. I don't know what Froome had. I assumed it was an allergic reaction. But a good medical doctor can make a determination on what merits a TUE. If you are sick, you're prescribed antibiotics; if you're too sick, you just go home.

The delicate thing is this: I suffered from allergies throughout my career and I've realised, post career, that I was drastically hindered by allergies during the month of May. But you can test for that - to see which pollens bring it on; these are legitimate back up tests for a TUE. Now the medication for things like this is cortisone, but it's obviously not the best thing to do to take cortisone throughout a three-week race. There's a delicate line. There are legitimate people who take asthma medication. It's fairly common. The physical demands of cycling is that it actually lowers your immune system and you expose yourself to a tremendous amount of elements - so certain people might get a chronic overload and develop, say, bad asthma. So, what's the right way to go? If you're a professional racer and it's not bothered you for ten years, then suddenly you're hit by an allergy - that's probably when you decide to apply for a TUE.

Talks about Ulissi later in the interview.

https://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blog...oot-eurosport-announce-widest-113533624.html?
 
Feb 28, 2010
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gooner said:
Greg talking about this.

Talks about Ulissi later in the interview.

https://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blog...oot-eurosport-announce-widest-113533624.html?

I've looked at what WADA says in its guidance about asthma, there's lots of detail, but some of the relevant bits include:

"Medical History
A history of asthma may include a family history of allergies, hay fever or eczema. Individuals may also describe a personal history of childhood respiratory problems, rhinitis, allergic conjunctivitis or dermatitis. In these cases, the development of asthma may be part of an atopic predisposition. However asthma might also develop in otherwise healthy individuals at any age

There may also be a history of persistent cough following a respiratory tract infection, frequent “colds” without fever, or specific seasonal influences and intermittent nocturnal symptoms. Alternatively, symptoms may be entirely activity-induced."

Glucocorticosteroids
The systemic use (e.g. oral or intravenous administration) of GCS is prohibited and requires a TUE. When systemic GCS are used for the treatment of an exacerbation of asthma, a retroactive/emergency TUE should be submitted as soon as possible to the appropriate anti-doping organization."

The bold part above appears to be what Froome was claiming had happened. I had a persistent cough after a cold earlier this year (it lasted months) I now know what drug to ask for at the surgery!
 

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May 14, 2014
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bobbins said:
It was 2011. Just before the big tours, cortisone +ve in a race. Backdated tue needed. Apparently leinders sorted things out with the UCI.

Have you a link for this?
 
Oct 16, 2010
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bobbins said:
It was 2011. Just before the big tours, cortisone +ve in a race. Backdated tue needed. Apparently leinders sorted things out with the UCI.

thanks bobbins, very interesting.

Leinders arranging a TUE. Does Walsh know? :rolleyes:

any idea which rider the TUE was for?
 
sniper said:
thanks bobbins, very interesting.

Leinders arranging a TUE. Does Walsh know? :rolleyes:

any idea which rider the TUE was for?

Not the first time Leinders and Zorzoli sorted medical issues out.

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/1...-to-Riis-following-Rasmussen-allegations.aspx

“Doctor Leinders and doctor Mario Zorzoli, the head of the UCI's Medical Department, had a meeting where they talked the matter over. When it was over, I was allowed to ride on. No cause for alarm.

"Afterwards Dr Leinders told me what had happened. He used a Dutch expression: 'we have butter on the minds'. They glide by, cases. Rabobank had a good relationship with the UCI; We had figured it out amicably


Read the end.

The same behaviour apparently mentioned in a book: http://www.podiumcafe.com/2011/6/17/2228568/Racing-Through-The-Dark
 
Oct 16, 2010
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lllludo said:
Uran at Dauphine 2011 ?
ok thanks. (just saw gooner suggested the same two pages back)
do you know if this is something Sky have been open about or did it come out through investigative journalism?
in any case it crushes the affirmation (put in print by Walsh to show Leinders' ethical values) that Leinders was supposedly against TUEs.

DirtyWorks said:
Not the first time Leinders and Zorzoli sorted medical issues out.

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/1...-to-Riis-following-Rasmussen-allegations.aspx

“Doctor Leinders and doctor Mario Zorzoli, the head of the UCI's Medical Department, had a meeting where they talked the matter over. When it was over, I was allowed to ride on. No cause for alarm.

"Afterwards Dr Leinders told me what had happened. He used a Dutch expression: 'we have butter on the minds'. They glide by, cases. Rabobank had a good relationship with the UCI; We had figured it out amicably


Read the end.

The same behaviour apparently mentioned in a book: http://www.podiumcafe.com/2011/6/17/2228568/Racing-Through-The-Dark
true story.
more pieces of the leinders 'puzzle' (the term 'nobrainer' probably being more appropriate) nicely falling together these days.
 
Dec 11, 2013
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keeponrollin said:
How the hell does a single doctor do due-diligence on TUE applications during a GT ?

Flip side of course is how does a rider who needs a TUE pin down the 3 doctors required to sign it off?
 
Jul 21, 2012
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"There was a TUE Committee but it was only being used for exceptional cases. This was an entirely routine case and Dr Zorzoli approved it, as WADA confirmed two days later," he said justifying why Zorzoli was able to fast-track Froome's TUE during the Tour de Romandie.

If handing out an express TUE for horse steroids to a rider that has a cough is not an exceptional case and totally routine, then I wonder what else they are up to at the UCI.
 
the sceptic said:
If handing out an express TUE for horse steroids to a rider that has a cough is not an exceptional case and totally routine, then I wonder what else they are up to at the UCI.

Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding!

The UCI is manufacturing the cleanest peloton ever.
 
May 26, 2010
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TailWindHome said:
Flip side of course is how does a rider who needs a TUE pin down the 3 doctors required to sign it off?

The teams have 4 doctors and no doubt TUEs are prepared in advance ;)

Probably have a file full of them.