UCI in a panic over document in Friday's L'Equipe

[Polish]

If a rider does not even show up on the list, is he cleaner than a zero?
IE, are zero's dirtier?

Also, why were so many French riders listed?
I assume they make up the majority of the peloton?
This is a list of how many riders listed by country:

France 35 riders
Spain 32
Italy 17
Germany 15
Belgium 13
Australia 11
Great Britain 8
Netherlands 8
USA 8
Russia 6
Switzerland 5
Denmark 5
Slovenia 4
Portugal 3
Austria 3
Belarus 3
Kazakhstan 3
Ukraine 3

Would be interesting to see the Top 3 Dopers by Country.
The "Podium of Dopage" per country if you will....

 

[roundabout]

I wonder whether Aldo Sassi is spinning in his grave, Basso 4, Evans 5 and Wegelius 4, all suspicious.

Uhh, it's actually Basso 3, Evans 4 and Wegelius 3. Not sure why you bumped their numbers up.

 

[therhodeo]

I notice most of the hard men and classics guys are in the bottom. Less reason to dope? More consistent doped levels across the spring? Or truly the badasses of the peloton?

 

[Stingray34]

I thing one thing it sure points at, is that doping is still going on big time.

It is time to have it all made transparent and to publish results online, so we can see who got tested, how many times, what they were tested for and their results, even at the end of the year.

And i say lets start with the French teams, Garmin and Sky since they like to blow their own horn.

But again by the comments coming out of cyclists proves they are not agreeing to transparency, UCI is not transparent and a lot of usual clinic suspects are on the suspicious numbers and some are not, but those that are not, they seem difficult to believe, in particular, Cancellara, Horner and IMO Roche*.

* Why Roche, because his father was a guinea pig of Conconi in the early 90s and never admitted to it. Would he encourage his son to do what it takes, I think so.

Yeah, the problem with the numbers is they are supplied without context. Presumably, or unless the UCI is even more corrupt than we are led to believe, this is why the likes of Barredo, Menchov and Popovych haven't had bio passport cases opened against them. Also, I'm with you with 39-year-old, 10th place in Tour Chris Horner being a zero. I'd really like to know the context on that one.

What's been lost in this expose is the dramatic complexity of haematology; reducing an individual's specific blood profile to a (mostly) single digit number is probably simplifying things a little. I don't say this to mitigate the seriousness of this event at all; The UCI is clearly in a bad place right now and deservedly so. As for the riders, who will prosecute? I don't think having odd blood is a criminal offence and the UCI is doing sweet FA about it.

With regards to Nic Roche, I feel the other way to you: his father's involvement with Conconi sullied the end of his career. I wouldn't be surprised if Papa Roche has counselled sonny to not be like himself and instead stay on the straight and narrow.

Could be and probably am wrong about that, but hey...we live in interesting times, huh?

 

[Benotti69]

Uhh, it's actually Basso 3, Evans 4 and Wegelius 3. Not sure why you bumped their numbers up.

arrrgh i read it wrong D'Oh D'Oh. i'll edit. still suspicious, but not as suspicious, so Aldo will only spin at 500rpm instead of 1000

 

[hrotha]

Definitely not an Astana fan. My handle is ****take which obviously too subtle for you given the Avatar. Cheers.

There's subtlety, and then there's "you need to read people's minds to get it".

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

* Why Roche, because his father was a guinea pig of Conconi in the early 90s and never admitted to it. Would he encourage his son to do what it takes, I think so.

This is one of the most tenuous pieces of reasoning I've seen, even here in the land of tenuous reasoning. Doping is passed in the male line, like medieval land ownership.

 

[maltiv]

If a rider does not even show up on the list, is he cleaner than a zero?
IE, are zero's dirtier?

Also, why were so many French riders listed?
I assume they make up the majority of the peloton?
This is a list of how many riders listed by country:

France 35 riders
Spain 32
Italy 17
Germany 15
Belgium 13
Australia 11
Great Britain 8
Netherlands 8
USA 8
Russia 6
Switzerland 5
Denmark 5
Slovenia 4
Portugal 3
Austria 3
Belarus 3
Kazakhstan 3
Ukraine 3

Would be interesting to see the Top 3 Dopers by Country.
The "Podium of Dopage" per country if you will....

I have no idea what you are talking about, but every rider in the 2010 TDF is on the list.

 

[Astana1]

There's subtlety, and then there's "you need to read people's minds to get it".

My previous Avatar was two bags of blood until Francois made me change it. But if the Hulk racing a bike isn't a tipoff then maybe you should look a little closer next time.

 

[Benotti69]

Yeah, the problem with the numbers is they are supplied without context. Presumably, or unless the UCI is even more corrupt than we are led to believe, this is why the likes of Barredo, Menchov and Popovych haven't had bio passport cases opened against them. Also, I'm with you with 39-year-old, 10th place in Tour Chris Horner being a zero. I'd really like to know the context on that one.

What's been lost in this expose is the dramatic complexity of haematology; reducing an individual's specific blood profile to a (mostly) single digit number is probably simplifying things a little. I don't say this to mitigate the seriousness of this event at all; The UCI is clearly in a bad place right now and deservedly so. As for the riders, who will prosecute? I don't think having odd blood is a criminal offence and the UCI is doing sweet FA about it.

With regards to Nic Roche, I feel the other way to you: his father's involvement with Conconi sullied the end of his career. I wouldn't be surprised if Papa Roche has counselled sonny to not be like himself and instead stay on the straight and narrow.

Could be and probably am wrong about that, but hey...we live in interesting times, huh?

I feel anything UCI related is never what we think, whether we think it is as dirty or as simple. McQ and Hein's (who i believe still has his grubby fingers in the UCI pie)agenda appears to be to run the sport for their sole financial gain. How they do it i haven't got a clue, apart from accepting bribes from teams and race promoters, but it makes stuff like the list very difficult to read and understand.

Papa Roche is not doing too bad for himself. His son grew up in France so might be more French in his cycling than Papa Roche. But Papa Roche would know that Baby Roche aint gonna win a GT clean now is he? I would love to believe he's clean, but can't.

 

[hrotha]

My previous Avatar was two bags of blood until Francois made me change it. But if the Hulk racing a bike isn't a tipoff then maybe you should look a little closer next time.

There's any number of reasons why you'd have the Hulk as your avatar. But have a cookie.

 

[Andynonomous]

My Take.

If you are 6-10 - it is overwhelmingly likely that you dope.

If you are 3-5 - there is a better than 50-50 chance that you dope.

If you are 0-2 - your "handlers" have figured out how to fool the system, or you are clean.

 

[131313]

that'll be the whistle connected to the blood bag then. why doesn't Millar publish his test results to show he's a clean as a F***ing whistle????

you realize that he doesn't actually have access to his test results, right? I'm not sure how he could publish them.

 

[goober]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA Michael Barry as a 0. I stopped reading the list 2 names into the 0's. Then I laughed my *** off when I read France teams had the lowest scores - no shiet sherlocks the riders siuk and have normal physiological capabilities. As for some good riders being very low scored those are testing frequencies and timing. So sad this information got into the public hands and is misinterpreted...

 

[Astana1]

There's any number of reasons why you'd have the Hulk as your avatar. But have a cookie.

Don't get mad at me because it flew over your head. Not my fault you are so short.

 

[ergmonkey]

If I were Andreas Kloden, I'd be pretty disappointed by this list. I mean, Barredo and Popovych get the bragging rights for being Perfect Tens who still aren't suspended but not Klodi??

Kloden is modern cycling's Mr. Teflon. No investigation, no matter how serious, ever seems to stick to this guy. Freiburg? Forget about it. Vienna? Crickets. Astana transfusion equipment? No way.

The guy's been continuously linked to a doping investigation since what? 2005? 2000? Birth? And the guy's enjoying a late 30's renaissance in results. Nobody deserves the 'I'm super-dirty and the authorities can't do a thing about it' award more than Andreas Kloden.

Give the man an honorary Ten, at the least.

 

[Granville57]

Jeezus, I go to sleep and wake up to...35 more pages!!!

Maybe they don't use the clinic way of assessing performance as in "he won, he's a ten". Maybe they correlate performance and blood profile? And that's how performance is included?

Wait a minute! We're NOT a sanctioning body in here?

this is the problem for all the riders. we have no idea what the basis is for the scoring. Why is Cancellara 0 and why is menchov 10.

Why has no one pondered the possibility that after "10" the meter starts over again at "0" ?

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

I'm willing to buy that Cancellara's 0 might be the result of a very good masking program (the Schleck's are also lower than expected imo), but what about Horner and Roche? Am I to believe that those two are on a far better program than every GT contender out there, including Horner's team mates Brajkovic, Armstrong, Klöden, Leipheimer, Popovych etc? Cos that seems really far fetched. I suppose they might just be severly undertested though.

 

[GoGarmin]

Don't get mad at me because it flew over your head. Not my fault you are so short.

Most reasonable people would conclude from your user name that you're an Astana fan. Especially when there's an option to turn off avatars.

 

[hrotha]

I'm willing to buy that Cancellara's 0 might be the result of a very good masking program (the Schleck's are also lower than expected imo), but what about Horner and Roche? Am I to believe that those two are on a far better program than every GT contender out there, including Horner's team mates Brajkovic, Armstrong, Klöden, Leipheimer, Popovych etc? Cos that seems really far fetched. I suppose they might just be severly undertested though.

Maybe we should start entertaining the notion that a top 10-15 is possible while clean. I know it's counterintuitive to believe the same Horner who did a Face Hell Turn after joining Astana would be clean and getting his best results at 39-40, but in the interest of science it shouldn't be ruled out.

 

[andy1234]

that'll be the whistle connected to the blood bag then. why doesn't Millar publish his test results to show he's a clean as a F***ing whistle????

Because internet experts who believe that post count = expertise, would only get themselves into a frenzy over what they mean.

This forum is awash with posters claiming they believe in what is right and just, and claim it is the only reason they b1tch so much.

Well, having bull**** figures released, that slander potentially clean athletes, is just plain wrong.

So where are the crusaders, for what is right and just, now?

 

[DirtyWorks]

Don't forget that 2 weeks ago McQuaid threatened the teams with the release of the BioPassport data if they did not stop hassling him

After checking the list, note the circumstances. The list is prepared for anti-doping officials by the UCI.
Note how the list is weighted. Riders with less impact to the franchise are consistently ranked lower. Menchov's ranking blows my theory, but he's the only exception.

My crackpot theory is there are other records internal to the UCI, populated with testing data that have very different ranking. Given the enormous contradictions in doping actions at the UCI, a second set of records is likely to exist.

 

[gobuck]

There aren't any truly clean riders.

 

[Granville57]

Bingo! I suspected as much was being kept by the UCI anyway. The threat was confirmation. What will be interesting to see is how much is revealed versus just adding more questions.

Leaving the Hog & the Shack hanging out to dry would make sense if Paddy was looking for revenge. But JV looks pretty good on the "team scale" and he's been yanking the UCI's chain for quite awhile.

Plus, this list only makes the UCI look bad for NOT testing Popo.

So what's the game here?

 

[Astana1]

Most reasonable people would conclude from your user name that you're an Astana fan. Especially when there's an option to turn off avatars.

Reasonable? In this place? Bold assumption. Today in here I learned that zero is a bigger number than 10.