UCI in a panic over document in Friday's L'Equipe

[Astana1]

well, a guy under federal investigation for weapons grade doping misdemeanors got a 4, the winner who actually tested positive got a 5, and some guys were ranked high as a total surprise to everyone as far as reputation / hearsay / evidence is concerned - so I'd say the chances are it is based on blood values.

If anything, those with a reputation such as Lance, AC have been bumped down not up.

And it's probably not based on anything else. Sure.

 

[GoGarmin]

Bravo to L'Equipe for releasing this list.

The more light of day that gets shined onto the UCI and its practices, the better. And between pressure from the press and Novitzky, I have faith that we're going to see some changes for the better (i.e. openness, honesty) at the UCI.

 

[hrotha]

And it's probably not based on anything else. Sure.

Are you mad because Astana scored badly?

 

[Hawkwood]

Does anyone believe this list is soley based on blood tests or non testing. I imagine Roche got a 0 because his agent is a McQuaid. Horner suddenly discovering the legs of a rider 10years younger on a 0, how? Cancellara 0???

I think we can take the list with the usual UCI pinch of salt until we see what the figures* are actually based on.

*Figures may be based on $$$$s.

Nice catch. So now we need to add a McQuad multiplier, i.e. TDF 2010 result x UCI number x McQuad index =...

 

[roundabout]

I demand a recount.

 

[Oldman]

There are zeroes that should be tens and 4's that should be zeroes. It just means some of the guys are better at administration of their programs than others which is just what most folks feel the Biopassport promotes. It should be better defined as: The Stupid Index.

 

[131313]

One person on the list I'm disappointed about is Tony Martin. I mean, he's a ****ing police officer...

Yeah, because they don't dope.

Oh, wait...

http://articles.philly.com/2011-04-27/news/29478768_1_distribution-ring-steroids-indictment

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=3745740&page=1

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/7362041/Police-officer-jailed-for-dealing-steroids.html

Those guys are as bad as cyclists! cyclist+police officer=perfect storm?

That said, the list is certainly surprising. Horner and Cancellara clean, Tony Martin and Linus questionable?

As far as the team rankings, I guess this gives new meaning to "Team High Road".

I know this list disappoints a lot of people, but I think it's pretty telling. And I think E'Quipe's interpretation of the numbers is probably pretty accurate as well. I certainly don't think that "a 2 and a 10 are pretty much the same" as one poster suggested. That's ridiculous. The trends seem to tell the story: the French teams and Garmin are by and large clean, The Shack, Astana and Caisse are dirty. No real surprise.

To those who suggest that the list just demonstrates who's good at doping, I'd have to ask if they really believe that the French teams are the doping experts and The Shack are really poor at it? That doesn't hold much water with me.

For me, Mark Renshaw is the biggest disappointment on the list. I was really hoping he'd be at 12 or so, just because he's such an a-hole. Oh well.

 

[Epicycle]

The mean is pretty low, that may tell us something about doping techniques used today and how efficient they are. Since a 5 is well above the mean does that imply that a rider at 5 is doing much more than his average peer or should we look at it as an absolute scale?

Tough to draw too many specific conclusions without knowing how many times each rider was tested. Too bad we don't have that info. From reading the IO report though, it makes me feel like guys with 1's and 0's have probably been tested a lot. When I was in college I ran track and cross country for a school that had a big-time football program. The minor sport guys were always greatly over-represented when it came to NCAA mandated random testing. The school would pick us to be tested instead of jeopardizing any of their precious football players.

As someone else alluded to, the question about Popo at 10 is...how jacked was he when he rode for Landbouwkrediet-Colnago? I'm just glad the guy survived.

And we don't know if any riders have been protected in some way. And, if I remember right, the panel of experts that review the bio-passport info don't know the names of the riders whose test results they are reviewing. So how is the computer system set up? Is there a master key that has to be used to match numbers with names like is used with the sample testing? Is this mentioned in the article? That could be important in guessing who leaked the list and is an obvious way to monkey with it.

 

[andy1234]

Hincapie, F.Schleck, LL Sanchez, Sergio Paulinho, Joaquin Rodriguez, Andy Schleck, Charles Wegelius, Lance Armstrong, Janez Brajkovic and Samuel Sanchez are all pretty clean riders.

Well that's good to know.
I'm glad this information has been released. Very useful. Very valid.

Still, don't let that stop you whacking off over it.

 

[0091paddy]

Hilarious how serious some people are taking this.

 

[BullsFan22]

Pity for Menchov. Not that I didn't think he wasn't suspicious in any shape or form, but I would have thought he'd be around 4-6, not 9!!! Cancellara, Horner=0? OK.....

 

[Benotti69]

I thing one thing it sure points at, is that doping is still going on big time.

It is time to have it all made transparent and to publish results online, so we can see who got tested, how many times, what they were tested for and their results, even at the end of the year.

And i say lets start with the French teams, Garmin and Sky since they like to blow their own horn.

But again by the comments coming out of cyclists proves they are not agreeing to transparency, UCI is not transparent and a lot of usual clinic suspects are on the suspicious numbers and some are not, but those that are not, they seem difficult to believe, in particular, Cancellara, Horner and IMO Roche*.

* Why Roche, because his father was a guinea pig of Conconi in the early 90s and never admitted to it. Would he encourage his son to do what it takes, I think so.

 

[Benotti69]

Hilarious how serious some people are taking this.

you mean L'Equipe? yeah those jokers, hey!

 

[BullsFan22]

Another thing, I can assume that the French teams/athletes are seriously walking the walk and are serious about keeping it clean, but only Moreau and some relative unknown are the only ones 'suspicious!?!' OK to that too, but the French are widely known to be pretty arrogant and close minded, with plenty of bias.

 

[Oldman]

The mean is pretty low, that may tell us something about doping techniques used today and how efficient they are. Since a 5 is well above the mean does that imply that a rider at 5 is doing much more than his average peer or should we look at it as an absolute scale?

Tough to draw too many specific conclusions without knowing how many times each rider was tested. Too bad we don't have that info. From reading the IO report though, it makes me feel like guys with 1's and 0's have probably been tested a lot. When I was in college I ran track and cross country for a school that had a big-time football program. The minor sport guys were always greatly over-represented when it came to NCAA mandated random testing. The school would pick us to be tested instead of jeopardizing any of their precious football players.

As someone else alluded to, the question about Popo at 10 is...how jacked was he when he rode for Landbouwkrediet-Colnago? I'm just glad the guy survived.

And we don't know if any riders have been protected in some way. And, if I remember right, the panel of experts that review the bio-passport info don't know the names of the riders whose test results they are reviewing. So how is the computer system set up? Is there a master key that has to be used to match numbers with names like is used with the sample testing? Is this mentioned in the article? That could be important in guessing who leaked the list and is an obvious way to monkey with it.

You asked all the right questions and we shouldn't be taking this too seriously. There is at least one rider with a zero that is in no way clean. Period.
Anyone with a ranking higher than 4 is just not smart enough.

 

[Escarabajo]

Does anyone believe this list is soley based on blood tests or non testing. I imagine Roche got a 0 because his agent is a McQuaid. Horner suddenly discovering the legs of a rider 10years younger on a 0, how? Cancellara 0???

I think we can take the list with the usual UCI pinch of salt until we see what the figures* are actually based on.

*Figures may be based on $$$$s.

+1.

This plus what Pedaling Squares said.

Testing frequency could be a big issue here. We have to be cautious. If Cancellara had a zero and not a single blood test was performed on him that means that he would still carry the torch for clean rider after the tour. One single blood test can throw him off completely. Just saying.

 

[Benotti69]

Another thing, I can assume that the French teams/athletes are seriously walking the walk and are serious about keeping it clean, but only Moreau and some relative unknown are the only ones 'suspicious!?!' OK to that too, but the French are widely known to be pretty arrogant and close minded, with plenty of bias.

can we all play to stereotypes on this thread about all the nationalities on the list or just the french????

widely known that there only 2 things to come out Texas, steers and queers.....dont make it true.

 

[Gloin22]

Sky and Millar quick to respond.

Sky's Wiggins received a five and Thomas a six.

"When they say G's [Thomas - ed.] ranked six, if they are using the biological passport information, that implies that G's under suspicion. From my side of things, knowing G, I'd say he's certainly not under any suspicion from the team or me. i.e., he doesn't take anything," Sky's sports director, Sean Yates told Cycling Weekly.

"It's tarnishing the reputation of riders like G, teams like us and it brings into question the whole credibility of the UCI. Sometimes there's stuff leaked, and it's crap, but you can only go by what you hear. Hearing this kind of stuff is not good, it makes us look like amateurs."

Yates said he's unsure if team principal, David Brailsford has already been in contact with the UCI about the list.

"Having that stuff leaked to the press is not good. Once again, the UCI's credibility - if this information is correct - is drawn into question."

Brit David Millar of team Garmin-Cervélo received a four.

"What is this list based on?" Millar told Cycling Weekly. "Look at some of the guys there: I can tell you for starters, I'm clean as a f***ing whistle.

"I understand if I'm number four because of all my misdemeanours in the past, done on suspicions from my past actions. The only injections I've ever had are from the UCI, so it's a bit mad that I'm a four."

"This list clearly shows it's a far from perfect model. What's going on? That's two things: the UCI, somebody, people, need to be fired for this, and a major investigation needs to be going on into what exactly they are doing regarding the biological passport, how they actually came up with this list."

 

[maltiv]

+1.

This plus what Pedaling Squares said.

Testing frequency could be a big issue here. We have to be cautious. If Cancellara had a zero and not a single blood test was performed on him that means that he would still carry the torch for clean rider after the tour. One single blood test can throw him off completely. Just saying.

No, they are based on tests prior to the TDF. Cancellara should (based on his spring) have been the most tested cyclist in that period.

 

[Escarabajo]

The mean is pretty low, that may tell us something about doping techniques used today and how efficient they are. Since a 5 is well above the mean does that imply that a rider at 5 is doing much more than his average peer or should we look at it as an absolute scale?

....

A 5 could mean that the athlete or his doctor is not doing his homework of covering up properly.

 

[Benotti69]

Sky and Millar quick to respond.

that'll be the whistle connected to the blood bag then. why doesn't Millar publish his test results to show he's a clean as a F***ing whistle????

 

[Astana1]

Hincapie, F.Schleck, LL Sanchez, Sergio Paulinho, Joaquin Rodriguez, Andy Schleck, Charles Wegelius, Lance Armstrong, Janez Brajkovic and Samuel Sanchez are all pretty clean riders.

Well that's good to know.
I'm glad this information has been released. Very useful. Very valid.

Still, don't let that stop you whacking off over it.

This is what I am saying. Clean guys are going to get bent over, over this.

People are already selectively believing this thing anyway. This thing is like a cycling Rohrshach test.

 

[Oldman]

can we all play to stereotypes on this thread about all the nationalities on the list or just the french????

widely known that there only 2 things to come out Texas, steers and queers.....dont make it true.

I don't think the latter "come out" in Texas. They move somewhere else to avoid severe kicking by crackers.

 

[Astana1]

Are you mad because Astana scored badly?

Definitely not an Astana fan. My handle is ****take which obviously too subtle for you given the Avatar. Cheers.

 

[Benotti69]

I wonder whether Aldo Sassi is spinning in his grave, Basso 3, Evans 4 and Wegelius 3, all suspicious.


Edited, Gave the wrong numbers.