UCI: Italian Giro top favourite will be Bio-pass exposed in hours

[Anonymous]

twitter from Greg Henderson
Greghenderson1 So who won the giro last year?
less than a minute ago via Twitterrific

Has he forgotten menchov or should we read something into that

 

[Willy_Voet]

well...we're still waiting to find out who the 'Russian' is...

 

[Anonymous]

well...we're still waiting to find out who the 'Russian' is...

that hendo tweet has REALLY got me thinking. If not, thats a brave allegation, or just carelessness

 

[theyoungest]

that hendo tweet has REALLY got me thinking. If not, thats a brave allegation, or just carelessness

It wouldn't be the biggest surprise in the history of cycling, but I doubt there's more to it than Henderson forgetting who actually won the thing.

 

[BroDeal]

that hendo tweet has REALLY got me thinking. If not, thats a brave allegation, or just carelessness

It would explain why Menchov totally sucked at the Tour. If the UCI warned people before last year's Tour then it would explain why several riders performed very unexpecedly. Menchov, Sastre, Evans...

 

[luckyboy]

Exciting times. Chapeau to the UCI for getting a big name..

Not surprised by Valjavec. He rode for Phonak, didn't he?

 

[JayZee]

It looks like Pellizotti and the others are now in an inescapable limbo constructed by the UCI. They have to explain their blood values or get banned, but there is no scientific study that has been made to show what normal values for an elite cyclist should be. In effect they will be forced to prove their innocence. This seems like it could run into problems if a conviction is taken up with a real court. It should be the UCI that has to prove that their blood values show clear proof of doping. If their lawyers sucessfully argue that the proof of doping is insufficient or the case is legally flawed then riders will likely remain in limbo. Even if they beat the case, they could very well end up like Sevilla and Mancebo.

This is exactly the problem I foresee. Seems that there will be a fair bit of room to argue in these cases as to what is and what is not sufficient evidence of doping. As for a study, I thought there has been at least one small study regarding blood values for elite cyclist. Of course I would be very interested to see the results of a larger, more in depth study of the issue. Anyone know if such a study is being done?

 

[Eyjafjallajokull]

Well not too surprised by Pellizotti being named. I remember that climb near the end of the Giro where Armstrong tried to attack. He managed to get a little bit up the road closer to Pellizotti. Pellizotti looked down the mountain at him and simply kicked again like he was on another cycling planet, and that was that.

After that it's no wonder Armstrong may have thought he needed to blood dope at the TdF to stay with the leaders.

 

[BroDeal]

I think this whole thing looks somewhat suspicious. McQuaid as good as promised that there would be no positives at the Tour for years to come. That was done after the management of the ASO was replaced and reconcilliation talks were held with the UCI. The first real cases for the passport just happen to be for the Giro. Me being cynical, I suspect that the UCI has decided to keep cycling's premier event "clean" while using lesser races to remove those who go over the top in their doping. This would imply that a rider who only piles on the major doping during the TdF would be safe.

The message of this would seem to be, "You can dope but don't overdo it."

Still I would like to see a case against a rider on a team that has always seemed to be protected. Where are the cases against a rider on Saxo or RS or QS?

 

[Barrus]

This is exactly the problem I foresee. Seems that there will be a fair bit of room to argue in these cases as to what is and what is not sufficient evidence of doping. As for a study, I thought there has been at least one small study regarding blood values for elite cyclist. Of course I would be very interested to see the results of a larger, more in depth study of the issue. Anyone know if such a study is being done?

An it is exactly the reason why I am excited for the trials which will come from this. They will probably go for the Swiss judicial system, therefore it will be in french and is possible of being followed and especially when it comes for the European Court for Human Rights it will become very interesting and will set a huge precedent no matter what the outcome will be. However this will all probably take longer then a possible ban will amount to and it is even possible to ensure a large financial drain on the UCI, especially if ie Pelizotti will be proven right, a substantial claim for damages will probably be put against the UCI, by both Pelli and Liquigas.

(it's always great times for a law student/interestee and a cycling fan, but then there is always something legal happening in cycling, see the transfer problem of last year, Valverde's case and many other things)

 

[theyoungest]

ISD has issued the following statement:

Carlo Scognamiglio, this year in the team of ISD, has never received any communication regarding the possibility of irregularities in his passport, nor has the team.

This reopens speculation about the second Italian rider! Whoopee! Will it be Ballan after all?

 

[hfer07]

I'm afraid you need to reread it -it wasn't a great sentence. Pellizotti got the letter two months ago along with other riders who had abnormal values. His abnormal values date back to the 2009 Tour, but he had no idea they were watching him. So they sent out letters, had to allow 30 days for responses, had to have any responses evaluated, and it's today.

So the warning really was issued a month ago?
but you're right- I misread it-although I'm still a bit troubled by the time gap between the TDF & the Giro used by the UCI to get Pellizotti busted...

 

[Eyjafjallajokull]

Still I would like to see a case against a rider on a team that has always seemed to be protected. Where are the cases against a rider on Saxo or RS or QS?

A RadioShack rider tested positive just over a week ago.

 

[Hugh Januss]

After that it's no wonder Armstrong may have thought he needed to blood dope at the TdF to stay with the leaders.

Aha ha ha haha. False justification much?

 

[BroDeal]

However this will all probably take longer then a possible ban will amount to...

There is a major problem. The Hamilton and FLandis cases took nearly two years to be finally resolved. Those were regular doping cases, although in Hamilton's case there was a new test that was being used. How long would it take for Pellizotti, who has money to defend himself, to go through the regular cycling channels and then take the matter through the regular courts. He is 32 years old right now. Even if he wins, he will be too old to race.

@ brodeal: those chances to me are: slim, non-existant and slim

I am just wondering at what point do non-Spanish federations decide they want to push back. Why should all their riders be removed from the sport while the Spaniards protect their own, who win every other stage race?

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

So what? Just because The Softie doesn't have a cloud of specultion hanging above him doesn't make him a confirmed non-doper. He just hasn't been a serious target yet because he hasn't won anything big.

Rabobank doesn't exactly have a spotless reputation now, does it?

Exactly, which is what I meant with 'It would not be a complete suprise'

There are guys getting caught which were nowhere near my own 'suspicious' list like Frei and Prado... so how would Gesink then be a suprise

 

[icefire]

An it is exactly the reason why I am excited for the trials which will come from this. They will probably go for the Swiss judicial system, therefore it will be in french and is possible of being followed and especially when it comes for the European Court for Human Rights it will become very interesting and will set a huge precedent no matter what the outcome will be. However this will all probably take longer then a possible ban will amount to and it is even possible to ensure a large financial drain on the UCI, especially if ie Pelizotti will be proven right, a substantial claim for damages will probably be put against the UCI, by both Pelli and Liquigas.

(it's always great times for a law student/interestee and a cycling fan, but then there is always something legal happening in cycling, see the transfer problem of last year, Valverde's case and many other things)

Is there any reason why these cases should be heard by a public Justice Court (Fed Swiss Court or Euro Court for Human Rights) instead of the sports justice court? (Circus of Arbitration for Sport)

 

[BroDeal]

A RadioShack rider tested positive just over a week ago.

Fuyu Li hardly qualifies, trollboy.

All those teams are stacked with riders who are putting on unbelievable performances. In RS's case, the riders are past the age when they should be on the downward slope of their careers, yet they keep getting better and better. It is ridiculous. The CSC/Saxo riders have been as suspicious as anyone for years. Riders like Devolder appear to only be able to race for two or three weeks out of the year.

 

[Barrus]

Is there any reason why these cases should be heard by a public Justice Court (Fed Swiss Court or Euro Court for Human Rights) instead of the sports justice court? (Circus of Arbitration for Sport)

Don't you think they will appeal for public justice courts as well? The sports justice courts are still obliged to maintain human rights, such as the right to privacy and the right to a fair hearing. If Pelli feels these are not adhered to in the sports justice courts he will make the case for the public courts, just as Valverde tried to do, if I am correct. In all probability especially the right to a fair trial, due to the type of test might be taken into question, same with the right to privacy

 

[Eyjafjallajokull]

Aha ha ha haha. False justification much?

It's a logical theory. It doesn't seem LA planned on blood doping at the tour given he already promised to put his blood profile online. His Giro numbers seemed clean. I can see how the performance from Pellizotti on the stage that LA tried to have a go at, and the general performance of people like Diluca who was juiced on CERA, would have made some small doping inevitable for Armstrong come July. He would have discovered that the game was still on at the GC level.

You disagree?

 

[Eyjafjallajokull]

Fuyu Li hardly qualifies, trollboy.

All those teams are stacked with riders who are putting on unbelievable performances. In RS's case, the riders are past the age when they should be on the downward slope of their careers, yet they keep getting better and better. It is ridiculous. The CSC/Saxo riders have been as suspicious as anyone for years. Riders like Devolder appear to only be able to race for two or three weeks out of the year.

Well Armstrong isn't getting any better so I presume you're refering to Chris Horner. Some people think he's just had a lot of bad luck in his career. The fact that Fuyu Li has tested positive - the first current teammate of Armstrong to do so during his entire career as I recall - does seem to indicate there is no special treatment.

 

[BroDeal]

It's a logical theory. It doesn't seem LA planned on blood doping at the tour given he already promised to put his blood profile online. His Giro numbers seemed clean. I can see how the performance from Pellizotti on the stage that LA tried to have a go at, and the general performance of people like Diluca who was juiced on CERA, would have made some small doping inevitable for Armstrong come July. He would have discovered that the game was still on at the GC level.

You disagree?

And thus BPC's trolling begins in earnest...

 

[El Oso]

Is there any reason why these cases should be heard by a public Justice Court (Fed Swiss Court or Euro Court for Human Rights) instead of the sports justice court? (Circus of Arbitration for Sport)

Most likely no. Flandis tried to a certain extent tried but failed. At least as how this would apply to the US legal system, there is (or should be) a mandatory arbitration provision in the agreement with US Cycling, USADA, and/or WADA. If I recall correctly, Flandis tried, after the ruling, to take it to court by claiming one of the arbitrators was an interested party (therfore not neutral) but failed.

However, this should be different in countries where doping is a crime (a least one worth prosecuting). There the case would be brought by a public court.

 

[Barrus]

There is a major problem. The Hamilton and FLandis cases took nearly two years to be finally resolved. Those were regular doping cases, although in Hamilton's case there was a new test that was being used. How long would it take for Pellizotti, who has money to defend himself, to go through the regular cycling channels and then take the matter through the regular courts. He is 32 years old right now. Even if he wins, he will be too old to race.

this is especially why I believe that if Pelizotti wins and prior to his win in the courts other cases are brought up on the same set of arguments as well, the UCI might well be in dire financial straits. Pelizotti alone could bleed them dry (well not totally dry, but you catch my drift), firstly with the legal fees and subsequently with any damages which he will be awarded.

 

[Eyjafjallajokull]

..........

Why is it okay for you to post a conspiracy theory about the UCI using the Giro to protect the tour, and wrongly state that RadioShack have not been targeted, but when I have a theory it's trolling?

If you disagree with my theory then say so. Don't drag threads into meaningless "troll" name calling. Everybody hates that.