" uciic " ? Gone ?

[Dear Wiggo]

I haven't read the Brailsford comments yet, but there is a more practical difficulty for him with an amnesty.

If a rider or staff member confessess in front of a T&R commission, whether for doping offences before or during their time at sky, it will be morally impossible for Sky to fire them.

Exactly! *dance* *dance* *dance* *dance* *dance* *dance* *dance* *dance* *dance* *dance* *dance* *dance* *dance* *dance* *dance*

 

[Dr. Maserati]

The delay in providing the 16 binders to the UCIIC was a big issue at the hearing. Eventually the UCI lawyers were effectively forced to promise to hand them over "today".

My take is that the UCIIC effectively were holding a gun to the heads of the UCI because of the implicit threat of resigning if the UCI did not agree to some form of T&R or some other ways to get WADA etc involved. The UCI tried to neutralise that threat by asking the UCIIC to stop work, and the UCIIC responded by refusing.

Again, thanks for this insight.

Its amusing to hear that the UCI hire a top QC to frustrate an investigation they set up and in particular to suggest they are too poor to have a T&R.

 

[Tinman]

Now this is me in tinfoil modus, as I'm not sure of the current stance of the National unions. Perhaps something has recently changed what I'm not aware of:

My impression is that the National Unions don't really want to pursue this. If we look at the KNWB and BWB we see only extremely belatedly some research into the ton of rumours that have been around since Festina.

The fact that Rabo wasn't dismantled after it's management was involved in whereabouts fraud is shocking. The Belgians are belatedly researching Leinders, but they have been okay with Ibarguen at Lotto. For that matter, when Boonen all those years ago in a public outburst admitted almost everyone used Epo there was enough grounds to turn Quickstep inside out.

We know the Spanish Union doesn't cooperate or largely feels powerless.

The French have a lot of rethorics, but Dr. Menuet is still with a team.

Besides USADA I can only think of the Italians who are remotely anti doping.

Every other union is acting rather reluctantly if acting at all.

The national unions will move when their national public gets critical of them, ie when the national sport becomes a mockery. That is increasingly happening. Whether the numbers will be sufficient to force a resignation is another matter. Part of the challenge is that cycling seems more popular than ever; the Lance story of the past 6 months seems to have attracted media coverage and more people out there supporting the events. This week's Tour down Under has received huge public interest...

In parallel to the national feds getting restless, Pat is rapidly running out of friends. His approach to managing cycling has become clear over the past year for all to see (before that only a few Clinic members were cottoned on). It is very telling to see his own UCIIC turn against him now.

And IOC is also getting restless...

In short, it is clear to all that Pat's position is untenable. What we need now is something to force the change, eg. a peloton go slow for a critical day, to show the cycling world that the riders have had enough also.

But what of succession planning. Would Cookson be any better?... Who is lobbying the national fed members behind the scenes...

 

[Dr. Maserati]

The national unions will move when their national public gets critical of them, ie when the national sport becomes a mockery. That is increasingly happening. Whether the numbers will be sufficient to force a resignation is another matter. Part of the challenge is that cycling seems more popular than ever; the Lance story of the past 6 months seems to have attracted media coverage and more people out there supporting the events. This week's Tour down Under has received huge public interest...

Sorry, but that quite a contradiction there - if the sport is becoming more popular then the Nat Unions will be happy to do nothing.

In parallel to the national feds getting restless, Pat is rapidly running out of friends. His approach to managing cycling has become clear over the past year for all to see (before that only a few Clinic members were cottoned on). It is very telling to see his own UCIIC turn against him now.

And IOC is also getting restless...

In short, it is clear to all that Pat's position is untenable. What we need now is something to force the change, eg. a peloton go slow for a critical day, to show the cycling world that the riders have had enough also.

Quite frankly, the peloton have zero impact on the UCI committees or Hein/Pat.
The UCI were quite happy to move on, and Pat/Hein would be busy ensuring his re-election. But the public disquiet as well as pretty big players like WADA, CCN etc looking on its forced the Management Comm. to act.

But what of succession planning. Would Cookson be any better?... Who is lobbying the national fed members behind the scenes...

He seems ok, and has been vocal and critical at meetingt - but it isn't really about who takes charge - the entire system needs to be overhauled and more transparency needs to be applied.

 

[GreasyMonkey]

The reason why I say they (Hein/Pat) are under pressure from the management Committee (MgtCm) is that when it was last convened it was the MgtCm got Pat/Hein to drop their lawsuit against Kimmage.
That was big - because only a few days before Pat was adamant it would continue.

It was also the MgtCm idea to set up the UCIIC in the first place.

Previous to this P&H had control and could delay & dilute things enough and keep the troops happy - now they are all under scrutiny and the MgtCm getting vocal.

Things are getting harder, now that P&H have lost Mike Turter & his puppy dog-like aquiescence, replaced by Tracey Gaudry as Oceania president.
Hopefully similar changes happen elsewhere, increasing the heat on that pair of clowns.

 

[Tinman]

Sorry, but that quite a contradiction there - if the sport is becoming more popular then the Nat Unions will be happy to do nothing.

No, but you don't seem to want to get it or simply don't. There is popularity and there is doping controversy turning the sport into a joke. Not the same

Quite frankly, the peloton have zero impact on the UCI committees or Hein/Pat.

As above, you don't get it. It's always been about public perception. That's the power the riders have but they are to fragmented and Bugno not a leader.

He seems ok, and has been vocal and critical at meetingt - but it isn't really about who takes charge - the entire system needs to be overhauled and more transparency needs to be applied.

Agreed, but change will not come with Pat, so he is the first step required.

 

[weeniebeenie]

Transcript:

http://www.uciic.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Transcript-of-Procedural-Hearing-25-January1.pdf

 

[Grandillusion]

Transcript:

http://www.uciic.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Transcript-of-Procedural-Hearing-25-January1.pdf

Thankyou WB.

Brailsford seems not to have read it.

 

[sniper]

yes, thanks weeniebeenie.

Mr. Morpuss:

So far as the disclosure goes, we have yet to
receive any documents from the UCI. Although some were
promised earlier in the month, they have yet to be
forthcoming.

Mr. Mill's words are an excercise in stalling.

 

[DirtyWorks]

The national unions will move when their national public gets critical of them.

Not in the U.S. The quick summary is the federation is not democratic. Direction is controlled by board members and protected by a monopoly granted to USA Cycling and other Olympic sports.

http://redkiteprayer.com/2012/12/the-explainer-can-reform-begin-at-home/

 

[DirtyWorks]

Velonews reporting the independent commission has been disbanded.

I don't understand the following paragraph. It's as if the Louisville meeting has already occured.

Following those discussions, McQuaid said, the UCI Management Committee, which meets Friday at the elite cyclocross world championships in Louisville, Kentucky, decided to disband the commission

avoid “six-figure legal fees and other running costs” as the panel was scheduled to meet Thursday in London.

I think we can all agree the fees would be generated to cover Hein and Pat's corruption. UCI was asked to produce documents and got away with giving none.

Now Pat and Hein are trying for the Truth and Reconcilliation Vrijman report.

Lets see how many weeks it takes the UCI to frustrate WADA into giving up.

 

[Benotti69]

Well that ended as expected.

Will the T&R be any different? Nope.

I wonder will the sports pages report on this.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

It could be time for Hein and Phat to bring out the expensive bottles, unless we have a bit of revolt in the management meeting.

 

[hrotha]

It's baffling that they can do whatever the hell they want, mostly unchallenged.

 

[thehog]

What’s Brailsford going to do now? He hates T&R. He’s a hater of the truth.

 

[Joachim]

Guess you and he have something in common then

 

[H2OUUP2]

Lets see how many weeks it takes the UCI to frustrate WADA into giving up.

That pretty much sums it up. For a second there I actually thought some good may come from this........Once the UCI started to frustrate WADA, you could see the writing on the wall. Now this...... I don't understand how these men stay where they are.

 

[thehog]

What’s Brailsford going to do now? He hates T&R. He’s a hater of the truth.

I still can't see anybody bothering to turn up to the TRc.

Jorge Jackse will be there. But that's about it. What current day cyclist would bother turning up?

What Doctor or team helper is going to spill the beans!

TRC will go the way off the UCIIC.

10 points UCI! Winner winner come in spinner.

If you've got Brailsford pressuring riders not to speak then no one is going to talk.

 

[MarkvW]

Obviously some UCI boardmembers who once wanted the Commission have now changed their minds, and have made the UCI look even worse in the process. Those people are probably very unhappy campers now. Maybe there will soon be a cosmetic leadership change.

What a filthy cesspool!

 

[peterst6906]

Pat and Hein are unbelievable. Blame the scrapping of the IC on WADA and USADA.

I wish someone could step in an get rid of them:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/uci-to-disband-independent-commission

 

[cathulu]

It is very difficult to sanitize files, there is always some reference somewhere that somebody missed that will show files deleted, letters lost, correspondence missing, etc. A forensic review can find the evidence of nefarious shredding.

UCI couldn't clean it satisfactorily so better not give the file and can the process. Without a doubt the lawyers too have been going through the files to assist Phat Pat and realised there is no way to sanitize the file satisfactorily. What a freaking joke!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They all look bad with filth and scum dripping from them.

 

[Clausfarre]

It speaks volumes about the UCIIC independency that the organisation they were investigating had the power to shut them down, replacing them with the TRC thingy. Did they reach even one conclusion?

 

[Carols]

It speaks volumes about the UCIIC independency that the organisation they were investigating had the power to shut them down, replacing them with the TRC thingy. Did they reach even one conclusion?

They never even saw a document!!!!

 

[DirtyWorks]

They never even saw a document!!!!

IMHO, the point is the news was crafted to create the rush to judge the IC as ineffective.

Ideally, the UCI's version is not believed. I think WADA's credibility is sound-enough that when the UCI screws around with them long enough so they quit, this adds pressure.

Pressure to do what? I don't know. This is where CCN could step in, but that would be a miracle.

 

[Morbius]

Lets recap:

UCI were due to present their proposals on T&R to WADA by the beginning of this week at the latest.

The UCIIC wanted evidence that WADA had bought into the UCI proposals for T&R before volunarily suspending activity - and at a serious level, not just in principle. UCIIC were very clearly not just going to take the UCI's word that T&R would go ahead on a sensible timescale and not be stalled by other issues.

UCIIC were also concerned that a broader T&R process would kick the investigation into UCI activity around Armstrong / USPS into the "long grass".

The purpose of the meeting due on Thursday was to review whether WADA and UCI had reached agreement. If there was no agreement, the meeting would continue to look at UCIIC evidence processes.

Now it appears UCI have pulled the plug unilaterally. There is no evidence in their press release that the detailed proposals for T&R have been agreed with WADA, or even presented to them. There is clearly no sign that UCIIC agree with UCI about the ending of the investigation.

I really hope that
1) we get comments from UCIIC commissioners,
2) the press follow up the specific concerns of the UCIIC including about the timing of the process, the commitment of WADA, agreements to fund the process and the continued focus on the behaviour of UCI.