" uciic " ? Gone ?

[Morbius]

On Friday I said this following the public hearing:

UCI raised the cost of the process many times, and said that they would "partly fund" a T&R / amnestry process. This looks to me like the next defensive position for the UCI. They may refuse to go ahead with T&R until there is sufficient funding from other stakeholders.

In the press release last night, the UCI said:

There is still a huge amount to discuss before we can finalise a detailed legal framework, including how such a TRC, which is completely unprecedented in sport, should be funded now that WADA contrary to earlier indications refuses to contribute financially. This is something that will be discussed fully at the management committee meeting on Friday. I would stress that, while I am committed to a TRC, it needs to be a process which is in the best interests of our sport and our federation – and which also does not bankrupt it.

 

[GazelleFormula]

There is still a huge amount to discuss before we can finalise a detailed legal framework, including how such a TRC, which is completely unprecedented in sport, should be funded now that WADA contrary to earlier indications refuses to contribute financially.

Maybe Armstrong wants to make a donation?

 

[sniper]

der Spiegel about disbandment of UCIIC:

UCI continue to do everything to make themselves look ridiculous in the Lance Armstrong doping affair

http://www.spiegel.de/sport/sonst/uci-loest-armstrong-kommission-auf-a-880198.html

 

[msjett]

It would appear that the UCI are ok with being morally bankrupt but being financially bankrupt is just not on...

 

[sniper]

It would appear that the UCI are ok with being morally bankrupt but being financially bankrupt is just not on...

+1

they've already done too much good for too many people.

 

[Benotti69]

It would appear that the UCI are ok with being morally bankrupt but being financially bankrupt is just not on...

Summed up perfectly. This is their modus operandi.

 

[LeakyBoat]

It speaks volumes about the UCIIC independency that the organisation they were investigating had the power to shut them down, replacing them with the TRC thingy. Did they reach even one conclusion?

Yes, that the UCI aren't interested in coming clean.

 

[skippy]

This Comment , posted elsewhere .

" SINCE Cycling Fans have ignored the opportunity to express their support for " Amnesty For Athletes ", why are they surprised when the "phat tag team of Aigle " , cancel their creation , " the Independent Commission "?

Only by showing the UCI Management Committee , that they are in IMMINENT DANGER , of being " Ousted " from their place at the "trough " , will they , WHEN they meet on Friday 1st Feb 2013 , decide to remove phat & heinous , from the management of UCI ! Should they not do this , Members of the UCI Management Committee deserve to be individually held to account by their memberships !

VOTE TODAY :

http://www.change.org/petitions/wada-create-an-amnesty-in-all-sports …
&
http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitio...eans-for-a-sports-amnesty-in-australia#invite …

Show some backbone OR create a better place where " Cycling Fans " can RALLY , and get a result !"

People like @Raceradio & JV , should be consulted and INITIATE an action that WE , ALL can support , TODAY ! time is passing !

 

[JimmyFingers]

WADA reacts to UCI

WADA is dismayed by the press release issued by UCI yesterday, both in terms of its content and its deceit.

The Independent Commission established by UCI was intended to review the allegations of complicity of UCI in the Lance Armstrong doping conspiracy as raised by USADA in its thorough decision. Instead UCI has again chosen to ignore its responsibility to the sport of cycling in completing such an inquiry and has determined to apparently deflect responsibility for the doping problem in its sport to others.

It has decided to terminate its own Commission on the grounds that others refuse to participate, and not for any reason that the Commission was precluded from operating transparently and without fear.

WADA was not part of the decision to establish such a Commission, it was not even consulted. When asked to participate, WADA was at pains to point out the inadequacies of the terms of reference and the timelines. The Commission’s lawyers agreed to point those out in order to remedy them. These were not addressed by UCI or the Commission so WADA declined to participate.

The matters raised by WADA were:

1. The Armstrong case was decided and could not be re-litigated
2.The timelines for the evidence were not realistic
3.The process for hearing witnesses and receiving evidence had to be such that no witness feared retribution
4.The findings of the Commission were to be made public immediately and not subject to any prior scrutiny and editing by UCI
These were all rejected by UCI without discussion.

They were raised again by WADA’s President on Saturday (Jan. 26), and referred to in subsequent correspondence, but seemingly rejected without any reply in the expected fashion. The suggestion was raised by WADA that UCI puts a proposal to address these concerns.

However, instead of any continuing professional dialogue with WADA’s President, UCI has publicly announced by way of a press statement that WADA has agreed to work with it on some form of truth and reconciliation. This is not only wrong in content and process, but again deceitful. The fact is that WADA was awaiting a reply to the correspondence when the UCI release was delivered.

WADA has not and will not consider partaking in any venture with UCI while this unilateral and arrogant attitude continues. There has been no suggestion made by WADA that it will pay for or contribute to any collaborative effort with UCI into investigating UCI’s long-standing problems with doping in its sport and its alleged complicity.

Presuming the Independent Commission will reconvene on Thursday, as arranged, WADA intends to seek an appearance and table correspondence corroborating the facts stated here.

Finally, WADA wants to clarify that contrary to what is stated in the UCI press release WADA has never questioned the integrity and independence of the members of the Commission, but solely the ability of the Commission to work properly under the contract given by UCI to the Commission.

 

[D-Queued]

WADA reacts to UCI

WADA is dismayed by the press release issued by UCI yesterday, both in terms of its content and its deceit.

The Independent Commission established by UCI was intended to review the allegations of complicity of UCI in the Lance Armstrong doping conspiracy as raised by USADA in its thorough decision. Instead UCI has again chosen to ignore its responsibility to the sport of cycling in completing such an inquiry and has determined to apparently deflect responsibility for the doping problem in its sport to others.

It has decided to terminate its own Commission on the grounds that others refuse to participate, and not for any reason that the Commission was precluded from operating transparently and without fear.

WADA was not part of the decision to establish such a Commission, it was not even consulted. When asked to participate, WADA was at pains to point out the inadequacies of the terms of reference and the timelines. The Commission’s lawyers agreed to point those out in order to remedy them. These were not addressed by UCI or the Commission so WADA declined to participate.

The matters raised by WADA were:

1. The Armstrong case was decided and could not be re-litigated
2.The timelines for the evidence were not realistic
3.The process for hearing witnesses and receiving evidence had to be such that no witness feared retribution
4.The findings of the Commission were to be made public immediately and not subject to any prior scrutiny and editing by UCI
These were all rejected by UCI without discussion.

They were raised again by WADA’s President on Saturday (Jan. 26), and referred to in subsequent correspondence, but seemingly rejected without any reply in the expected fashion. The suggestion was raised by WADA that UCI puts a proposal to address these concerns.

However, instead of any continuing professional dialogue with WADA’s President, UCI has publicly announced by way of a press statement that WADA has agreed to work with it on some form of truth and reconciliation. This is not only wrong in content and process, but again deceitful. The fact is that WADA was awaiting a reply to the correspondence when the UCI release was delivered.

WADA has not and will not consider partaking in any venture with UCI while this unilateral and arrogant attitude continues. There has been no suggestion made by WADA that it will pay for or contribute to any collaborative effort with UCI into investigating UCI’s long-standing problems with doping in its sport and its alleged complicity.

Presuming the Independent Commission will reconvene on Thursday, as arranged, WADA intends to seek an appearance and table correspondence corroborating the facts stated here.

Finally, WADA wants to clarify that contrary to what is stated in the UCI press release WADA has never questioned the integrity and independence of the members of the Commission, but solely the ability of the Commission to work properly under the contract given by UCI to the Commission.

Certain bits deserve highlight.

Dave.

 

[thirteen]

CCN Response to UCI Decision to Disband Independent Commission

 

[JimmyFingers]

Certain bits deserve highlight.

Dave.

The UCI seem to be a law to themselves, it surely can only be a matter of time before McQuaid has to go. For all their bluster the sport and their reputation is in tatters in the eyes of the world

 

[Cramps]

Lets recap:

I really hope that
1) we get comments from UCIIC commissioners.

The UCIIC statement suggests that support from "stakeholders" like WADA might have made a difference.

At the least it would have required UCI to create a different excuse for disbanding the IC.

 

[Cramps]

Lets recap:
I really hope that
1) we get comments from UCIIC commissioners,
2) the press follow up the specific concerns of the UCIIC including about the timing of the process, the commitment of WADA, agreements to fund the process and the continued focus on the behaviour of UCI.

Further on the role of WADA, while they severely critcized the terms of reference, it seems obvious now that the IC was successful in creating terms that scared the UCI. Enough to pull the plug on the whole thing.

 

[skippy]

3 threads going on the UCI Smokescreen /bal+sup , yet NOBODY is showing any interest in signing onto the petitions !

Tell me where else ANYONE is showing leadership and i will happily sign on !

Meanwhile here is the wording i used re: WADA :

To:
Wada
Create an " AMNESTY in ALL SPORTS "!

Currently Cycling Sport is in the midst of a SCANDAL the likes of which reflect on ALL who are involved !

Finger pointing will solve nothing !

A NEW START will be required to ensure the FUTURE for those entering this Sport , but , this is not the ONLY SPORT with a problem involving PED Usage !

Allegations regarding Football , Tennis , Weightlifting and Swimming , amongst many other Sports , have been rife for years .

With so much money flooding into Sport from Sponsors , there appears to be an Apathy amongst Sport Administrators ! " Why fix the " problem " when it is not broken " seems to be their attitude as the money flows !

Doping Products , " PEDs ", are supplied and Distributed by Criminal Elements , they are getting FAT on the efforts of the Athletes . Once on the " doping trail " , some Athletes are " black mailed " into continuing !

ATHLETES , both past and Present , deserve an opportunity to come clean , divest themselves of the GUILT that they carry whilst competing , and into their subsequent sporting career or retirement !

WADA is the only Organisation , that ALL National Governments will respect enough , to allow an " Amnesty Period "! That they will need to set aside their " Doping Legislative Penalties " during the specified period is a necessity . " Double Jeopardy " is preventing many Athletes , past or present , who have passed their " SOL (statute of Limitations )" from making any admissions of Misdeeds .

Grass roots support for Athletes is needed and by signing on to this Petition , you could help sway " John Fahey of WADA " , into deciding on adopting action that he has voiced as worthy of consideration ! John Fahey was an Australian Politician before involvement in WADA , he knows the power of the populace , so join me in action that he will understand !

This AMNESTY is for ATHLETES that indulged in SPORTING FRAUD , not for those Criminal Elements that Supplied and Distributed the products ! Let those that Supplied and Distributed and Blackmailed Athletes , face the future in fear of retribution and reduced income and " Victims "!

ACT TODAY for the future of the next Generation of Sports People !
Sincerely,
[Your name]

Several commenters have pointed out , that the Racers are not stepping forward , for the reasons i mentioned in this petition .

UNLESS those on the UCI Management Committee see that people are UNITED in wanting change , they will go to the Friday Meeting and DO NOTHING !

DO YOU WANT CHANGE ?

If yes , ACT !

http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/wada-create-an-amnesty-in-all-sports

If no , go read the tealeaves .

 

[Grandillusion]

Hi Skip, just read your post. My take is that the three main bodies have already separately made extremely powerful & unambiguously condemnatory public statements on last nights developments, and will no doubt be in joint planning talks as we speak.
There's absolutely no doubt in my mind that the UCI are fully aware of the enormous disquiet these recent developments have caused.

Good effort on the lobbying! More power your elbow, hope good things come of all this

 

[DirtyWorks]

3 threads going on the UCI Smokescreen /bal+sup , yet NOBODY is showing any interest in signing onto the petitions !

Tell me where else ANYONE is showing leadership and i will happily sign on !

Skippy,

I get your frustration, but this too shall pass.

1. The UCI is not democratic. It will not respond to reasonable pleas.
2. To borrow another concise post, it's morally bankrupt, but financially managing its priorities well.
3. What happens if the Management Committee actually does something counter to Hein and Pat for the second time in a decade? The federations do not appear democratic. I know the American federation most certainly is not. We get a new Pat and Hein. In fact, either Makarov, or Wiesel would be up for the job. Two guys with money to burn on their hobby that enjoys a worldwide monopoly.

We need the interests of the CCN group to remain intact and take over the managing the sport, but there's no mechanism for that. At all. None. A petition will not change a thing.

My recommendation is to stop buying cycling gear. That will get Shimano, Merida, and Giant screaming at Hein to do something. The triathlon part of the business will soften some of the damage, but not much. Sadly, the LBS is damaged this way.

Another alternative is to keep funding the Kimmage defense fund.

A third alternative is to organize another global cycling federation. 20 years from now, if it can retain moral authority and a safe dope-free competitive environment it can eliminate the UCI. IOC probably won't recognize it, but who cares about them.

The loss of revenue will be felt. Nothing else will.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Skippy,

I get your frustration, but this too shall pass.

1. The UCI is not democratic. It will not respond to reasonable pleas.
2. To borrow another concise post, it's morally bankrupt, but financially managing its priorities well.
3. What happens if the Management Committee actually does something counter to Hein and Pat for the second time in a decade? The federations do not appear democratic. I know the American federation most certainly is not. We get a new Pat and Hein. In fact, either Makarov, or Wiesel would be up for the job. Two guys with money to burn on their hobby that enjoys a worldwide monopoly.

We need the interests of the CCN group to remain intact and take over the managing the sport, but there's no mechanism for that. At all. None. A petition will not change a thing.

My recommendation is to stop buying cycling gear. That will get Shimano, Merida, and Giant screaming at Hein to do something. The triathlon part of the business will soften some of the damage, but not much. Sadly, the LBS is damaged this way.

Another alternative is to keep funding the Kimmage defense fund.

A third alternative is to organize another global cycling federation. 20 years from now, if it can retain moral authority and a safe dope-free competitive environment it can eliminate the UCI. IOC probably won't recognize it, but who cares about them.

The loss of revenue will be felt. Nothing else will.

A bleak picture you paint, amazing how this organisations (i.e. UCI, FIFA, IOC) can hold onto to power and personnel despite huge corruption scandals. That the UCI sets up a 'independent' commission to investigate itself, then disbands is essentially an admission of guilt to me, but they'll be able to spin it, and weather any storm.

Since I generally ride fixed and vintage steel I rarely buy new parts, so at least I'm helping there

 

[DirtyWorks]

A bleak picture you paint, amazing how this organisations (i.e. UCI, FIFA, IOC) can hold onto to power and personnel despite huge corruption scandals.

Specific to cycling, the UCI has a worldwide monopoly on competitive cycling. It makes staying in power easier because what money there is flows through the UCI.

It's a mixed bag. Your LBS probably isn't funding doping. Your steel frame builder probably isn't either. Specific to my federation, USAC, there are some good, honest, people at most levels. Lots of innocents getting swept up into the UCI's mess. It's the money that keeps it all going.

People just aren't ready to be critical of the IOC yet. They are a huge player in this.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Skippy,

I get your frustration, but this too shall pass.

1. The UCI is not democratic. It will not respond to reasonable pleas.
2. To borrow another concise post, it's morally bankrupt, but financially managing its priorities well.
3. What happens if the Management Committee actually does something counter to Hein and Pat for the second time in a decade? The federations do not appear democratic. I know the American federation most certainly is not. We get a new Pat and Hein. In fact, either Makarov, or Wiesel would be up for the job. Two guys with money to burn on their hobby that enjoys a worldwide monopoly.

We need the interests of the CCN group to remain intact and take over the managing the sport, but there's no mechanism for that. At all. None. A petition will not change a thing.

My recommendation is to stop buying cycling gear. That will get Shimano, Merida, and Giant screaming at Hein to do something. The triathlon part of the business will soften some of the damage, but not much.

Another alternative is to keep funding the Kimmage defense fund.

A third alternative is to organize another global cycling federation. 20 years from now, if it can retain moral authority and a safe dope-free competitive environment it can eliminate the UCI. IOC probably won't recognize it, but who cares about them.

The loss of revenue will be felt. Nothing else will.

The blue is only true on a large scale - sponsors withdrawing etc.

The highlighted will not trigger that. I ride, so therefore I need the equipment, even if its not those specific sponsors I do support the sport.
And there are plenty of casual cyclists that unwittingly buy those products.

What will hasten Pat&Heins exist is that they become too toxic for the Management Comm and/or even the IOC.
That is a really tough thing - pretty much unprecedented in an IOC sports, yet they are under considerable pressure.

 

[B_Ugli]

This Comment , posted elsewhere .

" SINCE Cycling Fans have ignored the opportunity to express their support for " Amnesty For Athletes ", why are they surprised when the "phat tag team of Aigle " , cancel their creation , " the Independent Commission "?

Only by showing the UCI Management Committee , that they are in IMMINENT DANGER , of being " Ousted " from their place at the "trough " , will they , WHEN they meet on Friday 1st Feb 2013 , decide to remove phat & heinous , from the management of UCI ! Should they not do this , Members of the UCI Management Committee deserve to be individually held to account by their memberships !

VOTE TODAY :

http://www.change.org/petitions/wada-create-an-amnesty-in-all-sports …
&
http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitio...eans-for-a-sports-amnesty-in-australia#invite …

Show some backbone OR create a better place where " Cycling Fans " can RALLY , and get a result !"

People like @Raceradio & JV , should be consulted and INITIATE an action that WE , ALL can support , TODAY ! time is passing !

I would go a step further and simply urge all cyclists to issue an ultimatum to the UCI and their National Federations - remove Pat and Verbruggen by December 31st 2013 or we will not renew our membership. Surely this can be set up and publicised online the same way as the kimmage campaign?

 

[JimmyFingers]

The blue is only true on a large scale - sponsors withdrawing etc.

The highlighted will not trigger that. I ride, so therefore I need the equipment, even if its not those specific sponsors I do support the sport.
And there are plenty of casual cyclists that unwittingly buy those products.

What will hasten Pat&Heins exist is that they become too toxic for the Management Comm and/or even the IOC.
That is a really tough thing - pretty much unprecedented in an IOC sports, yet they are under considerable pressure.

Sponsorship money is presumably key, maintaining that revenue stream maintains the status quo. It is clear that when that stream is damaged it is other parts of the sport rather than the flagship pro-tour that feel it most keenly: grassroots racing, junior levels, women's racing. The trickle down revenue is lessened, those sports suffer but the pro-tour can continue in glorious isolation.

You get the sense that for cycling to truely change you need to burn the whole house down, i.e. for that sponsorship to dry up completely, the grassroots to disappear, people stopping buying bikes, young athletes focusing on other sports, only then can we have root and branch reform. Even CCN getting to power might not be enough, and I fear a TRC may only change the outside form of the sport, yet maintain a continuity with cycling's doping past.

Just gut instinct of course, I don't know enough about the worldwide organisations to really know how to effectively change the sport, but I just get the sense it needs to die almost completely to shed it's current corrupt state.

 

[DirtyWorks]

The blue is only true on a large scale - sponsors withdrawing etc.

The highlighted will not trigger that. I ride, so therefore I need the equipment, even if its not those specific sponsors I do support the sport.
And there are plenty of casual cyclists that unwittingly buy those products.

What will hasten Pat&Heins exist is that they become too toxic for the Management Comm and/or even the IOC.
That is a really tough thing - pretty much unprecedented in an IOC sports, yet they are under considerable pressure.

I absolutely agree with you. I just picked an arbitrary place to draw a line. It's not clear to me at all how to transition the UCI to people with interests aligned with CCN.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Sponsorship money is presumably key, maintaining that revenue stream maintains the status quo. It is clear that when that stream is damaged it is other parts of the sport rather than the flagship pro-tour that feel it most keenly: grassroots racing, junior levels, women's racing. The trickle down revenue is lessened, those sports suffer but the pro-tour can continue in glorious isolation.

You get the sense that for cycling to truely change you need to burn the whole house down, i.e. for that sponsorship to dry up completely, the grassroots to disappear, people stopping buying bikes, young athletes focusing on other sports, only then can we have root and branch reform. Even CCN getting to power might not be enough, and I fear a TRC may only change the outside form of the sport, yet maintain a continuity with cycling's doping past.

Just gut instinct of course, I don't know enough about the worldwide organisations to really know how to effectively change the sport, but I just get the sense it needs to die almost completely to shed it's current corrupt state.

The highlighted is not going to happen.
Has recent events (which aren't really new) altered whatever way you are involved with the sport?

As for TRC - it appears people are confusing TRC with the UCIIC. The UCIIC was specific to investigating the activities of the UCI.
The TRC has not actually been agreed yer - but the USADA proposal was for riders and lower level team staff. It is done to break omerta and accurately work out the extent of the problems.

 

[JimmyFingers]

The highlighted is not going to happen.
Has recent events (which aren't really new) altered whatever way you are involved with the sport?

As for TRC - it appears people are confusing TRC with the UCIIC. The UCIIC was specific to investigating the activities of the UCI.
The TRC has not actually been agreed yer - but the USADA proposal was for riders and lower level team staff. It is done to break omerta and accurately work out the extent of the problems.

It was intended hypothetically, but I will comment on a couple of points raised. It certainly won't change the frequency I ride my bikes. I commute five days a week and will always go for a longer ride at the weekend up to audax level. That said it will certainly make me less inclined to go on sportives or grassroots events, less inclined to watch on TV or go to spectate pro-races or the worlds, and generally follow the sport less keenly. I'm not about to boycott the sport but at the same time disseminating the message as often as possible through word of mouth and social media can affect change. A sport is only as strong as its fanbase, if that fanbase declines, the revenue declines and so the sport.

I do think we all have to be active as we can to affect change in the sport. At the end of the day you vote with your feet. Enough people do it and it will be felt and changes will come.