Ulissi pulled

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offbyone said:
I would think this is just used to mask something else.

I see the comparison to Froome, but on the other hand, if I am interpreting this correctly Ulissi's blood value showed twice what the TUE exception would have allowed.
There is no TUE exception. It's just a limit. But not a "rolling" limit. When you take your inhaler and the time of the test are crucial.

Nevertheless sounds like Lampre are doing a "non-natives" study just like Sky.

And if Rogers can get off you hope the case here is the same :rolleyes:
 
Oct 16, 2010
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jens_attacks said:
first of all, mpcc is just a joke. it doesn't mean anything
i agree it's a joke, but to say it doesn't mean anything, well, the available data actually suggest a pattern:
More Strides than Rides said:
Bolded are MPCC member teams

1 OmegaPharma - Quick Step Cycling Team PRT 13731
2. Movistar Team PRT 10568
3. BMC Racing Team PRT 10148
4. Team Sky PRT 9363
5. Tinkoff - Saxo PRT 9058
6. Team Katusha PRT 9016
7. Lampre - Merida PRT 8614
8. Ag2r La Mondiale PRT 8541
9. Team Giant - Shimano PRT 8426
10. Belkin Pro Cycling Team PRT 8359
More Strides than Rides said:
1. (4) ESP VALVERDE BELMONTE Alejandro MOV 25/04/1980 2779
2. (8) COL QUINTANA ROJAS Nairo Alexander MOV 04/02/1990 2230
3. (3) SVK SAGAN Peter CAN 26/01/1990 2216
4. (1) GBR FROOME Chris SKY 20/05/1985 2137
5. (5) ESP RODRIGUEZ OLIVER Joaquim KAT 12/05/1979 1947
6. (18) ESP CONTADOR VELASCO Alberto TCS 06/12/1982 1923
7. (7) POR COSTA Rui Alberto Faria LAM 05/10/1986 1866
8. (20) GER DEGENKOLB John GIA 07/01/1989 1860
9. (30) POL KWIATKOWSKI Michal OPQ 02/06/1990 1696
10 (27) FRA BOUHANNI Nacer FDJ 25/07/1990 1470
 
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jens_attacks said:
the only pattern i see there is that it's good to have a big budget

mikhailov mpcc trololol
of course katusha's membership is firm evidence that mpcc is a joke.
yet it sounds reasonable to assume that on average there's less cortisone abuse among mpcc members.
 
Catwhoorg said:
Just getting caught up on this.

He was tested several times during the race.

If the levels were low prior, you have evidence of a major slug of salbutamol being taken.

If the prior levels are increasing, maybe there is grounds for him "over puffing" his clearance rate. (which may or may not be evidence for him taking more than 16 puffs, some people do not clear the drug well in their urine and it can build-up).

No matter what it does sound like he was targeted for testing during this race.
The adverse finding was based on a test taken after a stage where he finished 58. Why was he tested then and how come all the other tests are clean? On the other hand he looked suspicious enough but I think the ITT which came after the positive test was the most dubious performance.
 
Rollthedice said:
The adverse finding was based on a test taken after a stage where he finished 58. Why was he tested then and how come all the other tests are clean? On the other hand he looked suspicious enough but I think the ITT which came after the positive test was the most dubious performance.
Because Rogers coming back from his free pass was suspicious enough for the testers at the Giro :rolleyes:
 
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markene2 said:
Nice of the UCI as always to throw a Italian, Spaniard or Easter European under the bus, sends out the nice signal that anglo-saxons are squeeky clean!
this.
i think this is not just a clinic cliche, but bitter reality.
belgians, dutch and germans also seem to receive preferential treatment.
when was the last germanic rider caught by uci testing?
 
sniper said:
this.
i think this is not just a clinic cliche, but bitter reality.
belgians, dutch and germans also seem to receive preferential treatment.
when was the last germanic rider caught by uci testing?
Maybe I am incorrect but is Ulissi not currently at the same point as JTL & Rogers were(adverse analytical findings/Rogers was positive tho) so that put's the Anglo-Saxon bias out the window a bit straight away. Maybe he will be treated differently in actual punishment but if he receives a 6 month ban, how is that different from Rogers? JTL has been out longer even if it is not officially a ban.
 
sniper said:
this.
i think this is not just a clinic cliche, but bitter reality.
belgians, dutch and germans also seem to receive preferential treatment.
when was the last germanic rider caught by uci testing?
Erick IRMISCH (AAF for Cocaine) - but he is a downhill rider

Patrik SINKEWITZ Feb 27 2011 AAF for recGH
For which he got an 8 year ban, thanks to CAS :)

Thats just German's not Germanics :eek:
 
pmcg76 said:
Maybe I am incorrect but is Ulissi not currently at the same point as JTL & Rogers were(adverse analytical findings/Rogers was positive tho) so that put's the Anglo-Saxon bias out the window a bit straight away. Maybe he will be treated differently in actual punishment but if he receives a 6 month ban, how is that different from Rogers? JTL has been out longer even if it is not officially a ban.
It would make a significant difference if they had a subsequent case.

JTL will be due backpay if cleared assuming his wages are being witheld.

So 6 months sitting then cleared and 6 month ban would have serious financial consequences.
 
pmcg76 said:
Maybe I am incorrect but is Ulissi not currently at the same point as JTL & Rogers were(adverse analytical findings/Rogers was positive tho) so that put's the Anglo-Saxon bias out the window a bit straight away. Maybe he will be treated differently in actual punishment but if he receives a 6 month ban, how is that different from Rogers? JTL has been out longer even if it is not officially a ban.
JTL was positive for something to do with a longitudinal irregularities. The anti-doping authority has the option of asking for an explanation before sanctioning the athlete.

We don't know if Ulissi was asked for an explanation. If he was, then they didn't like the answer and sanctioned him.

Also keep in mind, whatever the sanction, it may be the easiest case to defend if it goes to CAS. So, maybe he's got loads of suspicious stuff going on with his values and they picked this one. Kind of similar to Contador's case. The dark forces inside the UCI somehow picked Ulissi.

On a separate note, ***INCREDIBLE*** timing. I too wonder how this shapes things for Pappy.

Does anyone know if Ulissi brought sponsorship money to the sport?
 
I wouldn't read too much into the fact that the positive sample was taken after stage 11, and not after one of the stages he won (or the TT). One common misconception is to think that when a test is negative, then the rider must be clean. Legally he (or she) is clean, of course. No doubt about it. But we've learned from cases like Armstrong, Rasmussen and many others that these riders could deliver negative tests time after time although they were still on all sorts of juice.

When a lab in 2004 made retro EPO testing of urine samples from the 1998 Tour they found two negative and one positive sample from Stuart O'Grady. When the results were published - duing the 2013 Tour - he admitted that he was on EPO in 1998 and announced his retirement. But notice that there were two negative samples (could have something to do with the samples spending 6 years in the lab, I don't know). If he'd only delivered the two negative samples - by chance or luck - then we'd all think he was a clean rider. But he wasn't! He was on EPO during the 1998 Tour. The labs only find what they're looking for, and they have to be pretty certain with a very low margin of errors.
 
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Catwhoorg said:
Erick IRMISCH (AAF for Cocaine) - but he is a downhill rider

Patrik SINKEWITZ Feb 27 2011 AAF for recGH
For which he got an 8 year ban, thanks to CAS :)

Thats just German's not Germanics :eek:
cheers.

although i was having my tinfoil hat on, one can hardly escape the sense that mediterranean and eastern european riders are preferred scapegoats in aigle.
 
el_angliru said:
But we've learned from cases like Armstrong, Rasmussen and many others that these riders could deliver negative tests time after time although they were still on all sorts of juice.
1. The UCI not opening a case even though there are positive scores is the source of so many 'never tested positive' claims.
2. There is no question it is possible to be non-positive and doped 1000 different ways. But, the most likely scenario remains the UCI not opening a case.

el_angliru said:
The labs only find what they're looking for, and they have to be pretty certain with a very low margin of errors.
A false positive is the worst possible outcome. The WADA test standards go far beyond "pretty certain" to the point it enables real, effective doping, and makes false positives nearly impossible. That is not ideal, but there are so many other much larger problems this one is not important.
 
Jul 11, 2013
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sniper said:
this.
i think this is not just a clinic cliche, but bitter reality.
belgians, dutch and germans also seem to receive preferential treatment.
when was the last germanic rider caught by uci testing?
Defineteley worth a thought..

Was the german TV stations not the first to make the threat (and partly completeted) of pulling the plug for tv-coverage.. (late 90's)

Taking into account the history of UCI/ASO (Armstrong,the clen case(s) etc). It would seem that suggesting a fishy selection process when it comes to official positives is a bit more than a conspiracy theory..

A new scandal á lá Festina would most likely cost a ton of money for previous mentioned organisations..

I have been wondering for a while of who I would grade to be the worst sinners..
-The dopers
-The enablers/ or worse the ones who decide who can dope/win..


No proof, far-fetched.... I know..

Maybe Ulissi was beeing too uncareful and they had to do something before someone came first to display their incompetence..
 
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mrhender said:
Was the german TV stations not the first to make the threat (and partly completeted) of pulling the plug for tv-coverage.. (late 90's)
(snipped)
A new scandal á lá Festina would most likely cost a ton of money for previous mentioned organisations..
(snipped)
good point.
Maybe Ulissi was beeing too uncareful and they had to do something before someone came first to display their incompetence..
ditto
 
Sep 29, 2012
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More Strides than Rides said:
So, the International Standards for testing is ambiguous, and The code is not specific. I found more specific guidelines from a documentof proposed ammendments and questions from NADOs. UKAD. NADOs can have their own guidelines for notification of athletes USADA has nothing clear on their website except cute yellow and red buttons for info about urine and blood tests blood. UKADrules were a little more specific.
Thanks!

It felt like the rider had only just found out in the articles read - but probably not the case.

Also kinda makes a mockery of the process that he was able to continue to ride for another 6 stages after submitting a positive sample.
 
Sep 29, 2012
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el_angliru said:
I wouldn't read too much into the fact that the positive sample was taken after stage 11, and not after one of the stages he won (or the TT). One common misconception is to think that when a test is negative, then the rider must be clean. Legally he (or she) is clean, of course. No doubt about it. But we've learned from cases like Armstrong, Rasmussen and many others that these riders could deliver negative tests time after time although they were still on all sorts of juice.
As well as the fact that winning a stage (TTT) or gaining the GC lead does not necessarily mean you will be tested at all at the Giro.
 
Jul 13, 2010
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JimmyFingers said:
So how does it enhance performance then, pray tell? He was suffering from bronchiospasms, which doesn't sound nice at all.
I was wondering as well.

Wiki says (medicinal uses section) .. Salbutamol is used to treat acute hyperkalemia as it stimulates potassium to flow in cells thus lowering the level in the blood

Under hyperkalemia it says (causes section) .. Massive blood transfusion or massive hemolysis

So I was wondering if it could be used to mess with the blood values in order to mask transfusions. Just thinking out loud here.
 
Dear Wiggo said:
Thanks!

It felt like the rider had only just found out in the articles read - but probably not the case.

Also kinda makes a mockery of the process that he was able to continue to ride for another 6 stages after submitting a positive sample.
I recall Floyd frequently finding out the status of his case in the press.

Regarding the delay, that's not much of a delay. 6 day turn around is quick.
 

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