Uno-X Pro Cycling Team

[jaylew]

Obviously it is easier to be able to pick riders from all over the world, but saying a Norwegian/Danish squad can't work is far from the truth.

I mean, the top 20 on the list is:

Fuglsang, Asgreen, Mads P., Kragh, Vingegaard, Kristoff, Honore, Foss, Hoelgaard, Tiller, Cort, Halvorsen, Kron, Valgren, Casper P., Leknessund, Moerkoev, Wurtz, Bystroem, Skjelmose.

With another 5-10 Doms to complete it, that would be one of the strongest teams on the WT.

I think you're going a bit far and overrating several of those riders but I'd say they could be average. And of course, teams that try to keep their rosters local pretty much never get anywhere near all the top riders from their country so more realistically you're looking at a team that would be closer to a bottom tier WT team.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

From the UCi website right now:

UCI Road Rankings

Individual ranking:
Fuglsang is 11th with 1775 points.

Team ranking:
Uno-X is 25th with 1203 points.

Total:
2978 points.

Cofidis is 15th with 2689.
Arkea is 16th with 2595
TDE is 20th with 2080 points

So yes, as of the standings today, signing Fuglsang would bring Uno-X to 15th, and provided Alpecin goes WT next year, that would make them the top Pro team.

And sure, none of us know how many points anyone makes, the rest of the year, so things can change, but that is how it stands right now.

Either way it's a moot point, because IF they signed Fuglsang, he would be part of a group of new riders signed, each bringing points, to ensure participation in the Tour next year - if not there would be no point.

I can't see anywhere that new signings will have any impact on this, so the rules seem to differ from those involving WT licenses:

https://www.uci.org/docs/default-source/rules-and-regulations-right-column/part-ii-road/2-roa-20211101-e-amendments-on-01.11.2021.pdf

And this article doesn't imply that Alpecin's score was going to change because they had brought in Philipsen and others, though it would only have mattered if Arkea had picked up someone with a lot of points:

Alpecin-Fenix all but seal Tour de France invite after topping latest Europe Tour rankings

Arkéa-Samsic secure in second place after end of Classics and Giro d'Italia

www.cyclingnews.com

The individual ranking is based on results from the last two seasons, whereas the team ranking looks at those from this year alone (by November they will of course be identical). If you click on Astana in the team ranking, you will see that Fuglsang is only credited with 590 points, because those from last year doesn't count towards it. If you were to use them anyway, you'll have to add up the points for the ten best riders in the invidual ranking for each team. Arkea would then have 4158 points compared to Uno-X's 1932.52, so Fuglsang's points, if valid, wouldn't even be enough for them if they were the final scores. But again that isn't the way the ranking works.

 

[Norbea]

But I'm not sure if it is a result of concidence or a intentional plan for Uno-X or someone else in Norwegian cycling that we suddenly have several GC talents/climbers now.

It is an intentional plan from Norwegian cycling. At least some of the youngest climbing talents in Uno-X probably has benefitted some from a plan of recruiting and providing resources towards talents with climbing skills. In my opinion younger talents needs to race more abroad and get to know the alps from a young age. You can get some of the way by climbing on Norwegian roads but if you are to compete against the best you need to get racing at an early age on the European mainland. Races on Norwegian mountains are few and far between and the quality isn't that good. You're probably better of doing MTB-races. Having mid-level development teams that has a good international race-program is perfect for Norwegian cycling at this stage.

But, then again, it is a question of coincidence and having the right talent. Slovenia have climbers that are the best in the world in their generation, but besides from the climate I doubt it is a lot easier to develop good cyclists in Slovenia than in Norway. Slovenia is a smaller country than Norway and Norway has great traditions in endurance sports and a large pool of active kids in xc-skiing that makes it easy to get them to transition into other sports as well. It is only a matter of time before the great Norwegian climber comes a long. Right now Norway has world class runners in the Ingebrigtsen-brothers and Warholm. Soon enough there will be a good climber as well.

 

[Broccolidwarf]

I think you're going a bit far and overrating several of those riders but I'd say they could be average. And of course, teams that try to keep their rosters local pretty much never get anywhere near all the top riders from their country so more realistically you're looking at a team that would be closer to a bottom tier WT team.

I'm not rating them, the UCI is.

I am going by ranking points.

Combined those riders have 10,195 points as of today.
The top 10 riders, which would count towards the team ranking, has 7,637 points.

That ranks such a team 2nd in the world, behind Ineos which has 9366, and ahead of DQ which has 7,473 (and that's before DQ loses Asgreen's 1,340, and Honore's 411 points in the scenario).

It's obviously a moot point, as it is never going to happen, but the point still is, that there is enough talent in Norway and Denmark, to carry a good WT team.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

I listened to an interesting Norwegian cycling podcast (TV2 Sykkelpodden) today lead by former pro Mads Kaggestad where the credible journalist Jarle Fredagsvik was guest. A lot of talk about Uno-X and some very interesting topics.

• according to Fredagsvik the "Ajax-model" where young riders are free to leave when World Tour teams comes for them are something the team just have to do in their position, it still hurts when the good riders gets poached and leaves (as it's clearly a hinder to develop the teams strength).
• Markus Hoelgaard will go to Trek after this season. Intermache-Wanty wanted Hoelgaard, but he preferred Trek.
• Hvideberg will go to DSM after this season.
• Intermache-Wanty are interested in Kristoff and Bystrøm, and also Søren Wærenskiold (Wærenskiold apparently has 3 WT-teams interested). My interpretation of the way he said things is that those riders are not really keen on going there.
• Intermache-Wanty have Odd Christian Eiking already, he doesn't have a contract for next year yet.
• A lot of foreign agents are contacting the Uno-X management trying to get Uno-X to sign their riders, so if Uno-X wants foreign (not Danish) riders there are plenty available.
• One of the main reasons to start up Uno-X Dare Development Team before this season was to avoid talents like Johannes Staune Mittet (went to Jumbo Development Team) and Vegard Stokke (went to DSM Development Team) slipping away.

- Ineos is interested in Bystrøm, confirmed by Gabriel Rasch. Bystrøm said he have several options (Uno-X is one of them) and he thinks he will decide already by the end of June. I don't think it's a good sign for Uno-X that he will decide so early. To Norwegian TV2 Bystrøm said he will look at the role he will get, what races he will be promised and salary, so going to Ineos make sense. He will get to ride all spring classics and he might get some chances in some of them. Big blow for Uno-X if he goes there.

---

So it looks like Bystrøm is not coming, which is a big shame as he would be the perfect replacement for Hoelgaard.

Kristoff was always a long shot for next season, but I must say it would be disappointing to see him go to such a weak WT-team as Intermache-Wanty.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

Talking about Kristoff, Bystrøm and Uno-X it's important to know their connections to the Conti team Team Coop. I think Kristoff is even team owner and Kristoff have a big personal sponsor deal with Coop. Bystrøm rode 3 seasons for the team before he went pro and in the National Championship Kristoff and Bystrøm always have gotten support form this team.

So on national level they are basically Uno-Xs only real competitiors (now that Joker was shut down after last season), and if Kristoff signs for Uno-X, maybe that could mean the end of Team Coop.

 

[OlavEH]

So it looks like Bystrøm is not coming, which is a big shame as he would be the perfect replacement for Hoelgaard.

Kristoff was always a long shot for next season, but I must say it would be disappointing to see him go to such a weak WT-team as Intermache-Wanty.

If they need more ranking points next year to attain a WT licence in 2023, I have a hard time seeing them achieve this with only Norwegian and Danish riders and without Hoelgaard, Bystrøm and Kristoff. The other riders of a decent quality without contract next season are Honore, Eg, EBH and Eiking. Except for Honore, I wouldn't be too excited about these names. Maybe they need to revise their policy already then if want to maximise their chances for a WT spot in 2023.

 

[Broccolidwarf]

If they need more ranking points next year to attain a WT licence in 2023, I have a hard time seeing them achieve this with only Norwegian and Danish riders and without Hoelgaard, Bystrøm and Kristoff. The other riders of a decent quality without contract next season are Honore, Eg, EBH and Eiking. Except for Honore, I wouldn't be too excited about these names. Maybe they need to revise their policy already then if want to maximise their chances for a WT spot in 2023.

Other riders out of contract at the end of this season:

Norway:
Odd Christian Eiking (Intermarche)

Denmark:
Jakob Fuglsang (Astana)
Jonas Gregaard (Astana)
Mathias Norsgaard (Movistar)
Chris Juul (BikeExchange)
Alexander Kamp (Trek)
Asbjoern Kragh (DSM)
Emil Vinjebo (Qhubeka)
Andreas Stokbro (Qhubeka)
Lasse Norman (Qhubeka)

 

[OlavEH]

Other riders out of contract at the end of this season:

Norway:
Odd Christian Eiking (Intermarche)

Denmark:
Jakob Fuglsang (Astana)

I forgot Fuglsang.....

However, I don't think he will end up in Uno-X. If not Kristoff, Bystrøm and Honore, guys like Boasson Hagen, Eiking, Eg, Kragh Andersen and those Qhubeka guys seems like the most plausible options. I would be very far from convinced if that were to be the case.

 

[Roku]

Bystrom doesn't seem like a guy who gets leadership duties at INEOS. Maybe he would be gifted a Samyn or KBK but not much more. Should it all come down to money, then INEOS is the obvious choice.

Fuglsang would be a great addition. Eiking, Juul, Gregaard and Kamp are also interesting.

 

[Broccolidwarf]

I forgot Fuglsang.....

However, I don't think he will end up in Uno-X. If not Kristoff, Bystrøm and Honore, guys like Boasson Hagen, Eiking, Eg, Kragh Andersen and those Qhubeka guys seems like the most plausible options. I would be very far from convinced if that were to be the case.

Oh, I don't think so either, it's a pipedream

I'm just saying it's a possibility, partly because I'm not sure Fuglsang is guaranteed a "free role" on Astana, when the Tour hits Denmark next year - AND his points would jump Uno-X instantly to 2nd best Pro team after Alpecin - and when Alpecin steps up to WT for next year, that makes Uno-X the top pro team, guaranteeing Tour selection.

- all based on points today, of course, nobody knows where it is at season end.

It would be a way for both Fuglsang AND Uno-X to "ensure" (at least in theory), that both ride the Tour next year.

Add to that, that Fuglsang has always said, that he would love to end his career on a Danish team - and currently - Uno-X is the closest thing we've got

 

[Roku]

I'm not sure it works that way. My understanding is points stay at the team. The "points follow rider" system was suppressed some years ago.

 

[Broccolidwarf]

Jakob Fuglsang (Astana)
Jonas Gregaard (Astana)
Mathias Norsgaard (Movistar)
Chris Juul (BikeExchange)
Alexander Kamp (Trek)
Asbjoern Kragh (DSM)
Emil Vinjebo (Qhubeka)
Andreas Stokbro (Qhubeka)
Lasse Norman (Qhubeka)

On that list, here is what I think:

Fuglsang:
(look above)

Gregaard:
If Fuglsang moves, he probably does too.

Norsgaard:
No way he is leaving Movistar, after how well they treated him during his injury - and he is starting to come good - they will extend his contract for sure.

Juul:
As long as his level is there, I see him staying with BEX, he is a much beloved rider and a very competent road captain.

Kamp:
4 months ago, I would have said he was ready for a change, where he could ride his own chances more. But he has ridden a stellar season so far, so I see Trek extending his contract.

Kragh:
On another team I would say he is extended, because the team wants to keep his brother happy. But DSM is very much a data driven team - "moneycycling" if you will - so I could see them cutting him loose.

Vinjebo:
What happens with Qhubeka is anybody's guess, they only have 5 riders under contract next year. Vinjebo is a competent Dom, but not exactly setting the world alight. He is a neopro, so they may give him another year, especially with Michaelsen as Sports Director.

Stokbro:
Same situation as Vinjebo, though Stokbro is 3 years younger, so may have a better shot at extension.

Norman:
I think he is most likely to go to Uno-X. He has a lot of ties with the Danish track riders on the team, and he is quite an experienced pro rider by now, with 7 years experience at several WT and Pro teams.

 

[Broccolidwarf]

I'm not sure it works that way. My understanding is points stay at the team. The "points follow rider" system was suppressed some years ago.

That would be news to me - and if that is indeed true - my whole argument is dead as a dodo

Do you have a source?

Edit:

I just looked at the team rankings on the UCI website.
If you look at Trek, Porte's points from last year don't figure, so clearly his points have not been retained by the team.
On the other hand, his points from last year don't figure in Ineos' ranking either, so who the fcuk knows?

 

[Broccolidwarf]

I'm not sure it works that way. My understanding is points stay at the team. The "points follow rider" system was suppressed some years ago.

It seems you are right!

The ins and outs of UCI Rankings

www.uci.org

It says:

""But the third classification, the Teams ranking, is based on the points allotted only within a single road racing season, to individual riders in that squad. The season officially starts the day after the last UCI WorldTour event of the calendar year. "

So a Fuglsang changing teams at the end of the season, would not count towards the season end ranking for Uno-X (I wonder what happens if a rider changes teams in season? ).

In other words, it seems riding the Tour in 2022, is a ship that has already sailed for Uno-X, unless the Tour gives them a wildcard.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

In other words, it seems riding the Tour in 2022, is a ship that has already sailed for Uno-X, unless the Tour gives them a wildcard.

Like I already told you, remember? (though this is a much better proof than the ones I came up with)

This article also says, that Niki Terpstra's points from DQS weren't transfered to TDE, so if Fuglsang (or any other big name) were to ride for Uno-X next year, only his 2022 result would be looked at to determine if the team would qualify for a WT licence for the next period beginning in 2023.

Exclusive: Risk of legal challenge leads UCI to expand WorldTour to 20 teams | Cyclingnews.com

Three-year team ranking to decide which of 23 teams secure final places

www.cyclingnews.com

 

[yaco]

Previously posted they should look at taking over BEX's sponsorship - Unless, Gerry Ryan can obtain Aussie sponsorship he will hand in the license at the end of 2022 - You can take over the licence with it's infrastructure and you can choose from a core of good riders - Then you don't have to worry about points.

 

[Broccolidwarf]

Previously posted they should look at taking over BEX's sponsorship - Unless, Gerry Ryan can obtain Aussie sponsorship he will hand in the license at the end of 2022 - You can take over the licence with it's infrastructure and you can choose from a core of good riders - Then you don't have to worry about points.

But that carries with it 17 riders already signed for 2022.

Good riders mostly - but only Jansen fits with the team strategy.

I think a more likely approach would be, for Uno-X to wait on BEX going bust (which I personally don't hope will happen), and then apply for the WT license left unused.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Anyone have any idea what the plans are of/with Sleen? Guy was immense in the 2019 TdlA as domestique for Foss. Haven't seen him in the spotlights since, so i don't know how he's developed since.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

Kamp:
4 months ago, I would have said he was ready for a change, where he could ride his own chances more. But he has ridden a stellar season so far, so I see Trek extending his contract.

A bit randomly I saw Uno-X Official Twitter account liking his tweet after the Danish NC and he's the only pro rider non-UnoX they have liked a tweet of in the last couple of months. Maybe thats a sign?

Anyone have any idea what the plans are of/with Sleen? Guy was immense in the 2019 TdlA as domestique for Foss. Haven't seen him in the spotlights since, so i don't know how he's developed since.

During the last month he got the chance to lead the team at Tour of Malopolska and Oberösterreichrundfahrt. 8th in Poland and 7th in Austria, not great performances but pretty okay. My unqualified guess is that he will never be a rider that win himself on top level but he could be a decent domestique.

 

[OlavEH]

Gregaard:
If Fuglsang moves, he probably does too.

Norsgaard:
No way he is leaving Movistar, after how well they treated him during his injury - and he is starting to come good - they will extend his contract for sure.

Juul:
As long as his level is there, I see him staying with BEX, he is a much beloved rider and a very competent road captain.

Kamp:
4 months ago, I would have said he was ready for a change, where he could ride his own chances more. But he has ridden a stellar season so far, so I see Trek extending his contract.

Kragh:
On another team I would say he is extended, because the team wants to keep his brother happy. But DSM is very much a data driven team - "moneycycling" if you will - so I could see them cutting him loose.

Vinjebo:
What happens with Qhubeka is anybody's guess, they only have 5 riders under contract next year. Vinjebo is a competent Dom, but not exactly setting the world alight. He is a neopro, so they may give him another year, especially with Michaelsen as Sports Director.

Stokbro:
Same situation as Vinjebo, though Stokbro is 3 years younger, so may have a better shot at extension.

Norman:

Who of these do you think could be good riders for Uno-X? That means given more responsibility and a more important role will be able to perform good enough to score some UCI points for Uno-X in their pursuit of a WT spot?

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Previously posted they should look at taking over BEX's sponsorship - Unless, Gerry Ryan can obtain Aussie sponsorship he will hand in the license at the end of 2022 - You can take over the licence with it's infrastructure and you can choose from a core of good riders - Then you don't have to worry about points.

That would indeed be the fastest way, but then their statement about not wanting to compromise the team's identity and philosophy would have kind of a hollow ring to it. And if that was seen as a feasible strategy, then it would have been easier to have bought NTT's licence last year and possibly have gotten Norman, Stokbro, Vinjebo, Valgren and EBH that way and an experienced DS in Lars Michaelsen as well as Lars Bak and Rasmus Tiller, who they ultimately picked up anyway.

The question is if they are even interested in becoming a WT team before 2023, and whether they want to slowly progress and develop into one rather than buying their way in.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

During the last month he got the chance to lead the team at Tour of Malopolska and Oberösterreichrundfahrt. 8th in Poland and 7th in Austria, not great performances but pretty okay. My unqualified guess is that he will never be a rider that win himself on top level but he could be a decent domestique.

I didn't really see him as GC leader material, but as a rockhard domestique that could go a long way.

 

[Broccolidwarf]

Who of these do you think could be good riders for Uno-X? That means given more responsibility and a more important role will be able to perform good enough to score some UCI points for Uno-X in their pursuit of a WT spot?

In terms of scoring significant points, only Fuglsang and Honore are relevant.

Kamp can be a stable earner, with a lot of top 20s over a season, but probably lacks that tiny bit extra, to make him someone who wins with regularity.

Juul is the perfect road captain for a new WT team.

Norsgaard has the potential to become a cobbles star, but we are probably at least a couple of seasons away from him proving that.

The rest are excellent Doms, but no more than that.

 

[Broccolidwarf]

The question is if they are even interested in becoming a WT team before 2023, and whether they want to slowly progress and develop into one rather than buying their way in.

I think they will happily wait until 2023, provided they get a wild card for the Tour next year..... I think that part makes a big difference, with the main sponsor having significant business interests in Denmark.