US prosecutors drop case against Armstrong/USPS

[Josep_Joya]

Was very surprised case was dropped because huge amount of evidence.

This thread reminds me of that story of the staunch republican who was shocked (SHOCKED) after Obama won the election. Asked why he was so surprised he answered; "but everyone I know voted for McCain".

I'm shocked. Everyone on the forum said "huge amount of evidence"

Must be nice to be a lawyer who gets to create his own industry. We get paid to investigate and we'll investigate for 20 years if we have to. My kids want to go to the ivy league so maybe we'll push that to 25. We'll suffer through every junket to France and Italy but we'll leave no stone unturned. We'll , maybe a couple stones if they point to some of those guys that we want to pretend didn't dope.

 

[Oldman]

This thread reminds me of that story of the staunch republican who was shocked (SHOCKED) after Obama won the election. Asked why he was so surprised he answered; "but everyone I know voted for McCain".

I'm shocked. Everyone on the forum said "huge amount of evidence"

Must be nice to be a lawyer who gets to create his own industry. We get paid to investigate and we'll investigate for 20 years if we have to. My kids want to go to the ivy league so maybe we'll push that to 25. We'll suffer through every junket to France and Italy but we'll leave no stone unturned. We'll , maybe a couple stones if they point to some of those guys that we want to pretend didn't dope.

So are you the voice of deniability? I mean; not even the interns at Pub Strat believe he didn't dope.

 

[Josep_Joya]

So are you the voice of deniability? I mean; not even the interns at Pub Strat believe he didn't dope.

I don't care if he doped. What choice did he have? The sport was infested when he turned pro thanks to those before him. Imagine if he never did and walked away. You'd be crying for him now like you pretend to cry for the others.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Who is corrupt? Holder? Breuer?

Yes.

Holder is the most incompetent AG going back to Mitchell Palmer or Harry Daugherty (Teapot Dome Scandal), or John Mitchell (Watergate). He makes Alberto Gonzalez look like Eliot Ness.

 

[sars1981]

Whatever Polish says, I can only conclude there WAS a huge amount of evidence. If there wasn't actually a huge enough amount of evidence, there certainly wasn't such a chronic dearth of evidence that the case had to be just dropped for that reason alone. Polish I believe knows this very well, and perhaps posts late at night when he is inebriated, or simply gets off on being contrarian (or both).

Knowing that there is ample evidence against Lance is the reason I figured it was a funding issue. If it's not funding, or lack of evidence, then I guess there has to be a more conspiratorial reason, to do with corruption or something. I shouldn't be surprised I suppose, but I am. Whatever the story, I have a feeling there will be more books written about this. David Walsh I'm sure will do the research. I'll wait for the next chapter.

 

[sars1981]

Line 1: Insufficient
Line 2: Evidence

How's the view in fantasyland?

 

[Velodude]

How's the view in fantasyland?

Spot on. Polish is a contrarian as part of her/his act in fantasyland.

Does not take long to take her/his ramblings with a pinch of salt.

 

[Benotti69]

I don't care if he doped. What choice did he have? The sport was infested when he turned pro thanks to those before him. Imagine if he never did and walked away. You'd be crying for him now like you pretend to cry for the others.

you dont care he doped yet you are in here!!!!!!Fail.

 

[Race Radio]

I don't care if he doped. What choice did he have? The sport was infested when he turned pro thanks to those before him. Imagine if he never did and walked away. You'd be crying for him now like you pretend to cry for the others.

Did he have a choice to pay off the UCI? Harass anyone who told the truth? He was forced to do that, really?

Poor, Poor, Lance. Always the victim.

 

[Poursuivant]

I havent visited this thread for a while, hae I missed anything? Have USADA said anything since their last announcement? Any leaks? Investigative articles? Shame it fizzled out, really wanted to hear the juicy details on the likes of HemAssist.

 

[Polish]

How's the view in fantasyland?

sars, it is important to distinquish the difference between "SSDD" and "Sufficient Evidence to convict on Federal Counts".

Plenty of SSDD. Ample SSDD.
But SSDD does NOT equal SETCOFC.
They are worlds apart.
Plenty of SSDD. Pleanty of Insufficient Evidence too.
Plenty of those.
But that is NOT sufficient.

Anyway, back to your original question....
It is really crowded here in fantasyland. Impossible to find a seat. SRO filled up long ago too. People lined up out the door. It seems like almost everyone is over here in fantasyland lol. No RICO, no Global Distribution, no felonies in Aspen wine bars. Mail gets delivered on Saturday. Jails are overcrowded here though. Understand over by you in the real world there is space available.

 

[Pazuzu]

http://competitorradio.competitor.com/2012/03/mark-zeigler-4/

Mark Zeigler talks about Ryan Braun, doping, and Armstrong.

Fascinating interview. The sporting world could use a few more journalists like Zeigler. Thanks for posting.

 

[Pazuzu]

Yes.

Holder is the most incompetent AG going back to Mitchell Palmer or Harry Daugherty (Teapot Dome Scandal), or John Mitchell (Watergate). He makes Alberto Gonzalez look like Eliot Ness.

Absolutely. Lest we forget, as deputy attorney general during the Clinton administration, Holder recommended pardoning billionaire fugitive Marc Rich.

Mr. Rich, a commodities trader, fled to Switzerland in 1983 before he was indicted on charges of tax evasion, fraud and illegal oil deals with Iran. He appears to have remained there over the years as his lawyers tried to reach a deal with the U.S. government. His former wife, Denise, a major Democratic donor and friend of the Clintons, lobbied the president for a pardon. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122749145870752223.html

I wouldn't be at all suprised if he had something to do with the decision to drop the Armstrong investigation.

 

[Josep_Joya]

you dont care he doped yet you are in here!!!!!!Fail.

I don't understand your point. Let's turn it around. You do care but yet you follow cycling?????? That's a contradiction. Or you care now but you didn't care in the 90's, 80's?

 

[Race Radio]

I don't understand your point. Let's turn it around. You do care but yet you follow cycling?????? That's a contradiction. Or you care now but you didn't care in the 90's, 80's?

Most intelligent people realize that doping is not the sole measure of a person or the sport.

 

[Josep_Joya]

Did he have a choice to pay off the UCI? Harass anyone who told the truth? He was forced to do that, really?

Poor, Poor, Lance. Always the victim.

Pay off the UCI? You insinuate a cover up. Call me old fashioned, but I'd like that to be proven first. Harass those who told the truth? Who told the truth? Landis? He never doped until he met Lance? Frankie ( I only tried doping once in 99) Andreu. You have 6,000 anti Lance posts and he's the bully?

We'll file this under the "yes, RR does live in an alternative universe"

 

[Anonymous]

Pay off the UCI? You insinuate a cover up. Call me old fashioned, but I'd like that to be proven first. Harass those who told the truth? Who told the truth? Landis? He never doped until he met Lance? Frankie ( I only tried doping once in 99) Andreu. You have 6,000 anti Lance posts and he's the bully?

We'll file this under the "yes, RR does live in an alternative universe"

Wow. This is only the 398th loop this conversation has made.

With 4 posts you have already made a conclusion about RR? So, who did you used to be before you were banned for the 302nd time?

 

[Josep_Joya]

Most intelligent people realize that doping is not the sole measure of a person or the sport.

I get it, you demonize him and then hate him for being a demon. Why don't you poke at Indurain, LeMond, Delgado, Roche, Kelly and Mozer and see how nice they are.

 

[Velodude]

I get it, you demonize him and then hate him for being a demon. Why don't you poke at Indurain, LeMond, Delgado, Roche, Kelly and Mozer and see how nice they are.

Comparatively they were all reasonable persons. People never saw the need to publicly challenge their performances so we never saw any spiteful gauntlet throwing from those riders you selected.

No self perpetuated myths either.

So no need for poking (in retaliation).

 

[DirtyWorks]

sars, it is important to distinquish the difference between "SSDD" and "Sufficient Evidence to convict on Federal Counts".

Making stuff up is not welcome. What is your source for insufficient evidence being the primary reason the investigation was dropped? Please be specific.

 

[Anonymous]

Making stuff up is not welcome. What is your source for insufficient evidence being the primary reason the investigation was dropped? Please be specific.

Good luck with that. lol

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Making stuff up is not welcome. What is your source for insufficient evidence being the primary reason the investigation was dropped? Please be specific.

The insufficient evidence “assumption” is being made and played out by most casual / everyday sports observers, in my opinion. When it was announced that the Federal Case against LA was being dropped and finally reached the television / news source for most Americans, that sports fan probably assumed that the Federal government did not have the goods on LA.
(if you work in an office try doing a poll about the federal case against LA…..see what type of results you get,,,,,no doubt in my mind you will be in full shock to realize a large percentage think either the federal case was insufficient or that LA would never ever dope….) Oh the freaking horror that might cause but then you might have a grip on the everyday reality that in the END the average American sports fan STILL does not give a rats *** about cycling. Very hard to believe I know,,,,, but that is the sad state of affairs with the American sports fan. In my opinion no doubt.

Now you would like for Polish to come up with some interwebs proof of this?

Considering the current climate within this thread where there has been interwebs chest bumping, name calling (member so and so is a Troll) (paid by some public strat. Company) and all other sorts of fun and games,,,,,,when you ask Polish for proof (source) for a “insufficient evidence” claim is rather funny in my opinion. How about the next time someone claims to have some “insider info.” Or the “scoop” maybe ask them for a source?

 

[Race Radio]

Making stuff up is not welcome. What is your source for insufficient evidence being the primary reason the investigation was dropped? Please be specific.

Don't hold your breath.

There has been zero indication, even from Borat, that there was not enough evidence. In fact the opposite appears to be true. Multiple media reports indicate there was plenty of evidence, that charges were already drawn up. This confidence was communicated to multiple international agencies and witnesses. Even casual observers can see that there is evidence of, at the least, witness tampering.

 

[DirtyWorks]

The insufficient evidence “assumption” is being made and played out by most casual / everyday sports observers, in my opinion.

Disagree. I think it breaks down along the lines of the people that want to believe the myth no matter what will promulgate the insufficient evidence assumption.
The people that don't care decided the guy is a doping cheat a while ago. There are lots more people that follow sports in general that just don't care one way or the other.

How about the next time someone claims to have some “insider info.” Or the “scoop” maybe ask them for a source?

I have in the past and will continue to do so. I'm okay with differing opinions. Just make a good argument that can be backed up with shared data. That simply doesn't happen when it comes to the Wonderboy myth.

My point in replying was preventing the faith-based and completely wrong assumption of insufficient evidence from becoming some kind of common sense. Like so much of Coyle's Armstrong nonsense lives on despite it's awfulness. I just don't want any more zombie assumptions springing to life.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Disagree. I think it breaks down along the lines of the people that want to believe the myth no matter what will promulgate the insufficient evidence assumption. The people that don't care decided the guy is a doping cheat a while ago. There are lots more people that follow sports in general that just don't care one way or the other.

My point in replying was preventing the faith-based and completely wrong assumption of insufficient evidence from becoming some kind of awful common sense. Like so much of Coyle's Armstrong nonsense is still used as a legitimate reference when it is myth-building propaganda wrapped in scientific speak. I just don't want any more zombie assumptions springing to life.

Maybe so. There are a large group of LA fans (not necessarily cycling fans) that go along with your statement above.

I would say that for the American sports fan it is true they don't care one way or the other about cycling.

I understand you’re trying to prevent the faith-based group from grabbing onto assumptions with regards to the truth but it is not necessary unless it makes you feel better to do so.