US prosecutors drop case against Armstrong/USPS

[Merckx index]

Betsy comments:

Betsy Andreu, who with her husband and former Armstrong teammate, Frank, accused the cycling champion of doping, said she was shocked by Birotte's decision.

"Our legal system failed us," she said. "This is what happens when you have a lot of money and you can buy attorneys who have people in high places in the Department of Justice."

A suggestion that LA’s “I’ve done too much good” argument may actually have been a factor:

"The government always has a tremendous amount of prosecutorial discretion regarding whether or not to bring an indictment. In this case it appears that they have acted judiciously and likely considered all of the good works of Lance Armstrong and his foundation," said Mathew Rosengart, a former federal prosecutor who is not involved in the case.

If this is true, for any case not just LA, I think it stinks. I can understand reducing or possibly even eliminating a sentence because of good works. But what does founding a charity have to do with the question of whether someone is guilty or innocent of some crime? I suppose an argument can be made for expediency. If the investigators thought they had enough evidence to make their case, but thought the case was not damning enough to persuade others that it outweighed the good works. But it still seems like justice not flying blind here.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/cycl...nce-enhancing-investigation-closed/52951474/1

 

[MarkvW]

Also, Baader, Ensslin, Meinhof, Meins, etc. were citizens. That sort of treatment and rendition of US citizens is only occurring now. In many ways, it's not unreasonable to suggest that the civic and cultural climate of the US recently is on track with that of the Germanic countries a century ago.

Oh yeah, Obama's just like Kaiser Wilhelm . . . .

 

[stephens]

Do those pledges count for the USADA case as well?

Well, the usada isn't even a governmental organization so i doubt the u.s. legal rules of evidence apply so i can't really extend the pledge about the '99 samples. I mean, it's quite different to say that some dudes sitting around a table will consider X to be "evidence" and to say that the federal court would accept it as evidence (which is what many people here were saying about the '99 samples).

But maybe we can make a new wager? Make another of your famous predictions (where will this stuff be a year from now?) and if I find it unlikely, I'll pledge with a donation if it ever comes true.

 

[stephens]

BTW, yes, Armstrong's money was a factor. But there is no way he spent anything close to what the government spent in their attempt to get him. He was just able to reduce the government's advantage more than a typical defendant can (they don't have a chance in hell).

 

[python]

As this chapter winds up here are some of my thoughts:

Lance Doped. I’m 100% convinced.
As they were happening, I enjoyed all 7 of his wins. Immensely.
After his doping came out my opinion of Lance shifted dramatically
Lance should keep his 7 victories because we all know the others cheated too.
I still enjoy watching cycling – even though the sport and system is corrupt.
Lance was the greatest cyclist and cheater of his generation.

i can understand how you're thinking and appreciate the brevity, but the last one bolded...that does not make sense to me when put together in one sentence.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

To the highlighted - simply put, there is nothing in the US statutes on doping, so all that "countless witnesses" means little.
As an example, "countless witnesses" (ok, 7 or 8) saw Lance infuse blood in a bus, not a crime.

So, when you ask what did Novitsky need - it was to attach Armstrong to criminal offenses. I was pretty confident that he would be able to but I also saw that it was a difficult task.

OK. I tought systematically doping with the help of tax payers money was/is a crime. OTOH game fixing is no crime either in the US. So nothing should surprise me anymore... BTW, if you have a beer in your hand publicly, it´s a crime, as i learned back in 1997. Funny country. The land of the free.

Anyway, at least Novitsky could have brought Armstrong to talk under oath. He would have lied then. After that, Novitsky would have had something against him. That leaves a sour taste.

 

[hughmoore]

You know, it's actually possible... just possible, that the faithful in the CN "I hate LA more than you do" thread never knew, like really knew, as much as they thought they did. It may be a bitter pill to swallow but maybe what it comes down to is the evidence, the real evidence (not rumor, or innuendo of non credible witnesses), simply wasn't strong enough to hold up in court.

Thats because there is zero evidence, how can there be evidence, because Lance never doped.




Hugh

 

[hughmoore]

OK. I tought systematically doping with the help of tax payers money was/is a crime. OTOH game fixing is no crime either in the US. So nothing should surprise me anymore... BTW, if you have a beer in your hand publicly, it´s a crime, as i learned back in 1997. Funny country. The land of the free.

Anyway, at least Novitsky could have brought Armstrong to talk under oath. He would have lied then. After that, Novitsky would have had something against him. That leaves a sour taste.

Novitsky could have gotten Lance to admit to doping and then prosecute him for lying.




Hugh

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

MOD NOTE: off topic. totally. From lhere all this will be deleted.

Susan

 

[LarryBudMelman]

Yeah. Really bad to what that once great country has come to since GWB sacrificed the last little bit of social peace in the name of the plutocracy. The sick thing is, this BS is coming over here like GRID came here in the early 80s.

You nailed it. Disgusting, disgraceful, cowardly decision. GWB was terrible. Obama, not much better and much more hypocritical. Not a democrat. Very weak. This whole thing foreshadows a lot more bs.

 

[BillytheKid]

OK. I tought systematically doping with the help of tax payers money was/is a crime. OTOH game fixing is no crime either in the US. So nothing should surprise me anymore... BTW, if you have a beer in your hand publicly, it´s a crime, as i learned back in 1997. Funny country. The land of the free.

Anyway, at least Novitsky could have brought Armstrong to talk under oath. He would have lied then. After that, Novitsky would have had something against him. That leaves a sour taste.

Beer drinking is only a crime by as dictated local ordinance and is allowed in many public places as it is not, and differs from city to city which can be confusing if your from out of town.

 

[LarryBudMelman]

why go to all this trouble and not question LA himself is my only remaining question

Landis, Tyler? Y'all are irrelevant now. the knife is deep and turning. feel for these guys a bit actually

Good question. Answer. Because this thing was fixed at the highest levels. That scumbag Fabiani was worth every penney. He's an old f#@ker and will be in hell soon.

 

[BillytheKid]

deleted.

But you notice how they dropped it on a Friday after it could not make the evening news. That's always a good time to avoid news coverage. By tomorrow evening, it well be well out of the news cycle. That's punny

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Well, the usada isn't even a governmental organization so i doubt the u.s. legal rules of evidence apply so i can't really extend the pledge about the '99 samples. I mean, it's quite different to say that some dudes sitting around a table will consider X to be "evidence" and to say that the federal court would accept it as evidence (which is what many people here were saying about the '99 samples).

But maybe we can make a new wager? Make another of your famous predictions (where will this stuff be a year from now?) and if I find it unlikely, I'll pledge with a donation if it ever comes true.

I like to bet. Please. If Armstrong will be indicted in France or Germany (you never know what the future brings) while he is still alive*, the 99 samples will be ruled as incriminating evidence against Armstrong. I give you 1/10 odds in your favour. You take it?

(* I doubt he´ll make it past 50, since i think even Alzado doped less and died early..

 

[DirtyWorks]

BTW, if you have a beer in your hand publicly, it´s a crime, as i learned back in 1997. Funny country. The land of the free.

Foxxy,

Americans have a recent past where all alcohol was illegal. Having an open beer in public is left over, from that brief era. The government institutions are VERY afraid of recreational drugs (lumping a beer in there) even though they are literally everywhere, out of plain sight. Similarly, there are ordinary people defending all sorts of scumbags and their actions until they are caught. No, it makes no sense but that's what it's like sometimes.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Beer drinking is only a crime by as dictated local ordinance and is allowed in many public places as it is not, and differs from city to city which can be confusing if your from out of town.

It wasn´t allowed in 1997-NYC. I didn´t knew it back then. I doubt they changed the rule in favour of freedom, since everything is going south since at least 2000...

 

[LarryBudMelman]

Yes, and then he'll have people digging in his trash who really know how to turn up ****.
I bet he doesn't run for dogcatcher.

I think you're wrong. The time to stop this clown was now and you gotta give it to Pharmstrong. No one would say it to his face.



The people who really know how to turn up $hit were overruled by the double chinned bureaucrats who never played a game in their lives and worship scumbags like Pharmstrong.

 

[LarryBudMelman]

But you notice how they dropped it on a Friday after it could not make the evening news. That's always a good time to avoid news coverage. By tomorrow evening, it well be well out of the news cycle. That's punny

Agree on the timing, just what I was thinking....Cowardly...

As RR pointed out, this same clown dropped the Countrywide prosecution....Again disgraceful.

 

[BillytheKid]

Foxxy,

Americans have a recent past where all alcohol was illegal. Having an open beer in public is left over, from that brief era. The government institutions are VERY afraid of recreational drugs (lumping a beer in there) even though they are literally everywhere, out of plain sight. Similarly, there are ordinary people defending all sorts of scumbags and their actions until they are caught. No, it makes no sense but that's what it's like sometimes.

The Canadians (1918) had a prohibition law before the United States (1919). They had closed all their distilleries, but fired them up once they could export it down to us.

Nice one, the guilt of America stuff.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prohibition

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prohibition

Women's Temperance and all that??

I think every think everything was legal until 1914.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

You nailed it. Disgusting, disgraceful, cowardly decision. GWB was terrible. Obama, not much better and much more hypocritical. Not a democrat. Very weak. This whole thing foreshadows a lot more bs.

Yes since 2001 even our freedom was cut more and more. But it got worse since the wall street inflicted financial crisis swashed over to europe. They soon have all of us by the balls. Financially and freedom wise.... Obama is just another puppet of the plutocrats. Man, even Kenya is better. There you knew you had a one party system. No hypocrisy spectacle needed.

Foxxy,

Americans have a recent past where all alcohol was illegal. Having an open beer in public is left over, from that brief era. The government institutions are VERY afraid of recreational drugs (lumping a beer in there) even though they are literally everywhere, out of plain sight. Similarly, there are ordinary people defending all sorts of scumbags and their actions until they are caught. No, it makes no sense but that's what it's like sometimes.

I could laugh if it wouldn´t be that sad. Man, sometimes i think fox news brainwashed many americans like all the parades did to the north korean people.

The result you can see here in some posts or even worse at places like espn. Just leaves me shaking my head in disbelief.

 

[chambers]

Lance may be emboldened now, but I doubt his very-expensively hired help would be the same. Discovery is what he's been wishing to avoid and he's got that wish now.

I think Lance is largely in the clear. I'm not going to countenance the idea that today's announcement is the Battle of the Bulge in the context of a larger war - a major victory in a fight destined to be lost. I fully expect USADA to be toothless.

When's Pat gonna weigh in? I think he's the most hubristic. Really wanna hear from Greg, Floyd, Tyler (beyond his removed tweet), Emma, Kimmage, Walsh et al.

To say the money and power got him off sounds like sour grapes - not saying it isn't true, but it will certainly sound that way.

I'm not overly disappointed lance has gotten off - rich, powerful popular people tend to get their way, so nothing new there. The worst part in this major setback is that cycling has lost a golden chance to clean itself up. Pat will reign for many years to come, and Johan will be DS to many more Tour winners. meh.[/QUOTE

Not sure how to take your post. What did you mean by the part I highlighted? The Battle of the Bulge (if your talking about the Battle of the Bulge in WWII) was won by the allies who then went on to win WWII. Your comment makes it appear that Germany had won the Battle of the Bulge.

 

[Yeahright]

I think you're wrong. The time to stop this clown was now and you gotta give it to Pharmstrong. No one would say it to his face.



The people who really know how to turn up $hit were overruled by the double chinned bureaucrats who never played a game in their lives and worship scumbags like Pharmstrong.

~edited by mod~ Don't you get it? After two years of 'no stone unturned', the evidence was not there and all your whining will not conjure it up. Time to put it behind you, get off the sofa and out on your bike. Feel the wind wash away the hate.

 

[Yeahright]

I guess I can cancel my previous pledges now, huh?

Excellent, you just got owned boys!

Good on you Stephens for putting up with endless crap on these forums. Poor old Hog, two years of absolute drivel shown to be just that.

 

[minessa]

What a great day for cycling!
Now Contador get banned on Monday and in July in Paris we all together with Lance, Johan and Andy can celebrate the victory for clean cycling.

 

[LarryBudMelman]

Lol you're a bitter and twisted individual. Don't you get it? After two years of 'no stone unturned', the evidence was not there and all your whining will not conjure it up. Time to put it behind you, get off the sofa and out on your bike. Feel the wind wash away the hate.

No hate clown. Why do all the fan boys mention getting on the bike? Believe me, even when I'm 90 I'd drop you.....