US prosecutors drop case against Armstrong/USPS

[Ulle Relaxes]

I haven't been on this forum long so I know next to little about Mr Ball or Rock Racing or his connection to Lance Armstrong.

I don't know if goober is an 'insider' or if he is an educated fan and really I don't care. I think it'd be hilarious if what he said was correct and Lance got away with 'it' while all the small fish got caught.

 

[Velodude]

It's a still a prediction. Sure the odds have been improved since the case has been dropped but he can still be proven wrong. I mean goober goes out on a limb and explicitly says there will be evidence against 'two team managers'. Two. Not a few. Not a handful. But two. It takes stupidity or conviction to be that definitive.

The second quote we don't know what he means by 'sheit' any way it's sort of backfired on you because now if Mr Ball gets implicated in a case that was supposed to be about Lance Armstrong- that's another thing he might be correct about.

I know you like to argue but please see sense in what I have posted.

Two managers. Two cycling teams.

So why do we hear of only "the United States Attorney Andre Birotte Jr. said his office 'is closing an investigation into allegations of federal criminal conduct by members and associates of a professional bicycle racing team owned in part by Lance Armstrong" and no other cycling team?

And as far as "members and associates" only the names as defendants of Weisel, Bruyneel (team manger) and Armstrong emerge?

Does that mean the Federal investigation is still ongoing against this yet unidentified other cycling team and members and associates?

 

[Ulle Relaxes]

I can not speak for goober but to me it seems he implying that evidence was found on doping on the domestic front, the FEDs weren't interested in going after the small fish but that this evidence will be handed to USADA and USADA will 'do the right thing' and bring these people to account.

 

[Granville57]

I sure hope the mods don't give me a warning for casting the Troll Stone in this thread

...but FFS people, learn the beauty of the Ignore Feature. It's a beautiful thing.

 

[mewmewmew13]

I sure hope the mods don't give me a warning for casting the Troll Stone in this thread

...but FFS people, learn the beauty of the Ignore Feature. It's a beautiful thing.

or move over to the 'other happy forum'.

 

[Velodude]

I sure hope the mods don't give me a warning for casting the Troll Stone in this thread

...but FFS people, learn the beauty of the Ignore Feature. It's a beautiful thing.

Thanks for the heads up and jolt. If the argument is so persuasive there is no need to resort.

 

[Hugh Januss]

You make me laugh. There is simply no point arguing with you if you think Race Radio has 'been absolutely correct'.


and a poster called goober.

n...gar please!

 

[BotanyBay]

Folks, remember that Floyd wore a wire for the investigation. Then got dumped by Bahaati.

Now remember that Floyd was convicted of a crime in France. Sort of not a good person to use as a prosecution witness, eh?

 

[DirtyWorks]

I can tell you without a doubt that this came as no surprise to anyone working the case. WITHOUT A DOUBT. This was supposed to happen the day before thanksgiving and all knew... And the interviewing witnesses up to the previous day - baloney....

I'm not saying Race Radio is right, but Goober's "without a doubt" isn't carrying much weight anymore.

 

[Velodude]

I'm not saying Race Radio is right, but Goober's "without a doubt" isn't carrying much weight anymore.

I have a suspicion that Goober is a geologist by profession. Has an obsessive fanaticism for rocks.

 

[MarkvW]

Folks, remember that Floyd wore a wire for the investigation. Then got dumped by Bahaati.

Now remember that Floyd was convicted of a crime in France. Sort of not a good person to use as a prosecution witness, eh?

I remember a real flame war awhile back when I suggested that Floyd's testimony required corroboration.

 

[Race Radio]

I remember a real flame war awhile back when I suggested that Floyd's testimony required corroboration.

You mean like Hincapie?

 

[Hugh Januss]

I remember a real flame war awhile back when I suggested that Floyd's testimony required corroboration.

Wouldn't a wire provide that?

 

[MarkvW]

Wouldn't a wire provide that?

Yes, if he got a good admission from somebody. But I haven't heard of any good admissions captured on tape.

 

[MarkvW]

You mean like Hincapie?

Sure. Hincapie corroborated doping. A long time ago. And, as you yourself have said, doping isn't enough. The feds would have to establish some kind of fraud good enough to survive the Statute of Limitations.

You attacked the statute of limitations because the feds knew what they were doing. Now you attack the feds . . . Maybe this was all just a little more complicated than your snarky sniping would infer.

 

[Ulle Relaxes]

Hilarious.

 

[jackwolf]

Not even close, Jack. If this favor was dropped into the oily gearbox of the executive branch, it is going to be an effective oil indeed. The DOJ and WhiteHouse press folks can trade horses too (and they do). They can effectiveky kill an issue (or make it quiet-down) by trading access to other things that the media is far more interested in. I don't think this case has the mass-interest that some of us might think it does. We're (or most of us are) too close to it to see that.

Remember, Birotte may have masters, but he is and was empowered to make such decisions. Obama will not tolerate the discrediting of an upwardly-mobile-rising-star US ATTY from the 'hoods of Newark. And no one above Birotte's level is going to talk about this. What don't we talk about?:

I suppose if we still don't know the truth about Kennedy, this should be a piece of cake to hush. On the other hand I can see the Republicans getting very interested if there's a good chance of exposing a clear case of corruption in the Obama administration. With the implied probability of Obama being re-elected at 62.5%* they might as well have a go. People are generally more interested in celebrities than in banks, even if the scale of the crimes involved are different by several orders of magnitude. If they manage to make the public see Armstrong for the real ***hole he is and then associate him with Obama, that could be a winner. I really haven't got a clue which way this will go.
I also wouldn't be surprised to see Armstrong bankrupt in the near future. Knowing his situation was desperate, he may have been milked for all he's worth by whoever had the power to stop that freight train coming at him.
EDIT: Afterthought: did the investigation go on for as long as it did so that enough evidence would be gathered for him to get desperate?

* Source: Betfair.

 

[palmerq]

looking back at his old posts this goober fellows predictions/posts are quite interesting, I think he might be onto something, I will wait for his book before making a final decision on him though :S

 

[jackwolf]

looking back at his old posts this goober fellows predictions/posts are quite interesting, I think he might be onto something, I will wait for his book before making a final decision on him though :S

The trick is to create a very large number of accounts and make a different set of predictions with each of them so all possibilities are covered. Then you start a fortune-telling business with the account that got it right.

 

[BotanyBay]

On the other hand I can see the Republicans getting very interested if there's a good chance of exposing a clear case of corruption in the Obama administration. With the implied probability of Obama being re-elected at 62.5%* they might as well have a go.

On this, I think your thinking is very solid. I think the only reason we've not yet seen a Repub congressman make a squawk is because the fear to tread on American heroes. A few more articles by the right people, making the right points, and I think we'll soon see some folks on Capitol Hill starting to look into this (and wanting answers).

I also wouldn't be surprised to see Armstrong bankrupt in the near future.

I fully predict an eventual bankruptcy for him. He paid a lot of money to make this case go away. And he'll continue to pay to keep it away.

Be sure to read what I wrote last night about Landis, his French conviction and how convictions look to jurors in cases like this. If these guys dug-up a lot of poop on Armstrong in 2 years, think about what they might have also dug-up on Hamilton (et all). You need to have witnesses that you can contrast against the defendant. If they all look like criminals, then the whole thing looks like a farce. Like a mob trial.

 

[BotanyBay]

Wouldn't a wire provide that?

Yes, but then the defense rolls-out his unanswered French hacking criminal case, which he allowed to go to the point of his conviction-in-absentia. Then they roll-out his pack of lies related to the '06 TDF doping case. Then they'll roll-out his phone call to Greg Lemond. And then his attempt to get a ride with The Shack.

I know we all know that what Floyd is saying is likely true, but we have to look at how a JURY will look at the evidence and then the defense strategy. Floyd would get fried.

 

[BotanyBay]

I remember a real flame war awhile back when I suggested that Floyd's testimony required corroboration.

And now that I think about it, Hamilton's going on 60 Minutes couldn't possibly have been embraced by the prosecution team. The more a witness opens his mouth outside of the courtroom, the more things the defense gets to pick-apart on 'cross.

There is the evidence, and then how the evidence LOOKS when presented by people who start to look bad in front of the jury.

I'm not saying we don't need a review anymore. I'm saying that I understand more as to why they might have chosen to dump the case.

Floyd might be a poison tree.

 

[ChrisE]

And now that I think about it, Hamilton's going on 60 Minutes couldn't possibly have been embraced by the prosecution team. The more a witness opens his mouth outside of the courtroom, the more things the defense gets to pick-apart on 'cross.

There is the evidence, and then how the evidence LOOKS when presented by people who start to look bad in front of the jury.

I'm not saying we don't need a review anymore. I'm saying that I understand more as to why they might have chosen to dump the case.

Floyd might be a poison tree.

Bingo.

Maybe you should just listen to me more instead of coming to these conclusions on your own.

 

[BillytheKid]

Saw a NBC Sports commercial yesterday which is thematic of an Olympic year. The resurrected Sir Lance in some of the the action sequences. I am reading tealeaves maybe, but it was like something from 2003…like all's never happened.

Not the commercial, but a new reality?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bG6MQxdRLdc&feature=related

 

[thehog]

And now that I think about it, Hamilton's going on 60 Minutes couldn't possibly have been embraced by the prosecution team. The more a witness opens his mouth outside of the courtroom, the more things the defense gets to pick-apart on 'cross.

There is the evidence, and then how the evidence LOOKS when presented by people who start to look bad in front of the jury.

I'm not saying we don't need a review anymore. I'm saying that I understand more as to why they might have chosen to dump the case.

Floyd might be a poison tree.

The Feds advised Hamilton not to appear on 60 Minutes.

Floyd was told to cut the GreyManrod stuff.

I would agree. Bring out some of those tweets and it all gets a little embarrassing.

In saying all that. You only need to transcribe the life that Hamilton and Floyd live now. Completely cut off. They only need to show a few emails, a few phone calls and the wire calls on how McQuaid and Armstrong went about destroying their lives.

Alas we count the days till the leaks start filtering out.... it will come. It will come slowly but it will come.

It won't mean a lot but at least we get a truer reflection on how cycling is managed.