US prosecutors drop case against Armstrong/USPS

[Polish]

Posting about LA is not necessarily obsessive-type behavior on this thread. Lurking around or trying to stir up emotions and playing contrarian might be a better example of 'obsessive' actions.

I disagree. Contrarian is a worse example.

BTW, interesting that "Good Karma" and the "Lance Effect" have so much in common. Do goods things for millions of people and good things will happen to you.

KarmaStrong!

 

[Escarabajo]

The only problem with this theory is that Armstrong never officially tested positive. I mean, he rode under USADA's 'watch', but they couldn't catch him. Now they want to go back in time to find him guilty? Their credibility will get ripped if it went to court.

IMO, dumb and a waste of time. Work on keeping today's 'sport' clean. That should take enough of your time and budget.

The case against Armstrong on just doping is a lot easier case than the one the FDA had on hand, IMHO. You can just sanction people based on many testimonies of riders an experts. Otherwise it would be a worthless case. At the same time it is easier to sanction a retired rider and tarnish his name than trying to put him on jail. I see the Leogrande case here.

 

[scribe]

After hearing of the closure of the investigation on NPR driving to the grocery store, I promptly returned home and burned the copy of "It's not about the Bike" my departed mother gave to me in my out door fire pit. Nothing remains of it or my interest in observing the sport of cycling at any level. I will ride to stay in shape, but that's it.

How is it possible you kept the book this long? Surely there are other items with a better inherent sentimental value than an Armstrong book.

 

[MarkvW]

After hearing of the closure of the investigation on NPR driving to the grocery store, I promptly returned home and burned the copy of "It's not about the Bike" my departed mother gave to me in my out door fire pit. Nothing remains of it or my interest in observing the sport of cycling at any level. I will ride to stay in shape, but that's it.

Touring!! Nothing beats it!!

 

[The Plediadian]

After hearing of the closure of the investigation on NPR driving to the grocery store, I promptly returned home and burned the copy of "It's not about the Bike" my departed mother gave to me in my out door fire pit. Nothing remains of it or my interest in observing the sport of cycling at any level. I will ride to stay in shape, but that's it.

Such strong emotions about a skinny little bike racer. I am so sorry. Big Lance fan here, but when my football team, the niners lost two weeks ago, I said to myself , nice run, better luck next year. For me as a cycling fan, to see Lance burn, would have burned pro cycling, and made it look even more ludicrous.
A successful prosecution of Armstrong would have accomplished nada, nunca zip, except to rile up a bunch of folk to hate cycling.
Better to get out in the fresh air, and appreciate life. Hate, life is to short for.

 

[patricknd]

How is it possible you kept the book this long? Surely there are other items with a better inherent sentimental value than an Armstrong book.

he was using it to keep his table level. he feels better for burning it but his coffee sloshes out of the cup a lot

 

[Maxiton]

After hearing of the closure of the investigation on NPR driving to the grocery store, I promptly returned home and burned the copy of "It's not about the Bike" my departed mother gave to me in my out door fire pit. Nothing remains of it or my interest in observing the sport of cycling at any level. I will ride to stay in shape, but that's it.

Cycle sport is either worth watching or it isn't. As of right now nothing in the sport has changed with this ruling. Perhaps we will see pro cycling further degraded and thus less enjoyable to watch, as the cycling mafia becomes bolder. But maybe that won't happen. Until it does, why not keep watching?

 

[skidmark]

Well, maybe it wasn't lobbying or money. Maybe Lance's lawyers had better slow-twitch muscles in the parts of their body used to practice law. Maybe they reconned the courtroom when the feds were just on vacation. Maybe they talk in the right ears at a higher cadence.

At least haters will still be able to have the schadenfreude of the 2010 Tour fail.

Now I'm going to stop thinking about retired racers.

 

[Benotti69]

I disagree. Contrarian is a worse example.

BTW, interesting that "Good Karma" and the "Lance Effect" have so much in common. Do goods things for millions of people and good things will happen to you.

KarmaStrong!

"Do goods things for millions of people and good things will happen to you"

At the last count it was 207 people!

Dopestrong, CheatStrong, FraudStrong, LieStrong, BullyStrong, LawyerUpStrong, BankStrong.

 

[patricknd]

Well, maybe it wasn't lobbying or money. Maybe Lance's lawyers had better slow-twitch muscles in the parts of their body used to practice law. Maybe they reconned the courtroom when the feds were just on vacation. Maybe they talk in the right ears at a higher cadence.

At least haters will still be able to have the schadenfreude of the 2010 Tour fail.

Now I'm going to stop thinking about retired racers.

maybe his lawyers were better responders. i've heard of that somewhere

 

[Polish]

maybe his lawyers were better responders. i've heard of that somewhere

maybe HWMNBN paid the FDA $500,000 to cover up a felony positive.
i've heard that somewhere too.

 

[patricknd]

maybe HWMNBN paid the FDA $500,000 to cover up a felony positive.
i've heard that somewhere too.

it must be true

 

[The Hitch]

Lance, if by high profile you mean connections to rich white men with friends in high places and something to lose.

Explain why the "white" is necessary?

Why do rich friends in high places have to be white. Why would black or hispanic or asian rich friends in high places not count?

 

[bammer]

All you LA haters now have even more reason to hate and disparage him. Get over, move on, and realize he did it clean and honest.

 

[patricknd]

Explain why the "white" is necessary?

Why do rich friends in high places have to be white. Why would black or hispanic or asian rich friends in high places not count?

cause those 3 guys were busy when it happened

 

[The Hitch]

Landis himself said that didn't happen as commonly told. They flushed his blood down the toilet alright, but they didn't do it out of spite: they did it with the blood of ALL the riders, because they reckoned they didn't need it, as they were making everybody look silly with their performance, and any further boost would be too over the top.

The embellished story apparently came from Vaughters, who either misremembered details, misunderstood Landis the first time around, or has a thing for good stories.

Speaking of Vaughters, I wonder what he thinks of this. He and his riders weren't saying anything publicly because of the federal investigation, but now that didn't go anywhere, and Landis and Hamilton have sacrificed themselves for naught. And Vaughters could save them with a mere word.

Which reminds me what of Hincapie? He testified right? Will Lance disown him or just fuggedaboudit?

 

[Polish]

Such strong emotions about a skinny little bike racer. I am so sorry. Big Lance fan here, but when my football team, the niners lost two weeks ago, I said to myself , nice run, better luck next year. For me as a cycling fan, to see Lance burn, would have burned pro cycling, and made it look even more ludicrous.
A successful prosecution of Armstrong would have accomplished nada, nunca zip, except to rile up a bunch of folk to hate cycling.
Better to get out in the fresh air, and appreciate life. Hate, life is to short for.

Bear's fan here. Da Bears.
Plan to tape the SuerBowl tomorrow and watch it later.
Fast forward through the "action" to get to the commercials.

Can't wait to see if HWMNBN is doing a Michelob Ultra spot.
Hope So.
Maybe Mr Novitzsky can make a Cameo sharing a beer with Lance.
Livestong bracelet and all.

Hope the mods reopen the official Lance thread by Superbowl.
Would like to discuss the Ad

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSbj5lW46lc&feature=youtube_gdata_player
.
.
.

 

[pmcg76]

All you LA haters now have even more reason to hate and disparage him. Get over, move on, and realize he did it clean and honest.

I hope you realise none of the Lance supportes on here think he done it clean and honest either.

Not even Polish, lol.

 

[Benotti69]

All you LA haters now have even more reason to hate and disparage him. Get over, move on, and realize he did it clean and honest.

Yeah and David Koresh was the second coming

 

[Velodude]

One of the themes here seems to be LA got of because he has lots of money. I'm wondering about that because since nothing had gone to trial,and no evidence was presented in court to defend against, what did LA spend money on? Maybe I'm getting something wrong here but it seems it's the US government that spent all the money.

Not just Armstrong had money, influence and political lobbying contacts

In rendering his decision on Friday, U.S. Attorney Andre Birotte Jr. said in a statement that his office was closing an investigation that looked at potential criminal conduct by members and associates of a racing team owned in part by Armstrong, indicating Armstrong wasn't the only one who could have faced charges

.
The "Champions Club" put together by Armstrong and comprising US persons of wealth and means to invest in Tailwind and write that investment off without the expectation of a financial return but only association opportunities with Armstrong.

These guys would have been co-defendants with Armstrong if he had been indicted. A lot of grief, humiliation and cost for writing off $200,000 + per annum per Champions Club member just for the odd ride with LA and preferential course seating.

They would have been calling up political favors to save their skins.

 

[Hugh Januss]

All you LA haters now have even more reason to hate and disparage him. Get over, move on, and realize he did it clean and honest.

I was gonna put up one of the "Obvious Troll is obvious" pictures that I find so funny. But then I thought to myself "maybe he's not a troll maybe he's just an idiot". So I'm inclined to give you the benefit of the doubt and not post the pic.
Have a great day!

 

[Polish]

Which reminds me what of Hincapie? He testified right? Will Lance disown him or just fuggedaboudit?

Big George did not testify.
You can bet he talked with Lance during the investigation though.
Might win that bet.
Think they are still friends. Dad stuff friends.

 

[guilder]

There is a reason why we have sayings such as "water under the bridge". But then again cycling isn't known for the brightest bulbs.

 

[peterst6906]

Yeah and David Koresh was the second coming

We're still waiting for the first coming, so no way someone as crazy as Koresh could be #2.

PS. Sorry to the people who have faith in divinity. No offence intended. It's just the left side of my brain, but I respect all the good that many congregations bring to the World.

 

[Velodude]

I think, as others have said, that USADA's statements about continuing the investigation are more window-dressing than anything else and that nothing is likely to occur beyond the press release that was issued yesterday.

After reading the entire WADA Code, it's my belief that Armstrong is not likely to be sanctioned by either USADA or WADA and that this whole thing will fade away. USADA and every other NGB (National Governing Body) that would have any jurisdiction over Armstrong or any event he may have participated in (and as to which an adverse finding might result in stripping him of a finishing result) adhere to the terms and conditions set forth in the WADA Code. As set forth therein, the Statute of Limitations for violations by an athlete could not be any clearer. It reads:

ARTICLE 17: STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS
No action may be commenced against an Athlete or other
Person for an anti-doping rule violation contained in the Code
unless such action is commenced within eight (8) years from
the date the violation is asserted to have occurred. [Emphasis added].

The WADA Statute of Limitations can be found at this link, on page 95.

So what does "commence an action" mean within the context of WADA and USADA?. Based on USADA's procedures, it would seem to mean something other than the mere opening of a fact-finding investigation. Instead it seems to mean when USADA actually notifies the athlete that it is bringing a formal charge against the athlete for suspected use of a prohibited substance contained on the WADA list. Based on what I've read-- and I admit of course that I have no first-hand experience with USADA enforcement actions-- this appears to typically occurs only after the athlete may have been notified that an analytical sample (an A or B sample) has been tested and resulted in a suspected laboratory finding that a substance on the prohibited list was contained in the sample. After that analytical finding is first made, the matter is then submitted to the Anti-Doping Review Board. That might be when, under USADA procedure, an "action" is first "commenced" but it's not clear from reading the Code. But it might also be at a later point than that: Even though the athlete is notified at the time an analytical finding is referred to the independent Anti-Doping Review Board, it's clear that the board itself would not have actually rendered any decision, and thus no "charge" would have been made against the athlete at that time. This is also consistent with the fact that there is no hearing allowed before the Anti-Doping Review Board and the athlete isn't permitted to participate at that point. In essence, this is because there is no formal charge yet assesed or made by the governing body against the athlete. Instead, it's not until after the Review Board first renders a finding that there has been an alleged violation, the athlete is then notified that he has the right to contest and participate in any hearing.

I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but it's my understanding that USADA has not yet actually brought any formal charge against Armstrong-- at least not yet-- for any violation of the Code, and both WADA and USADA and any other agency or NGB (national governing body) are all basically at the same point that the Justice Department and U.S Attorney's office weres at, i.e., at the investigatory stage and evidence-gathering stage, interviewing potential witnesses and and taking testimony from various sources. I don't think either USADA or WADA would assert that they have yet "commenced an action" against Armstrong. And it's now 2012, so the real question is, if no "action" has yet been "commenced", wouldn't it now be barred by WADA's own Statute of Limitations contained in the WADA Code?

Any action by USADA is not out of time and would embrace the 8 years back from 2010 to 2002.

USADA were running their investigation in parallel with and in travels with the Feds.

If you listen to the Irish radio interview with Pat McQuaid that had taken place within days of the public release of Floyd's emails he was pi**ed off with Floyd's timing.

None other than the clinic's resident legal expert has confirmed the above interpretation.

A recent USADA decision gives the oportunity to extend back beyond 8 years if certain circumstances exist.