USA Procycling Challenge 2013 (2.HC)

[Dazed and Confused]

GC after stage 4:

1 Tejay van Garderen (USA) BMC Racing Team 15:44:59
2 Mathias Frank (SUI) BMC Racing Team 0:00:04
3 Janier Acevedo (Col) Jamis-Hagens Berman 0:00:30
4 Thomas Danielson (USA) Garmin-Sharp 0:00:40
5 Lachlan David Morton (Aus) Garmin-Sharp 0:01:17
6 Gregory Brenes (Crc) Champion System 0:01:37
7 Darwin Atapuma (Col) Colombia 0:01:52
8 Damiano Caruso (Ita) Cannondale Pro Cycling 0:01:58
9 Rory Sutherland (Aus) Team Saxo-Tinkoff
10 Lucas Euser (USA) UnitedHealthcare

 

[postmanhat]

Looks like a real GC talent coming out of UK imo.

My heart agrees!

My head says be happy that he looks as good as a young Stannard, with added climbing

 

[Herr Katt]

When you're in a WT team you cannot participate in a U23 race

Think of the damage that Peter Sagan would've done mate when he was u23 last year.

 

[benpounder]

the fact that european riders when on altitude camp are often sick and need adaptation time, while riders like colombians come at home and neither need adaptation to lower altitudes either.

Anecdotal.

Training at high altitudes for more than just several weeks (think months) is beneficial. Blood necessarily has to carry more oxygen. However training at altitude saps pure strength - a trade-off certainly.

Ancillary, this is the reason that the USAPCC is hyper reluctant do a MTF on Pikes Peak. The marquis Pro Peloton stars would likely blow up.

 

[Moviefan1203]

Glad to see Tejay going well. He has a good chance to sweep the two big American stage races with a good time trial tomorrow.

 

[9000ft]

Anecdotal.

Training at high altitudes for more than just several weeks (think months) is beneficial. Blood necessarily has to carry more oxygen. However training at altitude saps pure strength - a trade-off certainly.

Ancillary, this is the reason that the USAPCC is hyper reluctant do a MTF on Pikes Peak. The marquis Pro Peloton stars would likely blow up.

Yeah, a lot of people clamor for a MTF on Pikes Peak or Evans but it just ain't (and probably shouldn't) for those reasons. If this was purely a race with Colorado riders it might be one thing, but the Euro peloton that rarely gets above 3000 meters? Not likely.

 

[Ferminal]

What do you mean? A bunch of continental riders and average European pro contis manage ok in China, why is Colorado different?

 

[Deagol]

What do you mean? A bunch of continental riders and average European pro contis manage ok in China, why is Colorado different?

How high do they get in China ? (honest question)
Edit: it looks like at least 12,000 feet. Pretty high. Not sure if that is the max elevation, but still pretty high in China.

Personally, I have raced Mount Evans in the past and it is a beast. Going from 10,000 feet to 12,000 feet was nothing like going from 12,000 to 14,000 feet. Also, riding it in "training" was nothing like riding it at race pace. It was brutal. Not sure how this would compare to China, but Tom D. holds the record on Evans and has also raced in China (I think) and probably could give a fair and accurate assessment. Also, Jonathan Vaughters has done this race and could compare. Scott Moniger, Lachlan Morton, Jeannie Longo.. there must be others. I've heard Pikes Peak is tougher than Mount Evans, but I have only ridden up the trail and not the road. The MTB ride up the trail on Pikes Peak was 10 times harder than riding a road bike up Mt Evans. I agree that racing up there is not practical. There isn't much room at all on the top of Evans and lightning exposure is a real danger in either place (summit of Evans & Pikes Peak).

 

[Dazed and Confused]

So the next challenge: 16km MTT which makes up stage 5.

Maybe Danielson can get the win, but this looks relatively open. Hopefully Caruso will be up there. TJVG should stay in leaders jersey after this.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Here we go from yesterday. Red and black dominates:

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Anecdotal.

Training at high altitudes for more than just several weeks (think months) is beneficial. Blood necessarily has to carry more oxygen. However training at altitude saps pure strength - a trade-off certainly.

Ancillary, this is the reason that the USAPCC is hyper reluctant do a MTF on Pikes Peak. The marquis Pro Peloton stars would likely blow up.

yeah I;m sure local colorado riders would beat seasoned wt climbers on it

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Yeah, a lot of people clamor for a MTF on Pikes Peak or Evans but it just ain't (and probably shouldn't) for those reasons. If this was purely a race with Colorado riders it might be one thing, but the Euro peloton that rarely gets above 3000 meters? Not likely.

I call bs. myabe the organiser doesn't want it for different reasons but don't go out and say european riders aren't suitable to it. qinghai lake goes to over 4000 metres and wt teams are there

btw there are uci races where they go to 5000 metres (bolivia) and there are even european teams there

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

So the next challenge: 16km MTT which makes up stage 5.

Maybe Danielson can get the win, but this looks relatively open. Hopefully Caruso will be up there. TJVG should stay in leaders jersey after this.

is this the same itt from last years? I can see acevedo take in huge time here. maybe not on van garderen but probably most others he will. what are the gradients?

 

[Dazed and Confused]

is this the same itt from last years? I can see acevedo take in huge time here. maybe not on van garderen but probably most others he will. what are the gradients?

same route as '11. Result:

1 Levi Leipheimer (USA) RadioShack 25:47
2 Christian Vande Velde (USA) Garmin-Cervelo
3 Rafael Infantino Abreu (Col) EPM - UNE + 0:04
4 Thomas Danielson (USA) Garmin-Cervelo + 0:33
5 Stef Clement (Ned) Rabobank + 0:40
6 Tejay Van Garderen (USA) HTC-Highroad + 0:51
7 David Zabriskie (USA) Garmin-Cervelo + 0:59
8 Jens Voigt (Ger) Leopard Trek + 1:01
9 Cadel Evans (Aus) BMC Racing
10 George Hincapie (USA) BMC Racing + 1:11

Don't have details of climb.

 

[search]

is this the same itt from last years? I can see acevedo take in huge time here. maybe not on van garderen but probably most others he will. what are the gradients?

same course as 2011 as far as I can see

http://www.tracks4bikers.com/tracks/show/155098

 

[jens_attacks]

quite an awesome stage. even timed the ascent. keeping in mind the altitude of the effort, from 2200 to 2900 meters, that was uber fast

http://climbing-records.blogspot.com/2013/08/the-best-riders-storm-over-bachelor.html

i expect tejay to beat them all tonight, he has the form

 

[benpounder]

I call bs.

...

btw there are uci races where they go to 5000 metres (bolivia) and there are even european teams there

We are talking about top WT riders, not conti teams with primarily BOL, VEN, COL, and MEX riders.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

that's why in the past we've seen countries like colombia organise world class races with many top level european teams there and climbing well over 3000 metres like gp pony malta and clasico rcn

 

[Arredondo]

This course suits Acevedo, i think he can hold Danielson behind him. Will be a victory for TJ though

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

the climb isn;t hard though. 25 minutes in 16 km is almost 40 km/h average out of my head I think. I expect also strong brenes today.

 

[Deagol]

This course suits Acevedo, i think he can hold Danielson behind him. Will be a victory for TJ though

I also don't think Tom D. will win this stage (or the overall), but will be top 5.

As far as previous posts discussing altitude, here is my 2 cents: how riders react to really high altitude is only one of several factors affecting the feasibility of racing in such places. Narrow roads, exposure to weather, lack of space also are factors. Someone in really good shape from low altitude can usually beat a regular rider who lives at higher altitude (add in certain "enhancements" that many riders are know to have done, and altitude advantage is even further diminished). Without taking this to the clinic, no further explanation is needed. I am reminded of LA destroying Dave Weins (who lives at altitude year round) on Powerline at Leadville 100 MTB race a few years back. So, I would expect WT riders to do pretty well at altitude, relatively speaking. Henrik Djernis (spelling?) from the Netherlands also won the world MTB championships at Vail back in the 90's. Altitude can be "overcome". People from sea level have climed Mt Everest... but now I'm getting too far off topic

 

[Deagol]

yeah I;m sure local colorado riders would beat seasoned wt climbers on it

I don't think that was what he was saying. The Columbians would obviously do very well. Also lots of the "local Colorado Riders" also happen to be seasoned WT climbers including Tom D, TJVG, etc.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

danielson and vanm garderne aren't even from colorado. how are they in any way seasoned

 

[Deagol]

danielson and vanm garderne aren't even from colorado. how are they in any way seasoned

They both live in Boulder, have been living here for years, they have been racing in the WT for years, what a stupid post

 

[slosada]

I also don't think Tom D. will win this stage (or the overall), but will be top 5.

As far as previous posts discussing altitude, here is my 2 cents: how riders react to really high altitude is only one of several factors affecting the feasibility of racing in such places. Narrow roads, exposure to weather, lack of space also are factors. Someone in really good shape from low altitude can usually beat a regular rider who lives at higher altitude (add in certain "enhancements" that many riders are know to have done, and altitude advantage is even further diminished). Without taking this to the clinic, no further explanation is needed. I am reminded of LA destroying Dave Weins (who lives at altitude year round) on Powerline at Leadville 100 MTB race a few years back. So, I would expect WT riders to do pretty well at altitude, relatively speaking. Henrik Djernis (spelling?) from the Netherlands also won the world MTB championships at Vail back in the 90's. Altitude can be "overcome". People from sea level have climed Mt Everest... but now I'm getting too far off topic

I think you are mixing some things here. I'm not an expert by any means but this is what I have read:
1. Several studies have proved that the best combination is live high train low, giving the boost to the O2 transport by living in altitude, and preventing the muscle mass loss that accompany the altitude training.
2. Individual response to altitude stimulus varies.
3. Altitude effects are marginals, but at pro level it can make a difference.
4. Competence in altitude is a different topic: For lowland athletes it's better to compete as soon as arriving to high altitude, or to acclimate for at least 3 weeks.
5. It takes months to climb the Everest, and there are several camps before reaching the summit.
6. Items 3 and 4, plus the clinic stuff may explain LA performance in the MTB race.