USADA - Armstrong

[mewmewmew13]

It was rumoured on Twitter that Dr. Celaya has opted for an arbitration. Can anyone confirm and if so will it be open or closed? When will it begin?

If Celaya's arbitration starts right away and Armstrong's is delayed 30 days won't that give Armstrong's defence a golden opportunity to find out who the witnesses are and then "convince" one or more of them that they were threatened by USADA?

I was actually thinking with the 'bribe 'comment that if somehow lance could 'persuade' Celaya to go ahead with the arb that it would indeed give him some valuable information....along with your line of reasoning. ...as in 'make it worth your while'- type offer.

It's because I wouldn't put anything past him when it comes to a fight.

 

[Cimacoppi49]

When would arbitration for Celaya(sp) start? Before the 30 days?

No. It would likely not start until the end of October at the earliest.

 

[Anonymous]

Now that at least one of the others has asked for a hearing, it seems to me the evidence must come out.

Yeah, appears so.

In that case it's all (or most) going to be out there. LA has nothing to bargain for or with.

There would certainly be no deal then.

Good.

 

[Kender]

one question i still have nagging at me since i had a chat with a collegue at work...

lets say this goes to closed arbitration and the evidence is not released publicly.

No matter the result (bans or aquittals), we still have 10+ witnesses, some of who (if what we've been led to believe is true) have confessed to doping or aiding the use of dopig products.

Will they still be handed out sanctions even if their testimonies are never aired publicly?

 

[Ninety5rpm]

well for a start the WADA release was in response to media queries not Pat (and the UCI) so he's missed the mark for intent.

however it does in a way tell Pat that yes USADA can ban them for life and if the UCI dont agree they will have to appeal the ban

Did Pat/UCI ever indicate they don't agree?

 

[ManInFull]

Now that at least one of the others has asked for a hearing, it seems to me the evidence must come out.

That's really all that I want. I have no faith in USADA or any other agency banning Armstrong or taking any of his titles. Allowing us to read the evidence and deciding for ourselves will be more than enough for me.

 

[MarkvW]

If Armstrong wins the jurisdictional issue and proceeds in federal court, I would expect USADA to counterclaim for the doping offenses and have that tried in open federal court. That's totally separate from the issue of whether Armstrong could obtain injunctive relief during the pendency of the federal action.

Last thing Lance would want. The utter demolition of his reputation in full-on protracted public view.

 

[mewmewmew13]

I think it is safe to speculate that one of the ten is Tommy.

Tommy and his business with his ex-wife are off limits for me, I would not like to dig up sore personal subjects but I am sure the echo chamber around here does not mind to bring it up.

In the end once the facts are known to the judge usada will be ruled as in fact acted as a state actor etc. That would be my opinion.

Fgs the only reason that that was brought up was because you sounded so incredulous that I actually mentioned the word 'bribe' and 'Armstrong' in the same breath and did I 'honestly believe' that he was capable of that!?

Now can we get past this?

 

[Cimacoppi49]

well for a start the WADA release was in response to media queries not Pat (and the UCI) so he's missed the mark for intent.

however it does in a way tell Pat that yes USADA can ban them for life and if the UCI dont agree they will have to appeal the ban

McQuaid commented earlier in the day that he didn't understand how a ban could be effective. WADA just told him and made clear that they can take the UCI to CAS if need be.

Sure they released their statement in response to press inquiries. The timing was for Pat's, err, edification.

 

[Cimacoppi49]

Last thing Lance would want. The utter demolition of his reputation in full-on protracted public view.

With the likelihood of deposition testimony being made public before the trial.

 

[Deagol]

no. if a jury finds him not guilty of doping he can fly the victimized marytr route and his rep gets restored once and for all

While this would be horrible, the rep won't get fully restored. Think about OJ Simpson.

 

[college]

See post #4993,

Wrong. Read the posts by merxindex that are before my post. See those posts please

 

[Cimacoppi49]

one question i still have nagging at me since i had a chat with a collegue at work...

lets say this goes to closed arbitration and the evidence is not released publicly.

No matter the result (bans or aquittals), we still have 10+ witnesses, some of who (if what we've been led to believe is true) have confessed to doping or aiding the use of dopig products.

Will they still be handed out sanctions even if their testimonies are never aired publicly?

They will likely get whatever deals they cut before testifying. They are free to tell the public what they said. Do ya think Lance would agree to a public arbitration? Rhetorical question.

 

[Ninety5rpm]

one question i still have nagging at me since i had a chat with a collegue at work...

lets say this goes to closed arbitration and the evidence is not released publicly.

No matter the result (bans or aquittals), we still have 10+ witnesses, some of who (if what we've been led to believe is true) have confessed to doping or aiding the use of dopig products.

Will they still be handed out sanctions even if their testimonies are never aired publicly?

As far as I can tell, the USADA agreed not to charge those who, unlike Armstrong, "agreed to meet with USADA and to truthfully and fully describe their involvement in doping and all doping by others of which they were aware".

Makes you wonder: what if he had agreed to come clean about everything in exchange for keeping his titles? If that ship was ever in port, I presume it has long sailed by now.

 

[Deagol]

Wrong. Read the posts by merxindex that are before my post. See those posts please

Is that the "Texas Hammer" you refer to?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

one question i still have nagging at me since i had a chat with a collegue at work...

lets say this goes to closed arbitration and the evidence is not released publicly.

No matter the result (bans or aquittals), we still have 10+ witnesses, some of who (if what we've been led to believe is true) have confessed to doping or aiding the use of dopig products.

Will they still be handed out sanctions even if their testimonies are never aired publicly?

I would expect all to get a sanction - however as they already will have admitted their doping it will be dealt with swiftly and without fuss.

We have often seen a press release (like yesterdays) saying the athletes have accepted their sanction and no other information.

But because I expect LA to fight this, the details will probably come out.

 

[knewcleardaze]

Looks like LA's lawyers are earning their money. Their 80 page filing for a TRO just bought LA another 30 days.
As much as I hate to say this, something will be brokered. Monies will be paid, restitution will be made, and all terms will be sealed. This will go away quietly, unfortunately. I seriously doubt LA is headed to the poor house.
I would be pleasantly surprised should they negate any of his previous accomplishments. Strip him of a few TdF titles, so what?
Ban him for life, so what? He's got his pile o' cash.
He's been clapped out for sometime now anyway.
Narcissists and sociopaths find a way to live their lives.

 

[Kender]

While this would be horrible, the rep won't get fully restored. Think about OJ Simpson.

and where is the OJ Simpson Cancer Foundation?

Lance has a cleaner non sport related image which he can fall back on and claim he was a victim. He is also not being tried for murder.

His rep will never be what it was, but a vindication in court with not guilty will help more than in OJ's case

 

[Kender]

As far as I can tell, the USADA agreed not to charge those who, unlike Armstrong, "agreed to meet with USADA and to truthfully and fully describe their involvement in doping and all doping by others of which they were aware".

Makes you wonder: what if he had agreed to come clean about everything in exchange for keeping his titles? If that ship was ever in port, I presume it has long sailed by now.

they can't NOT sanction someone for admitting offenses. The most they are allowed to do is give a 3/4 reduction in sanctions (2 years down to 6 months)

my question has been answered by other posters and it's as i suspected, that they would still receive their sanctions.


as for the coming clean and keep his titles? yes indeed, that ship would have sailed when he declined to meet with USADA originally (if it was ever even a consideration USADA might have taken). That's where the other witnesses will have received their reduced sanctions for compliance.

As soon as he was charged there was no way this would be negotioable

 

[Ninety5rpm]

I would expect all to get a sanction - however as they already will have admitted their doping it will be dealt with swiftly and without fuss.

We have often seen a press release (like yesterdays) saying the athletes have accepted their sanction and no other information.

But because I expect LA to fight this, the details will probably come out.

If they're going to get charged and sanctioned anyway, why did they talk?

EDIT: Okay, I see your answer above. So they talked with the understanding that they would get a reduced sanction if they talked?

 

[131313]

no. if a jury finds him not guilty of doping he can fly the victimized marytr route and his rep gets restored once and for all

you mean kinda like OJ? IDK, once the testimony is out in the public domain, I think most of the remaining undecideds will reach their own conclusions and it won't be good. The True Believers can cling to it, but they'll cling to it regardless of the decision.

 

[Anonymous]

and where is the OJ Simpson Cancer Foundation?

Lance has a cleaner non sport related image which he can fall back on and claim he was a victim. He is also not being tried for murder.

His rep will never be what it was, but a vindication in court with not guilty will help more than in OJ's case

Gotta disagree with this.

He would be less harmed had he killed someone. This goes to the very heart of what Lance represents himself to be.

Everything, I mean everything, any Lance fan ever thought they knew about him will be exposed as a lie.

OJ was a well know womanizer/wife beater. Killing his wife, while tragic, was not that far-fetched.

Lance is on his bike, 6 hours a day bustin' his ****, what are you on? That stuff is all going to get shattered.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

If they're going to get charged and sanctioned anyway, why did they talk?

EDIT: Okay, I see your answer above. So they talked with the understanding that they would get a reduced sanction if they talked?

Not necessarily.

Remember many of these guys ride for Garmin and they asked all to co-operate with any investigation:

We expect anyone in our organization who is contacted by any cycling, anti-doping, or government authority will be open and honest with that authority. In that context, we expect nothing short of 100% truthfulness – whatever that truth is – to the questions they are asked. As long as they express the truth about the past to the appropriate parties, they will continue to have a place in our organization and we will support them for living up to the promise we gave the world when we founded Slipstream Sports.”

 

[Deagol]

and where is the OJ Simpson Cancer Foundation?

Lance has a cleaner non sport related image which he can fall back on and claim he was a victim. He is also not being tried for murder.

His rep will never be what it was, but a vindication in court with not guilty will help more than in OJ's case

Of course, I was not saying that the two cases were identical. The point was that even when OJ was acquitted, his reputation took a serious blow. If Lance gets off on this, his reputation will still ,already has, take/taken a serious blow. End of comparison

Edit: I don't think he can easily fall back on the cancer charity thing either, as it was sort of built on lies to begin with. A lot of those lies are now well-known.

 

[PedalPusher]

WADA just fired a shot over McQuaid's bow.
http://velonews.competitor.com/?p=229112

Well, the Hog and Lance's bow....Lance just lost his jurisdiction argument...