USADA - Armstrong

[Cimacoppi49]

and where is the OJ Simpson Cancer Foundation?

Lance has a cleaner non sport related image which he can fall back on and claim he was a victim. He is also not being tried for murder.

His rep will never be what it was, but a vindication in court with not guilty will help more than in OJ's case

Q. Did OJ ever have cancer?
A. No.
Q. No further questions, your Honor.

 

[Cimacoppi49]

Well, the Hog and Lance's bow....Lance just lost his jurisdiction argument...

It would not surprise me if WADA filed a friend of the court brief on the jurisdictional issue in support of USADA. Perhaps the USOC will also do so.

 

[Cimacoppi49]

Of course, I was not saying that the two cases were identical. The point was that even when OJ was acquitted, his reputation took a serious blow. If Lance gets off on this, his reputation will still ,already has, take/taken a serious blow. End of comparison

Edit: I don't think he can easily fall back on the cancer charity thing either, as it was sort of built on lies to begin with. A lot of those lies are now well-known.

In public statements the ED of the foundation has already started to distance the organization from Armstrong. There are already increasing numbers of po'ed people in the cancer community that will no longer have anything to do with Armstrong. It's only going to get worse no matter what the eventual verdict turns out to be.

 

[PedalPusher]

It would not surprise me if WADA filed a friend of the court brief on the jurisdictional issue in support of USADA. Perhaps the USOC will also do so.

Even if they didn't, the rules are clear, whether he has a "contract" with USADA which he did by getting an international license through USA Cycling or the UCI, because they are all signatories with WADA, and they all fall under those rules.

USADA simply shows his USA Cycling License (edit for dumbassery) and the rules, mandating arbitration. I really can't see the judge undoing arbitration.

Even the UCI ADR says he has to comply with USADA testing and adjudication, matter of fact anyone in the US that has a license. The only thing I can think of, like 2011 ToC where USADA and the UCI couldn't reach an agreement on testing and UCI did it all( surprising...) IIRC USADA wanted control management and so did the ToC organizers..maybe there is something we are missing in all this..

 

[red_flanders]

Remember many of these guys ride for Garmin and they asked all to co-operate with any investigation:

I can't see how that would protect them from sanctions?

 

[Kender]

I can't see how that would protect them from sanctions?

it doesn't. however their jobs on the other hand...

JV said noone would lose their job if they told the truth i believe. looking for source

edit... can't find link yet and i dont have time atm to look further

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I can't see how that would protect them from sanctions?

??
Not sure how you got that, as i said earlier....

I would expect all to get a sanction - however as they already will have admitted their doping it will be dealt with swiftly and without fuss.

We have often seen a press release (like yesterdays) saying the athletes have accepted their sanction and no other information.

But because I expect LA to fight this, the details will probably come out.

 

[BroDeal]

and where is the OJ Simpson Cancer Foundation?

Lance has a cleaner non sport related image which he can fall back on and claim he was a victim. He is also not being tried for murder.

His rep will never be what it was, but a vindication in court with not guilty will help more than in OJ's case

Not necessarily. I think this is a situation where Armstrong's protective facade gradually gets chipped away. Every bit of evidence chisels off a little more armor. Eventually there will be a turning point in popular culture where everyone "knows" he is a lying doper. At that point it no longer becomes viable for people to question the popular wisdom. It becomes a universal truth. If he is still lying at that time then he will become a comedic figure.

It's the Pauly Shore effect. Dislike of him had been rising for a few years but he went one Biodome too far and--snap!--_everyone_ disliked him. He never made a theater released film afterward.

 

[Ninety5rpm]

(deleted nonconstructive commentary)

 

[nighttrain]

Gotta disagree with this.

He would be less harmed had he killed someone. This goes to the very heart of what Lance represents himself to be.

Everything, I mean everything, any Lance fan ever thought they knew about him will be exposed as a lie.

OJ was a well know womanizer/wife beater. Killing his wife, while tragic, was not that far-fetched.

Lance is on his bike, 6 hours a day bustin' his ****, what are you on? That stuff is all going to get shattered.

Spot on, S_SoCal! I'd forgotten that commercial and overlooked how eerily relevant it is to Wiggo's recent outburst. I predict he accepts the USADA sanctions, publicly bemoans them as unjustice/mean-spirited, and starts his own MTB race series to support LAF.

 

[Cimacoppi49]

Spot on, S_SoCal! I'd forgotten that commercial and overlooked how eerily relevant it is to Wiggo's recent outburst. I predict he accepts the USADA sanctions, publicly bemoans them as unjustice/mean-spirited, and starts his own MTB race series to support LAF.

From your lips to God's ears.

 

[Weapons of @ss Destruction]

USADA simply shows his UCI license (if he doesn't have a USA Cycling one)

He has to have a license from a national cycling federation. UCI doesn't issue licenses, other than through these NCFs. If Armstrong's license was issued by any other NCF it would have been big news already for multiple reasons.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Not necessarily. I think this is a situation where Armstrong's protective facade gradually gets chipped away. Every bit of evidence chisels off a little more armor. Eventually there will be a turning point in popular culture where everyone "knows" he is a lying doper. At that point it no longer becomes viable for people to question the popular wisdom. It becomes a universal truth. If he is still lying at that time then he will become a comedic figure.

It's the Pauly Shore effect. Dislike of him had been rising for a few years but he went one Biodome too far and--snap!--_everyone_ disliked him. He never made a theater released film afterward.

Agree, and its already happening.

Look at the way this forum has turned in the last 3 years - it has gone from lots saying "you cannot say that without evidence", "no proof" etc to now arguing that he may escape a ban because of some Fed case, not because he didnt dope.

As someone said earlier, its "death by a thousand cuts" - he might be like Clemens and win some minor victory along the way (maybe he'll get to keep his junior national 25mile TT ) but he will be known as a doper and a fraud.

 

[Microchip]

... (maybe he'll get to keep his junior national 25mile TT ) but he will be known as a doper and a fraud.

Maybe he'll keep the 4th place result in the freestyle event when he was 12.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

From your lips to God's ears.

I could even live with a deal where all results from 2009 on are erased, and at least one TdF-"Title". Then, for every human with a brain, all his "wins" are tainted by logic. After that, the press (hopefully) does the rest: repeatedly discuss the 99 epo & cortico positives, the hemassist, the abnormal testo levels, printing interviews by those who talked (about blood doping, bribes, etc., etc.).

 

[ggusta]

Agree, and its already happening.

Look at the way this forum has turned in the last 3 years - it has gone from lots saying "you cannot say that without evidence", "no proof" etc to now arguing that he may escape a ban because of some Fed case, not because he didnt dope.

As someone said earlier, its "death by a thousand cuts" - he might be like Clemens and win some minor victory along the way (maybe he'll get to keep his junior national 25mile TT ) but he will be known as a doper and a fraud.

Don't forget that Clemens won in court but is a shadow of what he was 6 or 7 years ago in the eyes of the public and may not ever get into the hall of fame. I think winning in court is a pyrrhic victory for both of them compared to the bruising they take when evidence and testimony comes out. They can point at people and say liar all you want, they sat their on the stand under penalty of perjury for what? To lie about you doping? Come on. No one's that dumb. Well the trolls posting here might be, but that's likely because they have some personal interest. The groupies just want the truth to go away so they can go on with their idol in a fool's paradise.

 

[veganrob]

Maybe he'll keep the 4th place result in the freestyle event when he was 12.

Classic.

2 more char

 

[Ninety5rpm]

Gotta disagree with this.

He would be less harmed had he killed someone. This goes to the very heart of what Lance represents himself to be.

Everything, I mean everything, any Lance fan ever thought they knew about him will be exposed as a lie.

OJ was a well know womanizer/wife beater. Killing his wife, while tragic, was not that far-fetched.

Lance is on his bike, 6 hours a day bustin' his ****, what are you on? That stuff is all going to get shattered.

Lance Armstrong Ad - I'm on my bike, what are you on?

 

[red_flanders]

it doesn't. however their jobs on the other hand...

JV said noone would lose their job if they told the truth i believe.

Got it, misunderstood the intent.

 

[Topangarider]

I think we would all like the LA case to play out in a public forum - either a federal trial or open arbitration at USADA and/or CAS

IF it goes the route of closed arbitration, couldn't many details find their way into the press if

1) one or more of the defendants (other than LA) chooses an open arbitration
2) witnesses for USADA talk to the press
3) USADA issues a statement at the culmination of the process that sheds light on some (but not all) of the previously undisclosed details of the conspiracy
4) USADA leaks to the press

Other avenues?

It seems like USADA has contempt for UCI leadership but only a public airing of the case would have the potential to bring down corrupt officials (since none are now charged).

No way USADA will leak now, but is there any history of them leaking at strategic times or at the end of a closed arbitration case?

 

[Cimacoppi49]

Maybe he'll keep the 4th place result in the freestyle event when he was 12.

That's cold. Very cold. But funny.

 

[red_flanders]

??
Not sure how you got that, as i said earlier....

Possibly because I don't read every post? Sorry, misunderstood what you meant.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Possibly because I don't read every post? Sorry, misunderstood what you meant.

Ha, no worries.

"Sometimes you're the hammer, and ....."

 

[thehog]

(deleted nonconstructive commentary)

I think with the passing of time he becomes more and more irrelevant. As the Gen Y'ers come through they'll actually have no idea who he is. He's been out of mainstream press for sometime. It's not like he's in Vanity Fair and appearing on Letterman anymore. The only press be gets is drug related. That will wear thin and anyone who young enough won't actually know what it's about.

It's only the few aging vocal Tribards holding on to the myth. Even if he gets off what's he going to do next? More Triathlon's. He's finished, washed up and done.

Probably a good message to Wiggins. Enjoy it now because at sometime in your life it could be all gone.

 

[PedalPusher]

He has to have a license from a national cycling federation. UCI doesn't issue licenses, other than through these NCFs. If Armstrong's license was issued by any other NCF it would have been big news already for multiple reasons.

Thanks for clearing that up, That's what I thought, but didn't research that hard on the UCI's website, wasn't sure though. Found the info.

So I really don't know what he's trying to argue here with the whole "no contract" with USADA. USADA manages the doping control for all USA Cycling licensed riders.