USADA - Armstrong

[ChrisE]

Wasnt it Horner who said that today. Stop focusing on the past and concentrate on today......can you not see that if he is convicted it would be a huge deterrent on dopers today. The realisation that you can be caught at any time. You let it go because it happened ages ago and you only cement the notion that cheating can benefit you. Even if he is cleared it still puts fear into those who want to dope. Lance would be creating doping awareness...that you could be caught..
Any talk of waste of money etc is another deflection tactic that doesnt sound like its coming from an innocent party.

BS. LA is in this mess because FL spilled the beans in 2010. This is not a deterrent, and will be a galactic cluster**** before it is all over.

Yeah, it is a deterrant to ignoring unstable former doped associates when they ask you for a job lol.

 

[Pazuzu]

If USADA can make this case stick Armstrong will be done. Done in the sense that his reputation will be finished, his future career opportunities in cycling or politics will be minimized, he'll probably be sued and who knows what else happens. Imo that is fair.

However striping him of the victories and either give the wins to guys like ullrich & basso or vacating the titles imo does nothing but bad for cycling.

I completely agree and am cautiously optimistic that finally something will stick and Armstrong will no longer be able to bask in fake glory. Regarding Armstrong's TDF titles, it's too late (and problematic given the prevalence of doping at that time) to give them to anyone else. Although I disagree that vacating the titles would necessarily be a bad thing for cycling. At the very least though, there needs to be a fat asterisk next to Armstrong's name for those years.

 

[roadfreak44]

Wasnt it Horner who said that today. Stop focusing on the past and concentrate on today......can you not see that if he is convicted it would be a huge deterrent on dopers today. The realisation that you can be caught at any time. You let it go because it happened ages ago and you only cement the notion that cheating can benefit you. Even if he is cleared it still puts fear into those who want to dope. Lance would be creating doping awareness...that you could be caught..
Any talk of waste of money etc is another deflection tactic that doesnt sound like its coming from an innocent party.

The thing aobut all this thta I find amazing is thta USADA has not been able to inspite of amny amny tests in the us been able to find anything worong now htey say based upon anecdotal eveidence fofered by people who obviosuly have an axe to grind that they have "proof" what this is truly proof of is the simple fact that USADA is incompetent. If LA is found to have doped fine kick his A** but also thta will proive thta USADA ids likewaise culpable as enablers of the practice given their incompetenc enad there shoudl defrintley be heads rolling there. In fact if thta is the cas ehtne the dsalries paid all thise testers, officials and managers at usada should be paid back to the US government by virtue of their gross incompetence.

 

[Master50]

I just read the USADA letter and isn't Contador part of the team while at Astana?

 

[noddy69]

BS. LA is in this mess because FL spilled the beans in 2010. This is not a deterrent, and will be a galactic cluster**** before it is all over.

Yeah, it is a deterrant to ignoring unstable former doped associates when they ask you for a job lol.

Disagree, I believe it will be some deterrent to those who want to dope but we can agree to disagree. As for why he is in the mess, well its from surrounding himself with dopers and claiming innocence himself, it was always gonna blow up eventually, and hopefully with a defining result.

Its got to be more of a deterrent than closing your eyes and doing nothing cause it happened a while ago. And good if its a giant mess, it might clean things up a bit.

 

[131313]

+1
This is only gonna destroy the reputation of cycling.
Come on how long ago is this 13 years ago???
The past is the past they should just leave it behind.
Too bad they didn't charge lance 13 years ago.

Please....STOP!! Stop with the lying and misinformation and pull your head out of your rear.

First, the most recent alleged infractions are LESS THAN 2 YEARS AGO!!! 2010 isn't that long ago!

Secondly, all of the named conspirators are still involved in cycling (though in Ferrari's case it would seem, illegally). In case you haven't noticed Bruyneel is still running a team??

You can't possibly be serious with this "past is the past" nonsense? Obviously Bruyneel and Co ran out of money to pay for their dope this season, so I guess they get a pass in 2012...but is last year too long ago??

Please, stop being ridiculous.

 

[taiwan]

Ridiculous that these forum newbies think that it's a bad thing that someone should be sanctioned for cheating.

Others claiming he did not use performance enhancers are improbably naive.

These positions don't agree or make sense.

 

[ChrisE]

I just read the USADA letter and isn't Contador part of the team while at Astana?

Yes. I bet AC is overjoyed right about now. LA finally gets his comeuppance for being mean to him at dinner and taking his wheels.

 

[noddy69]

Ridiculous that these forum newbies think that it's a bad thing that someone should be sanctioned for cheating.

Others claiming he did not use performance enhancers are improbably naive.

These positions don't agree or make sense.

I am offended by that comment...maybe all the others are defending him

 

[MarkvW]

Ridiculous that these forum newbies think that it's a bad thing that someone should be sanctioned for cheating.

Others claiming he did not use performance enhancers are improbably naive.

These positions don't agree or make sense.

I wouldn't necessarily assume that the posts are from forum newbies. Don't discount the possibility that the "newbie" posts are just from one person, recently banned.

 

[ChrisE]

Ridiculous that these forum newbies think that it's a bad thing that someone should be sanctioned for cheating.

Others claiming he did not use performance enhancers are improbably naive.

These positions don't agree or make sense.

Wow I have never spoken to a whole country before.

Nobody here thinks people should not be punished for doing wrong. Without rules and punishment in society there would be chaos.

It is a question of diminishing returns. If you are good with the bull in a China closet (hope you are offended by that reference, taiwan) approach to punishment then that is your opinion.

Some of us believe that a little more tact could be more of a benefit than blind punishment for wrongdoing. This happens all the time, btw. You will understand why soon enough.

 

[ChrisE]

wait until the press start asking whether Armstrong's doping was a factor in the development of his cancer. Once that starts to sink in the cancer community, he may not be such an inspirational figure.

It will probably go about like this:

LA: I have never doped.
Press: Do you think your doping caused your cancer?
LA: Are you an idiot, or is the **** in your brain clogging your ears?

 

[BillytheKid]

This is going to be a huge legal battle in the end. The fact that the doctors are named is not good news for Armstrong, but we'll have to see what the evidence is.

More than just biopassport.

I am sure that Armtsrong and Co. have had some knowlegde that this was coming. Press reports at this point are often sketchy. While some think this a good thing, I not 100% on it for the sake of the sport here.

A lot of federations and angencies similar to the USADA would not have gone to such lengths to back track an investigation. Some riders are simply protected by their countries.

New detection methods are evolving however. This may not end at Armstrong and spill out onto current riders if the ruling stands. Is WADA strong enough to force more action against other riders like Contador, who rode under Bruyneel and on the same Astana team?

No. Nothing like this will come at Alberto.

If Armstrong is subjected to back testing with new methods, then all pros in the same time period should under go the same scrutiny. But then we near some kind of Vietnam kind of mentality. The famous quote from some U.S. Army commander: "In order to save the villiage, we had to destroy it."

The whole sport could go.

Bicycle racing once died out in the U.S. despite being strong form 1900 to 1930. It may happen again. Sponsorship will be even harder to obtain. Parents will want to keep their kids from such a "taited" sport.

Testing should go forward from the present. People want justice and I can understand that, but again, if the same scrutiny is not applied to all then it does appear to be a vendetta aimed a one rider. Fignon admitted to doping, but was dying of cancer. Had he had another fate, would he have made the admission? Have his tour titles been taken away?
Is anyone suggesting that?

Lance's great mistake is he wanted more and has won him few friends. As for other greats, they will remain great dispite known doping.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

please don't feed the trolls.

bunch of newbies just sprung up and all have the same m.o. with every new post.

don't engage.

+1 Exactly. As expected the misinformation police has come out in full swing with the same tired talking points. I would be great if people just ignored them and discussed the case.

 

[ChrisE]

Disagree, I believe it will be some deterrent to those who want to dope but we can agree to disagree. As for why he is in the mess, well its from surrounding himself with dopers and claiming innocence himself, it was always gonna blow up eventually, and hopefully with a defining result.

Its got to be more of a deterrent than closing your eyes and doing nothing cause it happened a while ago. And good if its a giant mess, it might clean things up a bit.

FL and most in this sport (and just about any professional sport) came into it with eyes wide open, and he was an adult with free will who chose to not only dope and lie about it, but then solilcited funds from rubes to defend his lie. I have no sympathy for him, though I like it when rubes get screwed over.

The deterrant will happen when there is a fully independant single testing agency that does the testing and hands out the punishment. The way it is now is a joke, and the source of this whole issue.

 

[Susan Westemeyer]

What part of "stay on topic" do you all not understand?

I don't care in the least which side of this story you are on. Stay polite, don't troll, and stay on topic.

I have no compunction about handing out bans at this point.

Susan

 

[131313]

Tilford

a good response to the "why are we wasting time on this old new" nonsense:

http://stevetilford.com/?p=20021

 

[ManInFull]

Yes I read the letter. Why are you asking me such a simple question?
The thing is that the perception of a vendetta is real. It looks like someone within USADA has a personal beef with Lance. The federal authorities dropped the investigation and did not bring charges. Now another small time agency wants to get some attention and chase after the greatest Tour De France champion.

Floyd the liar. Tyler the druggie. I am not sure about any other names because USADA is such a corrupt orginization that they will not produce all the evidence to Lance.

This is what irritates me about posters like you. Do you know the difference between what the DOJ's investigation was and what the USADA investigation is? USADA isn't looking to prove that a federal crime occurred. It's looking for evidence of doping....That's a little easier to prove.

 

[MarkvW]

Lance invited the USADA investigation. And boy was he confident when he made the statement "I like our credibility."

Nobody has found (yet) that Lance was a part of a MASSIVE doping conspiracy--one that dwarfed even Festina . . . and Lance still has a chance to defend himself!

There's going to be a hearing! The truth will come out! Lance will get to defend himself! We can see the champion boldly refute the charges!

. . . against the ten (count 'em) former riders, other support staff, and other evidence.

Bwahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

This is what irritates me about posters like you. Do you know the difference between what the DOJ's investigation was and what the USADA investigation is? USADA isn't looking to prove that a federal crime occurred. It's looking for evidence of doping....That's a little easier to prove.

College is trolling. PLEASE STOP FEEDING THE TROLLS. Thanks.

 

[Benotti69]

college is trolling. Please stop feeding the trolls. Thanks.

+1000000000000000000000000

 

[VeloCity]

Exactly!

They say they're doing this to keep the sport of cycling clean, but all they're doing is brining more negativity into an already tainted image of cycling!

Leave Lance & focus on the here & now & stop bringing up a case thats already been dropped once...

They are focusing on the "here and now" by showing that it doesn't matter how big your name is or when it was you doped, we'll still get you if the evidence is available. It's a warning to all American athletes, big name or small.

Besides, what are they supposed to do, just ignore the evidence? If the public found out the USADA had a ****load of evidence that a big-name athlete was doping but chose to do nothing, it would completely destroy their credibility and reinforce the image that the big guys get away with what the little guys don't. How's that supposed to help cycling, knowing that an Armstrong can get away with doping but a Leogrande can't? Yeah, that'd be great.

 

[TourOfSardinia]

I liked that impact with the traffic circle in 2010. Classic.

+1

10 characters

 

[taiwan]

Wow I have never spoken to a whole country before.

Nobody here thinks people should not be punished for doing wrong. Without rules and punishment in society there would be chaos.

It is a question of diminishing returns. If you are good with the bull in a China closet (hope you are offended by that reference, taiwan) approach to punishment then that is your opinion.

Some of us believe that a little more tact could be more of a benefit than blind punishment for wrongdoing. This happens all the time, btw. You will understand why soon enough.

You're being very vague about the fearful consequences you're touting. It isn't complicated - the risk of discovery was there all the time. He gets caught - he gets sanctioned, eg by losing his Tour victories, his status. That's how it works.

 

[MarkvW]

+1000000000000000000000000

Nice input, Joe.